palm and coconut. Do i need olive oil

[dggriffi]

I see a number of recipes that include these two oils plus olive oil. My understanding is that coconut may dry skin while olive oil makes for a softer soft.

Do you guys have any input on the effects of leaving out the olive oil or the benefits that adding it provides?

 

[bodybym]

Olive oil brings lots of great properties to soap (That's why there is castille soap that is made with 100% olive oil in Europe - here it has no legal definition). I use olive oil in almost all my soaps and love the added feel it gives.

Is there a reason you are thinking about not using it?

 

[dggriffi]

well, two reasons

The first is that im concerned about the hardness/softness of the soap.

Second, i don't have any olive oil but i do have coconut and palm so im trying to decide whether i should wait or just go.

 

[bodybym]

Olive oil in soap can be a funny thing. It rates soft on most lye calculators, and can create a softer soap when you unmold it, but with a good curing olive oil creates a nice hard creamy bar. My castille soap is horrible to unmold because it's so soft, but in 6-8 weeks it turns into lovely hard bars of soap.

If you have a Trader Joe's near you that's the least expensive olive oil I've found without going to Costco.

 

[dggriffi]

Olive oil in soap can be a funny thing. It rates soft on most lye calculators, and can create a softer soap when you unmold it, but with a good curing olive oil creates a nice hard creamy bar. My castille soap is horrible to unmold because it's so soft, but in 6-8 weeks it turns into lovely hard bars of soap.

If you have a Trader Joe's near you that's the least expensive olive oil I've found without going to Costco.

thanks for the info. Unfortunately, i don't have either of those outlets in my region. Perhaps i will do a little looking. What are the results like without the olive oil.

 

[theBrewMeister]

Olive oil in soap can be a funny thing. It rates soft on most lye calculators, and can create a softer soap when you unmold it, but with a good curing olive oil creates a nice hard creamy bar. My castille soap is horrible to unmold because it's so soft, but in 6-8 weeks it turns into lovely hard bars of soap.

If you have a Trader Joe's near you that's the least expensive olive oil I've found without going to Costco.

You can also look for any wholesale food suppliers in your area. We have a store called GFS -gordon food services- their target is food industry business but they also sell to the public. I can get olive pomace there for 13.69/gal. (8lbs) So thats not too bad. EVO is 20.99/gal

 

[honor435]

im not sure how your soap would be without a liquid oil? i love po, co, oo, castor, its my fav recipe. How bout some grapeseed? I just buy a gallon of the cheapest oo at grocery store, its 20$.
i just did soap calc for po and co, the numbers werent too bad using
po 18 oz, co 9, castor 4, i think it woulsd be nicer with oo.

 

[IrishLass]

What are the results like without the olive oil.

If you are just going to use palm oil and coconut oil, the resulting soap will be very hard, but also could end up being very drying to the skin, depending on how high or low you superfat it. At a normal 5% superfat it would be very drying to my skin.

But here's a bit of good news- there is a way to get around the drying effects- by superfatting the soap anywhere from 15% to 20%. I make a 70% coconut oil soap with 30% mango butter (those are the only 2 oils in the soap) and I superfat it at 15%. It makes a great soap- super hard, super bubbly, and best of all, its not drying to my skin. So, yes, you can forgo the olive oil in your CO/PO soap, but I would give it a high superfat to offset the drying effects of the CO if it were me.

IrishLass

 

[carebear]

yep yep yep

(you never "NEED" a particular oil. you need to balance your formula.)

 

[Lynnz]

(you never "NEED" a particular oil. you need to balance your formula.)

Love this !!!!!!

 

[krissy]

i never use OO in my soap and i make it with Palm and CO. i found that the OO seems to make me dry and itchy. even the OO i was trying out on my face for the OCM was drying me out.

so any ways- my soaps are hard, easily unmoldable by the next morning and make great lather and bubbles. i superfat at 6% usually and i have nice soft never dried out skin. i use mostly palm though.

 

[dggriffi]

i never use OO in my soap and i make it with Palm and CO. i found that the OO seems to make me dry and itchy. even the OO i was trying out on my face for the OCM was drying me out.

so any ways- my soaps are hard, easily unmoldable by the next morning and make great lather and bubbles. i superfat at 6% usually and i have nice soft never dried out skin. i use mostly palm though.

that's great to hear. I used 50/50 and pinned my fat at 8% sounds like it might work.

 

[orangeblossom]

What are the results like without the olive oil.

If you are just going to use palm oil and coconut oil, the resulting soap will be very hard, but also could end up being very drying to the skin, depending on how high or low you superfat it. At a normal 5% superfat it would be very drying to my skin.

But here's a bit of good news- there is a way to get around the drying effects- by superfatting the soap anywhere from 15% to 20%. I make a 70% coconut oil soap with 30% mango butter (those are the only 2 oils in the soap) and I superfat it at 15%. It makes a great soap- super hard, super bubbly, and best of all, its not drying to my skin. So, yes, you can forgo the olive oil in your CO/PO soap, but I would give it a high superfat to offset the drying effects of the CO if it were me.

IrishLass

Thanks for this specific info. Very useful. I have often wondered the same things, though I easily find "cheap" olive oil all over the city I live near.


Also, I keep a soap journal and write down recipes, temperatures etc and results. It's been very useful over the last decade for keeping track of experiments and times of year things work best and techniques etc.

 

[agriffin]

What are the results like without the olive oil.

If you are just going to use palm oil and coconut oil, the resulting soap will be very hard, but also could end up being very drying to the skin, depending on how high or low you superfat it. At a normal 5% superfat it would be very drying to my skin.

But here's a bit of good news- there is a way to get around the drying effects- by superfatting the soap anywhere from 15% to 20%. I make a 70% coconut oil soap with 30% mango butter (those are the only 2 oils in the soap) and I superfat it at 15%. It makes a great soap- super hard, super bubbly, and best of all, its not drying to my skin. So, yes, you can forgo the olive oil in your CO/PO soap, but I would give it a high superfat to offset the drying effects of the CO if it were me.

IrishLass

Thanks for this specific info. Very useful. I have often wondered the same things, though I easily find "cheap" olive oil all over the city I live near.


Also, I keep a soap journal and write down recipes, temperatures etc and results. It's been very useful over the last decade for keeping track of experiments and times of year things work best and techniques etc.

You just have to be careful with high superfatting- to me 15-20% is a bit too high and will be more prone to dos...(at least where I live). Olive oil is a staple in my soaps and I can't imagine my soap without it. It just contributes way too much. But...I would make the soap without and make a soap with it and see for yourself. That's the only way you'll know what's best for you.

 

[dggriffi]

What are the results like without the olive oil.

If you are just going to use palm oil and coconut oil, the resulting soap will be very hard, but also could end up being very drying to the skin, depending on how high or low you superfat it. At a normal 5% superfat it would be very drying to my skin.

But here's a bit of good news- there is a way to get around the drying effects- by superfatting the soap anywhere from 15% to 20%. I make a 70% coconut oil soap with 30% mango butter (those are the only 2 oils in the soap) and I superfat it at 15%. It makes a great soap- super hard, super bubbly, and best of all, its not drying to my skin. So, yes, you can forgo the olive oil in your CO/PO soap, but I would give it a high superfat to offset the drying effects of the CO if it were me.

IrishLass

Awsome. Thanks for the detailed response. I think perhaps might try a small amount of olive oil and up the fat to 10%

 

[honor435]

I have never made soap without oo, even in small amts, it adds SO much, and with pk you will still get a hard bar, i made some last night with po, oo, shea, co and castor and its rock hard(hp) today, although i will still cure it.

 

[IrishLass]

You just have to be careful with high superfatting- to me 15-20% is a bit too high and will be more prone to dos...(at least where I live).

I completely agree........ but with certain qualifications. Although I don't discount the probelms that high humidity can cause, I would say that much also depends on the fatty acid makeup of the oil or fat one is using. For instance, fats with a high linoleic acid content and a short shelf life (like canola or soy) are very poor choices for high superfats, while fats such as coconut oil- a very stable oil with a long shelf life (and little to no linoleic acid)- can withstand fairly high superfats without DOSing. The only soaps I ever go as high as 15% to 20% on the superfatting level are those that have a very high amount of coconut oil in them. I've never had one of them DOS on me yet in the 3 years I've been making them (I still have sample bars from each batch). I can't say the same about the highly superfatted batch of canola I made once, though. That was really bad. :shock: I didn't save any samples from that particular batch. It was just too nasty to keep around.

IrishLass