It was about patients in Belgium, but the mechanism is probably the same as in India
There was an interview with a man who only survived because they thought to check for a very common type of mold that otherwise wouldn't have made him sick.
Coronavirus
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There was an interview with a man who only survived because they thought to check for a very common type of mold that otherwise wouldn't have made him sick.
So the local news has been making a huge deal about how the hospitals being "overrun" with "unvaccinated" Covid patients and how many [needful] surgeries are being delayed because there isn't enough room.
Then it comes out that our hospitals don't even have enough beds to begin with; the national average is 4 beds per 1000 and we only have 1 bed per 1000. So there is already a problem with scheduling these surgeries. As of the 24th of August, there were approximately 1000 Covid patients with a quarter of them in ICU...in the entire state of 4.7 million people.
They've also gone from reporting the total number/percentage of eligible folks who are vaccinated, to reporting the total number/percentage of total population who are vaccinated. We were at 67% when it was over 18 and are at 64% now that we are including everyone.
The State has currently mandated vaccinations for all healthcare workers and teachers...or be fired. The City of Portland just mandated vaccinations for all city employees...or be fired. I have no doubt that more cities (and companies) will be doing the same and/or that the State will be requiring other workers to be vaccinated.
Now you can still get a medical or religious exemption, but the standards are going to incredibly tough. It won't be enough to get a statement from your doctor saying that you can't have the vaccine...no, you will need to reveal whatever medical condition that it is that you have and then it will be up to the employer (State, City, company) to determine if it is valid. As for religion...I know that in the State of Washington, you have to prove that you have never been vaccinated or received medication...I'm sure Oregon will follow.
Then it comes out that our hospitals don't even have enough beds to begin with; the national average is 4 beds per 1000 and we only have 1 bed per 1000. So there is already a problem with scheduling these surgeries. As of the 24th of August, there were approximately 1000 Covid patients with a quarter of them in ICU...in the entire state of 4.7 million people.
They've also gone from reporting the total number/percentage of eligible folks who are vaccinated, to reporting the total number/percentage of total population who are vaccinated. We were at 67% when it was over 18 and are at 64% now that we are including everyone.
The State has currently mandated vaccinations for all healthcare workers and teachers...or be fired. The City of Portland just mandated vaccinations for all city employees...or be fired. I have no doubt that more cities (and companies) will be doing the same and/or that the State will be requiring other workers to be vaccinated.
Now you can still get a medical or religious exemption, but the standards are going to incredibly tough. It won't be enough to get a statement from your doctor saying that you can't have the vaccine...no, you will need to reveal whatever medical condition that it is that you have and then it will be up to the employer (State, City, company) to determine if it is valid. As for religion...I know that in the State of Washington, you have to prove that you have never been vaccinated or received medication...I'm sure Oregon will follow.
At least two university professors have sued and won the right not to vaccinate, based on their existing immunity. This is consistent with a new study from Israel that shows that those with natural immunity due to having contracted and recovered from COVID have significantly better immunity than those who have been vaccinated.
The issue is, the average person cannot locate an immunity testing center, let alone pay for the cost, which is not covered by insurance.
This just fries me. Yes, let's develop vaccines that work, by all means.... but not to the exclusion of aggressively pursuing effective early treatment options that can bring down hospitalization rates, as well as post-recovery research regarding natural immunity. We need the whole package, not just one piece of it.
The issue is, the average person cannot locate an immunity testing center, let alone pay for the cost, which is not covered by insurance.
This just fries me. Yes, let's develop vaccines that work, by all means.... but not to the exclusion of aggressively pursuing effective early treatment options that can bring down hospitalization rates, as well as post-recovery research regarding natural immunity. We need the whole package, not just one piece of it.
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I had my 2nd shot yesterday and it was in the muscle.
Wow, different countries! News to me. I thought everyone gave them the same way. I definitely got mine in the SQ (subcutaneous), I asked and checked the needle.
Here is a link that shows the varying locations in the arm: https://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p2020.pdf
1. "This is consistent with a new study from Israel that shows that those with natural immunity due to having contracted and recovered from COVID have significantly better immunity than those who have been vaccinated." One study does not indicate much. Most countries are studying this very question. I will wait until we have more studies before deciding one way or the other. Currently in the US, the best practice is considered for those who have had Co-vid to wait 90 days before taking the vaccines. I think the thought process is that the vaccines provide a booster for the immunity people already developed, much like we are expecting boosters for those of us who have already had vaccines. The issue is that the body starts "forgetting" that germ within a few months if it is not backed up by boosters. Several children's vaccines have boosters for the same reason. But once you expose the body to that 2-3 times, it really starts to remember them much better.
2. Define "early treatment options".
Coronavirus hit close to home this week. We went to a wedding last Sunday which had originally been planned for 2020. It was at a brewery and took place outdoors. My wife and I and several others were masked the entire time. One side of the brewery had large garage doors that were open. It was very breezy.
Wednesday we found out that several guests were positive and at least one was symptomatic. My wife and I were not worried but we still scrambled to find a rapid test before we had to report to work. Thankfully we are negative. One of my cousins, vaccinated, is positive which hopefully means no symptoms or mild symptoms. I've gone back to curbside pickup, and added a face shield in addition to my mask. I'm not sure about hugging my elderly dad this weekend, maybe a quick one.
Wednesday we found out that several guests were positive and at least one was symptomatic. My wife and I were not worried but we still scrambled to find a rapid test before we had to report to work. Thankfully we are negative. One of my cousins, vaccinated, is positive which hopefully means no symptoms or mild symptoms. I've gone back to curbside pickup, and added a face shield in addition to my mask. I'm not sure about hugging my elderly dad this weekend, maybe a quick one.
We just had our State Fair. Despite the mask mandate, required for all indoor public buildings and large outdoor gatherings, at least 2/3s, based on photographs, weren't wearing masks. One lady that was interviewed said she wasn't wearing a mask because she was fully vaccinated and wasn't that the purpose for insisting folks get vaccinated? She's not wrong...that was the original sales pitch...once you were vaccinated, you didn't have to wear a mask anymore, you could gather with friends and family in all sorts of numbers.
The Delta variant has been around for several months now...you'd think they'd have a vaccine for it by now given the speed in which the first vaccine was developed. Yes, I'm being a bit factious, but you can't have you cake and eat it too..
I got mine in the muscle too
a friend works in the field and told me ahead about the blood vessel issue
so i asked them to aspirate the needle
the first trainee nurse didnt know what it meant and the senior doctor said aspiration is not standard practice and they dont teach it anymore
i was told that the needle length was designed to reach the muscle
and the location was chosen to avoid larger blood vessels
a friend works in the field and told me ahead about the blood vessel issue
so i asked them to aspirate the needle
the first trainee nurse didnt know what it meant and the senior doctor said aspiration is not standard practice and they dont teach it anymore
i was told that the needle length was designed to reach the muscle
and the location was chosen to avoid larger blood vessels
Your link shows the various locations for IM (Intramuscular) injections, which is the correct route of administration. I have attached excerpts from the Epocrates drug formulary also stating the intramuscular route of administration. health professionals already know to aspirate for blood and redirect the needle if a there’s + blood aspirate for any injection they give.
Attachments
Kari you have given two images that are the same
neither has the information you mentioned
neither has the information you mentioned
Doctors rarely give injections instead leaving it to the nurses.
They both say “IM” which means Intramuscular as opposed to “SQ” which means Subcutaneous (fat).
Maybe I misunderstood. Are you looking for information on injection technique, i.e., to aspirate or not aspirate?
Dang!
They both say “IM” which means Intramuscular as opposed to “SQ” which means Subcutaneous (fat).
Maybe I misunderstood. Are you looking for information on injection technique, i.e., to aspirate or not aspirate?
Wrt injections and fear of blood clots: I, like many hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Americans with pernicious anemia, receive monthly injections of cyanocobalamin (B-12). I'm unaware of any of us ever getting anything more than the occasional goose egg.
And that's pretty good, considering that it's very very common for us to self administer.
That's right, thousands of non medical personnel giving ourselves monthly injections with no ill effects from the action of injecting medicine with a needle.
Imagine then how much *less* risk to people receiving vaccine injections from trained medical professionals.
And that's pretty good, considering that it's very very common for us to self administer.
That's right, thousands of non medical personnel giving ourselves monthly injections with no ill effects from the action of injecting medicine with a needle.
Imagine then how much *less* risk to people receiving vaccine injections from trained medical professionals.
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I asked because of your post and definitely no. I had trouble with the first one with a lump the size of a tennis ball in circumference, with a smaller lump at the injection site, it was there for 2 months so the doctor used a 38mm needle instead of a 25mm needle and went in on an angle instead of putting it in like a dart. She also let the area swabbed, dry, before injecting. She could also see where the other injection had gone in, which was after 12 wks. Out of the 4-500 covid shots she had given at the time of my first shot, I was the only one that happened to - just my luck. So today, 1 1/2 days later, no lump and no problems.
Not here, no nurses in my GP's practice, only doctors. My GP has given me all necessary injections.
rdc1978
Well-Known Member
Good on you for wearing a mask. I remember a few "super spreader" events that were outside prior to the vaccine.
At this point it seems to be about taking calculated risks and mitigating as much risk as you can.
I went to see HAMILTON yesterday (amazing!). It was a risk to go to any show indoors. But, there was active risk mitigation.
You had to show proof of vaccination and wear a mask throughout the entire show. And no bandanas or gators, it had to be an actual mask.
There was still a risk, but I've been waiting to see this show for over a year and I felt better with the rules and their enforcement.
I'm frustrated. I was at a party yesterday with a lot of unvaxxed people, almost nobody was wearing a mask except me and another woman who wasn't vaccinated, very scared, but really wanted to be there for the person throwing the party. I was encouraged to take off my mask "for my own health". One person told me we're not 100% sure that the coronavirus causes covid-19, because there haven't been any clinical trials where unknowing humans were injected with the virus to see if they got sick. Could you imagine living in a place where research like that could be done
A recent study in Belgium found that unvaccinated individuals had more 'risk contacts' than vaccinated individuals and I think I saw how that could be. It's pretty infuriating, considering the strain the hospitals have been under for the past year and a half.
Out of sheer annoyance I feel compelled to post screen shots comparing the adult vaccination rate and 14-day cumulative incidence in Belgium, where it's pretty obvious that VACCINES WORK. Most places that are lighter on the vaccination map are darker on the incidence map.
Here's the vaccination rate.....................And cumulative incidence next to it.
Source: Sciensano
https://datastudio.google.com/embed/reporting/c14a5cfc-cab7-4812-848c-0369173148ab/page/Ut2EChttps://datastudio.google.com/embed/reporting/c14a5cfc-cab7-4812-848c-0369173148ab/page/giyUB
Sorry for the rant...
A recent study in Belgium found that unvaccinated individuals had more 'risk contacts' than vaccinated individuals and I think I saw how that could be. It's pretty infuriating, considering the strain the hospitals have been under for the past year and a half.
Out of sheer annoyance I feel compelled to post screen shots comparing the adult vaccination rate and 14-day cumulative incidence in Belgium, where it's pretty obvious that VACCINES WORK. Most places that are lighter on the vaccination map are darker on the incidence map.
Here's the vaccination rate.....................And cumulative incidence next to it.
Source: Sciensano
https://datastudio.google.com/embed/reporting/c14a5cfc-cab7-4812-848c-0369173148ab/page/Ut2EChttps://datastudio.google.com/embed/reporting/c14a5cfc-cab7-4812-848c-0369173148ab/page/giyUB
Sorry for the rant...
I know we don't agree on many things in this thread, but I wholeheartedly agree with this. Anything that can be done to minimize negative effects of covid-19 should be explored and exploited once proven effective. I'd also be very interested in a link or reference to the Israeli study you mentioned. I read a study that seemed to suggest the complete opposite, so it'd be interesting to compare
Orebma
Well-Known Member
Totaly agree - natural immunity is better than vacc immunity. I'm not pro or anti vacc - I'm pro-choice. It's interesting that some indigenous peoples would intentionally go to the home of a person - with a disease with their children - in order to expose them to it. Obviously many got the sickness and once recovered had natural immunity to it. That worked fine until the Spanish Flu, which decimated whole communities of native people. Certainly a topsy turvy world we're living in at the moment
Sorry, haven't been able to keep up as much lately with this thread but did find the link to the Israeli study.
It makes sense that your body would create more antibodies when you have the germs sitting in your system for more than a week rather than one injection. And they still recommend a follow up vaccine to those that had the actual illness.
Actually, no, natural immunity from infection with Covid is not as strong as that from vaccination. Especially Delta.:
"A Note to Those who are Confused, Afraid or just Uncertain about Whether to Get the COVID Vaccine – Dr. Pate’s blog
While having COVID does provide some degree of immune protection against re-infection for most, but certainly not all, persons, there is growing evidence that the degree of immune protection is inferior to that provided by vaccines. As we see more and more variants of concern, we have less and less confidence that natural infection will provide people the same degree of immune protection that the vaccine will. Therefore, we recommend that everyone who has previously had COVID get vaccinated once they recover from their illness."
https://drpatesblog.com/2021/07/25/...rtain-about-whether-to-get-the-covid-vaccine/
"A Note to Those who are Confused, Afraid or just Uncertain about Whether to Get the COVID Vaccine – Dr. Pate’s blog
While having COVID does provide some degree of immune protection against re-infection for most, but certainly not all, persons, there is growing evidence that the degree of immune protection is inferior to that provided by vaccines. As we see more and more variants of concern, we have less and less confidence that natural infection will provide people the same degree of immune protection that the vaccine will. Therefore, we recommend that everyone who has previously had COVID get vaccinated once they recover from their illness."
https://drpatesblog.com/2021/07/25/...rtain-about-whether-to-get-the-covid-vaccine/
