Spring Craft Fair_ Keep my Mouth Shut Nope

[shunt2011]

I understand that in the states you are not allowed to make any claims just that soap is soap and cleans.

However if you are selling at a fair and someone approaches your stall asking if you sell anything for eczema etc are you allowed to tell them a particular soap has worked for your daughter/niece etc as long as you state whilst it has worked for them you cannot guarantee it will work for everyone?

Simple answer is no. We cannot say any such thing. That would still be making claims. I'm sure some will stretch that a bit though. Sometimes it's so difficult not to say anything.

 

[happyshopper]

Simple answer is no. We cannot say any such thing. That would still be making claims. I'm sure some will stretch that a bit though. Sometimes it's so difficult not to say anything.

Thanks thats interesting. So every answer question you are asked about such things you have to reply "I can only say it cleans!" Thats harsh especially if the person next door is claiming their soap cures all.

At least with the EU regulations they are easily checked one seller can inform on another seller and a check can be made if they are allowed to sell. Unless you have a tape recorder how are you suppose to prove that a seller is making these claims.

 

[kchaystack]

Thanks thats interesting. So every answer question you are asked about such things you have to reply "I can only say it cleans!" Thats harsh especially if the person next door is claiming their soap cures all.

At least with the EU regulations they are easily checked one seller can inform on another seller and a check can be made if they are allowed to sell. Unless you have a tape recorder how are you suppose to prove that a seller is making these claims.

Even with that kind of proof you are not going to get much reaction out of the FDA. They do not have the man-power or the budget to investigate. I have seen several stories where responsible soapers have made complaints to about others making a claim, only to be told there was nothing that could be done.

Where it might come in to play is if someone is injured by the soap and files a civil suit. Then they might be able to get enough traction to have an investigation.

 

[shunt2011]

Unfortunately not only do they tell customers what miracles their soaps/products can perform but they generally have signs touting their miracle cures as well. We could report them but I'm sure that would take all kinds of time.

 

[happyshopper]

Have you thought about putting a sign/notice on your stall something along the lines of

Customers please note: In the US there are laws regarding selling soap (you could state the act to make it sound more official), a seller is not allowed to make any claims other than it cleans. If a seller is making claims in addition to this they need to hold a valid cosmetics licence (or whatever it is). I do not make any claims that break the law, I label my soaps with the ingredients so my customers can see what they contain to enable them to make their own informed decision on what they think would best suit their requirements.
Please do not ask me questions about the abilities of my soap as I cannot answer them without breaking the law, if you choose to purchase from a seller who will answer these questions and makes claims that their soap cures .........etc please ask them to produce a copy of the relevant licence that enables them to make these claims.
Sellers that break the law are taking business away for those who work within it. I am not asking you to buy my soaps but am kindly requesting that you purchase from a seller who sells within the law.

ok so that turned out to be a bit of an essay! but you get my point maybe a short statement along those lines which you could put on display discreetly.

 

[kchaystack]

As I understand it claiming that your soap just cleans means that you have no requirements to label ingredients and such. If you claim your soap moisturizes, smoothes, or the like, it becomes a cosmetic, and you must follow the FDA regulations for listing ingredients. If you make claims that it cures anything then it becomes a medicine, and that has a whole other set of requirements.

Is that right?

 

[cmzaha]

As I understand it claiming that your soap just cleans means that you have no requirements to label ingredients and such. If you claim your soap moisturizes, smoothes, or the like, it becomes a cosmetic, and you must follow the FDA regulations for listing ingredients. If you make claims that it cures anything then it becomes a medicine, and that has a whole other set of requirements.

Is that right?

Yes, but customers do appreciate labeled soaps. I label all as if they are a cosmetic.

 

[kchaystack]

Yes, but customers do appreciate labeled soaps. I label all as if they are a cosmetic.

Oh, I believe you, and I always label the soap I give away like that also. I just wanted to make sure I understood the rules so I can explain them to people.

 

[dosco]

As I understand it claiming that your soap just cleans means that you have no requirements to label ingredients and such.

I don't know. The webpage with the definition of soap states that it can only be made of "salts of fatty acids." It also states that it can only be labeled as "soap" ... my interpretation is that you'd have to have a label that 1) identifies the product as "soap", and 2) identifies the ingredients (which can only be salts of fatty acids).

But I don't sell ... so ... take it for what its worth.

-Dave

 

[Cjchrissy]

I think you might be able to say, it is said that in the 1900s people used the ingredients in this soap to cure skin sores. You are putting the owners on the purchaser and its up to them to make a decision and do their research. It's pretty lax where I live, an isolated community of 12,000 and the farmers market isn't monitered. One thing I would list on my soaps that it may contain nuts oils, just in case cross contamination...

 

[shunt2011]

I don't know. The webpage with the definition of soap states that it can only be made of "salts of fatty acids." It also states that it can only be labeled as "soap" ... my interpretation is that you'd have to have a label that 1) identifies the product as "soap", and 2) identifies the ingredients (which can only be salts of fatty acids).

But I don't sell ... so ... take it for what its worth.

-Dave

Nope, if you are only selling as soap you don't need to even label it. I choose to so that customers can see what's in them just in case of allergies etc. Plus, I think labeled soaps look nice and professional.

 

[FlybyStardancer]

I think you might be able to say, it is said that in the 1900s people used the ingredients in this soap to cure skin sores.

Nope, you can't say that because then you're making a claim by association.

 

[shunt2011]

I think you might be able to say, it is said that in the 1900s people used the ingredients in this soap to cure skin sores. You are putting the owners on the purchaser and its up to them to make a decision and do their research. It's pretty lax where I live, an isolated community of 12,000 and the farmers market isn't monitered. One thing I would list on my soaps that it may contain nuts oils, just in case cross contamination...

Unfortunately you can't say anything like that. Even if something was used in to heal/cure something in the 1800's you cannot make reference to it.

There's a women at my farmer's market who does that and it frustrates me to no end. I even heard her say it cure foot fungus.

 

[Gren]

Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought you could mention the ingredients, for instance lavender EO and say something like "Lavender EO has been shown to..."; essentially insinuating that your product can do something without actually saying it does. But yeah, unless you have clinical data to back up your product claims, you can't say "My soap cures eczema" or anything to that effect.

 

[cmzaha]

Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought you could mention the ingredients, for instance lavender EO and say something like "Lavender EO has been shown to..."; essentially insinuating that your product can do something without actually saying it does. But yeah, unless you have clinical data to back up your product claims, you can't say "My soap cures eczema" or anything to that effect.

Technically you cannot, from my understanding it is still implying

 

[lpstephy85]

I just at this point let those that buy my soaps see what it does for their skin. If it does something magical, great I'll have a returning customer. I just focus on quality and know one day it will get me somewhere. Heck, it got me a private label deal so it already has done something. Play it on the safe side and don't make any claims about anything in your soap. What if you give it to a friend and say it will do such and such. They then have a friend that might be dealing with such and such, gives them a bar of your soap based on your word and their such and such becomes worse. Now you can be held liable.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

As I understand, the association issue even goes so far that, if I list my EOs and have a pamphlet about the properties of EOs on hand for customers to read, that would be a breach.

As it is, here in the EU, the guidance is somewhat clearer and the body more willing to react to breaches. Over here, I would indeed report anyone who was selling with no safety assessment and registration.

 

[OliveOil2]

I am thankful that I haven't had much of the cure all type of soap and salve makers at the events I have attended. I know that I would not be quiet about their claims. I have had a ton of young living reps approach me at craft fairs, seems they have been told that they can make a fortune if they recruit a soap person. They do preach that their oils will cure anything, and when I explain that I cannot make any claims like that I just get a blank stare. Where I live I am seeing smaller untruths, that still drive me crazy, all essential soap that are clearly FO, colors that are dye being marketed as natural etc.

 

[Dana89]

I wonder if soap made with Holy Water could make healing or protective claims-Blessed soap- Heals anything it touches. That may blur the FDA rules a little since they are not running into any churches to stop healing claims.
I had better shutup or some crazy bat may do just that.
I am kidding guys please don,t jump me lol.

 

[Lion Of Judah]

Because he is a fairly famous paid shill for a bunch of questionable 'medical' supplements. Green coffee extract being the best known example.

i still think he is far better than the doctors that support GMO and other things that agri-corp , big pharma produce for our dinner table. at the same rate i'm not saying i support every supplement on the market either.