MonaLisaLu
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“Long-Haul Covid, can be treated. Here is a protocol, for just that. It may be helpful:
https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-recover-protocol/
Coronavirus
- Thread starter LilyJo
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Help Support Soapmaking Forum:
https://covid19criticalcare.com/covid-19-protocols/i-recover-protocol/
For those with COVID or long COVID, this website is very interesting.
This is what failed leadership causes
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/13/us/coronavirus-hospitals-washington-idaho.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/13/us/coronavirus-hospitals-washington-idaho.html
rdc1978
Well-Known Member
As an addendum, apparently Washington hospitals aren't obligated to take out of state patients. Its at the discretion of each hospital.
https://www.king5.com/article/news/...tals/281-e40b932b-aadb-4b1b-a7cd-d66f46700ea3
Right. The Spokane-Coeur d'Alene area is almost one metro though, and Spokane is the regional mega hospital that Kootenai county and north Idaho sends to for things they can't do. Big trauma, cardiac, burns etc. So Spokane feels a responsibility to the cross border hospitals that are not as well equipped.
Idaho being an irresponsible punk though is hurting Washington over and above that.
The failed leadership is at a much higher level than local and state governments.
For some reason, the US federal government and the non-governmental entities such as the CDC and WHO will not accept the overwhelming data from other countries that Ivermectin is a very effective treatment for every stage of COVID19, including early stage, advanced stage, and long-haulers. The same folks that cry "racist!" at every turn have condescendingly said that the data showing how it worked in these "poor" countries cannot be expected to work the same in the US.
They ignore the similarly strong data that HCQ + zinc is effective for early stage treatment.
They ignore the data from the very robust Israeli study showing that natural immunity is more effective than any vaccine alone.
What kind of government leaders would rather get into a big political fight to push vaccines as the only solution, rather than listening to front-line doctors and "poor" countries (India, Paraguay, Peru) that have had to find non-vaccine solutions?
What kind of government leaders would rather see hospitals get overwhelmed, and people continue to die, rather than aggressively pursuing early testing, early treatment, and antibody testing, along with vaccine programs?
Please don't say "we need randomized controlled double-blind studies." Of course we do! But in the meantime, we should be treating folks with whatever shows itself to be effective right now. To do otherwise is highly unethical.
For some reason, the US federal government and the non-governmental entities such as the CDC and WHO will not accept the overwhelming data from other countries that Ivermectin is a very effective treatment for every stage of COVID19, including early stage, advanced stage, and long-haulers. The same folks that cry "racist!" at every turn have condescendingly said that the data showing how it worked in these "poor" countries cannot be expected to work the same in the US.
They ignore the similarly strong data that HCQ + zinc is effective for early stage treatment.
They ignore the data from the very robust Israeli study showing that natural immunity is more effective than any vaccine alone.
What kind of government leaders would rather get into a big political fight to push vaccines as the only solution, rather than listening to front-line doctors and "poor" countries (India, Paraguay, Peru) that have had to find non-vaccine solutions?
What kind of government leaders would rather see hospitals get overwhelmed, and people continue to die, rather than aggressively pursuing early testing, early treatment, and antibody testing, along with vaccine programs?
Please don't say "we need randomized controlled double-blind studies." Of course we do! But in the meantime, we should be treating folks with whatever shows itself to be effective right now. To do otherwise is highly unethical.
No. Just no. You're either badly misled or very irresponsible to spread that.
Ivermectin IS NOT effective as any kind of treatment for Covid. It's just not.
There are no hidden or suppressed real studies that show otherwise.
I don't know why people fall for this when there's an easy, safe, free preventative. Vaccines work.
Even our knucklehead governor admits that.
This kind of misinformation gets to me.
There is NO good evidence for either ivermectin nor hcq in whatever form. If there was, it would be used. The articles that claim to see improvement with either drug are of poor quality (not because they are done in poor countries, but because there's no blinding, different protocols are mixed, etc..), the better quality studies don't show an effect of these drugs.
Even if immunity after infection would protect better than immunity after vaccination (which cannot be concluded based on only a single preprint article), that's still not a reason to go seek out infection and hope it gets cured with drugs (of which we have no proper evidence that they work, and we still don't know the full scope of long-term effects from covid). Do you really want to risk all the side effects of covid so you'll hopefully be immune afterwards (hopefully, because some studies also showed that some previously infected people had a worse infection the second time around)? Also, the Israeli article states that infection+vaccination offers the best protection, so even if you'd get infected you still need to get vaccinated.
There's a Dutch saying "preventing is better than curing" and that's what vaccines do. It's not like this is the first time we've had to avert a health crisis with vaccines. This is exactly what vaccines were meant to do, which is why they are the first choice now. Early testing, prevention of spreading and (science based) treatment are definitely needed to help, but vaccines are the basis.
As I mentioned before, here in Belgium there's a big difference in vaccination rate between the Dutch speaking part (90% of adults) and the capital (62% of adults). At the moment most restrictions are lifted nationwide (clubs are still closed, festivals require testing or proof of vaccination, masks here and there... that's about it). In the Dutch speaking part there are only a handful of covid patients in each hospital (0-15 patients overall in the hospitals that I've been in contact with lately), meanwhile the hospitals in the capital area are overflowing with unvaccinated covid patients. Soon patients will be transferred from the capital area to here, meaning ICU's will get full again and elective treatments will get pushed back again. That means that other people will need to wait to get the treatment they need, which could lead to long-term consequences for them. As soon as your "freedom" to not listen to the majority of medical professionals gets in the way of other people's access to health care, something is very wrong on an ethical level.
There is NO good evidence for either ivermectin nor hcq in whatever form. If there was, it would be used. The articles that claim to see improvement with either drug are of poor quality (not because they are done in poor countries, but because there's no blinding, different protocols are mixed, etc..), the better quality studies don't show an effect of these drugs.
Even if immunity after infection would protect better than immunity after vaccination (which cannot be concluded based on only a single preprint article), that's still not a reason to go seek out infection and hope it gets cured with drugs (of which we have no proper evidence that they work, and we still don't know the full scope of long-term effects from covid). Do you really want to risk all the side effects of covid so you'll hopefully be immune afterwards (hopefully, because some studies also showed that some previously infected people had a worse infection the second time around)? Also, the Israeli article states that infection+vaccination offers the best protection, so even if you'd get infected you still need to get vaccinated.
There's a Dutch saying "preventing is better than curing" and that's what vaccines do. It's not like this is the first time we've had to avert a health crisis with vaccines. This is exactly what vaccines were meant to do, which is why they are the first choice now. Early testing, prevention of spreading and (science based) treatment are definitely needed to help, but vaccines are the basis.
As I mentioned before, here in Belgium there's a big difference in vaccination rate between the Dutch speaking part (90% of adults) and the capital (62% of adults). At the moment most restrictions are lifted nationwide (clubs are still closed, festivals require testing or proof of vaccination, masks here and there... that's about it). In the Dutch speaking part there are only a handful of covid patients in each hospital (0-15 patients overall in the hospitals that I've been in contact with lately), meanwhile the hospitals in the capital area are overflowing with unvaccinated covid patients. Soon patients will be transferred from the capital area to here, meaning ICU's will get full again and elective treatments will get pushed back again. That means that other people will need to wait to get the treatment they need, which could lead to long-term consequences for them. As soon as your "freedom" to not listen to the majority of medical professionals gets in the way of other people's access to health care, something is very wrong on an ethical level.
The vaccine works, I get it. I don't question it, even in the face of Delta. However in a group of 57 there were 6 lawmakers out of Texas (the ones who left in protest) who got COVID. That's a significant breakthrough rate. We shouldn't be relying on a vaccine to keep ourselves safe. I mask up, I avoid public gatherings, and I take my health seriously. I'd appreciate if our leadership would advocate the same, and do the same (looking at you Governor Newsome). Thank goodness for the very astute people in Massachusetts who were a part of a breakthrough event and took the time to gather info and present their case to the CDC. The vaccines are not perfect, not a panacea, they are simply part of the solution. Anyone relying on the govt at this point for their health is placing themselves at risk as far as I'm concerned.
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However, how many of them were hospitalized? None.
THAT is the point of the vaccine. It is not to prevent anyone from getting sick (with an RNA virus, it mutates so fast that people will get sick from variants too quickly to develop vaccines for every last variant), it is to keep people out of the hospitals and prevent deaths. With the vaccine, you have SOME immunity to that germ, and that helps keep you from overwhelming the hospital with one more person that is going to potentially die from this virus.
Also, how many of them used masks on their various modes of transport? None of them that got sick. There is photographic proof.
Well, I got dose # 3 yesterday. They would not administer to Hubby, so he has to wait (he is not immunocompromised). I was disappointed that we couldn't get our 3rd dose at the same time, but it is what it is and I guess we will just carry on as we have.
I agree, @Johnez, that if we depend on only one thing and ignore all other precautions, we are taking undue risks. The fact that NO VACCINE EVER has been 100% effective 100% of the time seems to evade far too many people. To expect NO ONE who is vaccinated will ever get sick is unrealistic, just as to going to a gunfight bare-chested and without armor, carrying only a baton is unrealistic.
So in conjunction with my annual pneumonia vaccine, I also practice good hygiene, I don't smoke, I maintain a healthy lifestyle via diet & exercise, paying particular attention to exercise lung capacity, I avoid being around people who are coughing whenever possible. Another precaution to prevent pneumonia is to not drink (alcohol or alcoholically), but since I already don't, I did not list that as one of my actions.
Anyway, Good for you for continuing to wear a mask and avoiding large gatherings. It gets lonely sometimes, I know. So far, I have been fortunate, in spite of being immunocompromised, but I do diligently mask up when I am around people other than my closest family, who I know take the same precautions as I, so I feel safe with them most of the time. My husband works with the public and we talked about the precautions to take when the pandemic started. He follows the same kinds of procedures I was taught in nursing school: change out of work clothes immediately upon returning home and thoroughly wash up before contact with anyone at home. He often does his own laundry as well, although on occasion I will do it myself, but I also take precautions then as well.
I have not completely avoided large crowds, but I do maintain a good distance and wear a mask when in those crowds, even when outdoors. Hubby & I are going to attend a Dead & Company concert next month with my son, DIL & granddaughter. I do have to frequently remind granddaughter to lift the mask back up over her nose, but she always follows my instruction when I do, so I feel safe enough with her as well. When CoVid broke out, she & I were sharing space in a tiny house in San Antonio and neither of us has yet to infect the other.
Hubby & I celebrated our wedding anniversary this past week-end with a trip to Chicago, and one of the things that I saw that concerns me as much as mask wearing and vaccination rates was a woman at the hotel breakfast buffet who filled her water bottle from the drink dispenser, and pushed the lip of the bottle all the way up against the mechanism where the water comes out. I said to her, 'When you fill your used water bottle with the bottle top touching the dispenser like that, you are contaminating the machine making it unsafe for any other person to use afterward.' She replied something I didn't quite hear, and just went on filling her bottle to the top. Even if she had pulled it away, I still would have done what I did next, because it was already contaminated by her lips having been on her water bottle before it was up against the dispenser tip. I went to the Hotel employee overseeing the buffet and told him what had happened because now the tips would have to be de-contaminated. He thanked me and immediately went to de-contaminate the machine. And he returned to thank me again. I am sure the hotel does not want to have to be known as a place where any disease spread by virtue of one self-centered thoughtless and uncaring person.
Good hygiene entails a lot more than wearing a mask and maintaining a safe distance from others. I sometimes wonder why some people are so uncaring or oblivious to all the rest of what can cause the spread of disease and think only of immediate self-gratification at the expense of others.
I agree, @Johnez, that if we depend on only one thing and ignore all other precautions, we are taking undue risks. The fact that NO VACCINE EVER has been 100% effective 100% of the time seems to evade far too many people. To expect NO ONE who is vaccinated will ever get sick is unrealistic, just as to going to a gunfight bare-chested and without armor, carrying only a baton is unrealistic.
So in conjunction with my annual pneumonia vaccine, I also practice good hygiene, I don't smoke, I maintain a healthy lifestyle via diet & exercise, paying particular attention to exercise lung capacity, I avoid being around people who are coughing whenever possible. Another precaution to prevent pneumonia is to not drink (alcohol or alcoholically), but since I already don't, I did not list that as one of my actions.
Anyway, Good for you for continuing to wear a mask and avoiding large gatherings. It gets lonely sometimes, I know. So far, I have been fortunate, in spite of being immunocompromised, but I do diligently mask up when I am around people other than my closest family, who I know take the same precautions as I, so I feel safe with them most of the time. My husband works with the public and we talked about the precautions to take when the pandemic started. He follows the same kinds of procedures I was taught in nursing school: change out of work clothes immediately upon returning home and thoroughly wash up before contact with anyone at home. He often does his own laundry as well, although on occasion I will do it myself, but I also take precautions then as well.
I have not completely avoided large crowds, but I do maintain a good distance and wear a mask when in those crowds, even when outdoors. Hubby & I are going to attend a Dead & Company concert next month with my son, DIL & granddaughter. I do have to frequently remind granddaughter to lift the mask back up over her nose, but she always follows my instruction when I do, so I feel safe enough with her as well. When CoVid broke out, she & I were sharing space in a tiny house in San Antonio and neither of us has yet to infect the other.
Hubby & I celebrated our wedding anniversary this past week-end with a trip to Chicago, and one of the things that I saw that concerns me as much as mask wearing and vaccination rates was a woman at the hotel breakfast buffet who filled her water bottle from the drink dispenser, and pushed the lip of the bottle all the way up against the mechanism where the water comes out. I said to her, 'When you fill your used water bottle with the bottle top touching the dispenser like that, you are contaminating the machine making it unsafe for any other person to use afterward.' She replied something I didn't quite hear, and just went on filling her bottle to the top. Even if she had pulled it away, I still would have done what I did next, because it was already contaminated by her lips having been on her water bottle before it was up against the dispenser tip. I went to the Hotel employee overseeing the buffet and told him what had happened because now the tips would have to be de-contaminated. He thanked me and immediately went to de-contaminate the machine. And he returned to thank me again. I am sure the hotel does not want to have to be known as a place where any disease spread by virtue of one self-centered thoughtless and uncaring person.
Good hygiene entails a lot more than wearing a mask and maintaining a safe distance from others. I sometimes wonder why some people are so uncaring or oblivious to all the rest of what can cause the spread of disease and think only of immediate self-gratification at the expense of others.
Yes....that is one of the things that bothered me. People took the vaccine as "the answer," yay no more masks! Now people are still getting sick and the story is you can't expect the shot to prevent every case. I agree, but there should have been a more cautious messaging, now people here are going to have their freedoms yanked back once again. I think it was very irresponsible to use "no masks" as a carrot for taking the vaccine. We shouldn't have let our guard down until the virus was either eradicated or a surefire treatment option was developed. The vaccine requires a massive buy-in and we're just not at herd immunity yet.
rdc1978
Well-Known Member
I feel like the message was always that the vaccine offered less immunity against the delta variant.
I think your point about stopping masking and social distancing too soon is fair.
But I also think that people in particular areas and with a particular mindset already weren't masking and weren't social distancing. So, if that's the case, what good was the guidance doing?
However I think it was naive to imagine that saying vaccinated people could do x,y and z in tbe hopes of encouraging more vaccinations was a mistake. I dont think that really changed enough minds to warrant the risk.
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Even though I have a comorbidity, I am vaccinated and fear less for my life. It's the long covid that really worries me because there are SO many people I know who have had terrible health issues from it (before the Delta variant). 17 people -16 of whom are under 50, 8 of whom are under 32, 4. of whom are kids were under 16 at the time (not including my 13 year olds' friends), are facing things like hip replacements, kidney disease to the point of needing transplant, lung and heart disease - some to the point of needing transplants, and strokes and brain/memory/learning issues. What so many people don't understand is that this is far more a vascular disease because of the thousands of minuscule blood clots covid causes, and how it attacks the endothelial cells of (especially) blood vessels and arteries.
And I can't forget the psychological toll; one of those kids is a 9 year old neighbor who caught covid last spring at school, which spread to his family, killing his father, his mother was ill for several months (she' much better now) He blames himself for his father's death and tried to kill himself.
And I certainly don't want to be hospitalized/ventilated; the number of ventilator narcosis experiences from ventilation are terrifying. These people are traumatized, even brain damaged for life! I am definitely considering having the booster shot, and have made diet and other health improvements.
The number of people I've known (or even heard of - friend of a friend sort of thing) in my entire life who've been disabled or died from the flu = 1.
I live in Texas, and let's just say my opinion about masks and social distancing are not in line with our esteemed governor. And you don't even want to know my reaction when the "guidance" about what vaccinated people could or could not do came out. Let's just say that I have NOT stopped wearing my mask, even though I have had 2 vaccines. I am going for my booster in a week or so, my doctor did not want to overlap the Pneumovax 23 and co-vid vaccines.
Folks, this virus is going to be around forever in one form or another. Our hope is that we can get to the point that we just go for our yearly vaccine like the flu. The CDC and WHO are going to be doing "best guesses" on which variants to vaccinate for each year. And until then, we are going to be having outbreaks. We just need as many people as possible to get some immunity so that it no longer overwhelms our hospitals and funeral homes. Until then, I'm going to be wearing my mask and signing up for every vaccine they let me have.
I saw a waitress refill a tea glass while resting the side of the pitcher on the rim of the glass. I talked to the manager at that location and asked if that was SOP. He said yes. I told him we were done eating there. Then I reported that location to their corporate people. We shall see what their response is.
I will be either bringing my own iced tea to restaurants or only ordering bottled water until this gets better.
Shocking. That really is wrong. You should also report it to the County Health Department. I doubt very much that is acceptable practice per the Food Handlers Certification course. According to Texas law, all food employees are required to have a Food Handlers Certificate within 60 days of employment. I don't know if the online courses (as little as $7.00 fee) are intensive enough to cover such detail, or if indeed everyone pays close attention to what they are supposed to learn and practice, but Health Dept. should be inspecting that restaurant at least annually & if they see that kind of practice, should be citing it as a violation.
At least that is my experience with food handling. We owned a restaurant for awhile after I retired and the Health Dept. here is adamant about such things. But of course, what is taught is not always what is practiced, as we well know.
That is why I started with the manager. The fact that he did not have a problem with it is what alarmed me. Our state/county health dept here is ... not very effective or efficient ... at taking care of some truly egregious violations in our area. I am not going to elaborate as to why I think that is, but I suspect you can probably fill in the options.
If I don't hear back from upper management, it won't change a thing for me, because I am not going back. You can't pay me enough.
Is this a matter of the pitcher touching the glass? I'm curious as my SO worked with food and took it VERY seriously, I've learned a lot from her. She would point out all sorts of stuff at restaurants I wouldn't have even noticed.
DKing
Well-Known Member
I am thinking since it is a refill happening, that the pitcher rim is touching the glass where people's mouths have touched.....then the pitcher would move on to the next glass, potentially spreading the germs from glass to glass which goes directly to a person's mouth. Definitely not hygienic!
I take this pandemic very seriously so I don’t want to imply that I don’t; however, if I were that concerned about germs, (which are inevitably everywhere), I probably wouldn’t be going out to eat at all. I mean, realistically, we have no idea what goes on in the kitchen, or anywhere out of our sight for that matter.
