Olive oil in CP

[Dawni]

Could those solvents and what not in the pomace have anything to do with DOS?

I made a Castile type soap with 100% pomace, obviously, haha... And it's not even 6mos old and I think it has started to get DOS. Mind you, not spots though... More like it's spreading from the outer edges. I keep meaning to take pics n post but I keep forgetting..

I guess the question is... Will the kind of olive oil be a factor in getting DOS or not, all other factors being the same.. For example, water, containers, storage, humidity, etc.

 

[earlene]

Dawni, I have not made a 100% pomace Castile, but I have made a few batches of 50% pomace/50% regular OO and none of my Castiles have turned up with DOS.

Are you storing your soaps in light or darkness? I have found that some soaps stored with too much light can discolor on the surface in the way you describe. Oddly, though, soap that is in daily use at my kitchen sink, under a brightly lit window, does not discolor. So although light does play a role, repeated washing with the soap seems to prevent the discoloration. I don't quite understand why.

 

[Dawni]

Hmmm.. I wonder what will happen if I wash these.

Yknow what @earlene.. I'll get those down now and post a pic in a new thread and we can all discuss em there. I don't wanna hijack this thread lol but no, these soaps weren't stored anywhere sunny. After two months into cure I put em in shoe boxes.

 

[shunt2011]

I used Pomace a few times when I first started. Didn't care for it at all. It made things move faster and after some research and seeing that it's typically bottom of the barrel oil I decided not to use it.

 

[linne1gi]

I have made 100% Olive Oil soaps frequently. I have never used Pomace and only used EVOO once. I like to use regular yellow olive oil. I have never gotten DOS on any of my Castile soap. I tend to keep my super fat at 5% on Castile soaps. I really think that a higher super fat contributes to DOS. Along with keeping your soaps away from metal. And during formulation keep linoleic and linolenic numbers lower than 15.

 

[penelopejane]

Could those solvents and what not in the pomace have anything to do with DOS?

I made a Castile type soap with 100% pomace, obviously, haha... And it's not even 6mos old and I think it has started to get DOS. Mind you, not spots though... More like it's spreading from the outer edges. I keep meaning to take pics n post but I keep forgetting..

I guess the question is... Will the kind of olive oil be a factor in getting DOS or not, all other factors being the same.. For example, water, containers, storage, humidity, etc.

More likely to be your recipe or curing process.

 

[Arimara]

I don’t have a costco near me but I buy from Wegmans and there is a “pure” olive oil and a Mediterranean blend for $15.99 and $16.99 and the EV is a little more for 101 fl oz

I love Wegmans myself. I'm psyched they're finally opening a store in NYC but I'm not looking forward to potentially higher prices than I'd like (I know NYC is generally pricier than other areas but I also have a very good basis for comparison having lived both upstate and out of state too). Have you tried a Sam's club or a BJ's, if there's one near you?

Could those solvents and what not in the pomace have anything to do with DOS?

I made a Castile type soap with 100% pomace, obviously, haha... And it's not even 6mos old and I think it has started to get DOS. Mind you, not spots though... More like it's spreading from the outer edges. I keep meaning to take pics n post but I keep forgetting..

I guess the question is... Will the kind of olive oil be a factor in getting DOS or not, all other factors being the same.. For example, water, containers, storage, humidity, etc.

I used pomace in my very first batch of soap. I made that soap a little bit before I arrived on these forums. A couple of months ago, I used the last bar from that batch and it still didn't have DOS. I really think where you get the pomace as well as how you store your oils contributes to DOS as well.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Nope. There are options, but pomace is most well-suited to soap making due to the fact that it has the highest acidity and is usually the least expensive. The least well-suited to soapmaking is EVOO because it has the lowest acidity and is most expensive.

The best all-around Olive Oil is Costco/Kirkland Pure Olive Oil due to price and availability. If I'm out of pomace from Soapers Choice I can run up the street and pick up Pure OO from Costco.

The only area that requires caution is buying really cheap off-brand OO. It may be adulterated or "fake" olive oil and can throw your batch off. (Google "fake olive oil" for more information.) I lost 6 months of sales because my OO batches kept failing due to adulterated OO. Tom Lawson of Soapers Choice spotted the problem and offered to test my OO for me. I sent two 4-oz bottles to him. One from a local Natural Food Market; the other from a well-respected supplier here in CO. Both samples failed the test.

ETA: Here are a couple of links covering the subject of fake olive oil. Keep in mind that these tests are related to Olive Oil as food. There is little info on olive oil used in soap making unless the subject is addressed in threads like this one, or in blogs, soapers' web pages, etc.:
Fake Olive Oil - Brands 2019
https://deeprootsathome.com/italian-olive-oil-scam-see-olive-oil-brands-that-failed-the-tests/

https://www.realfoodforlife.com/which-olive-oil-to-buy-the-olive-oil-fraud/

Zany - it may be that the best EVOOs are cut with oils other than OO to increase profit, but the articles you linked are emphasizing that EVOOs are being diluted with cheaper grades of olive oil to increase profit. It’s still olive oil, just not of a quality commensurate with the price.

To make money diluting the lowest grades of OO, the nefarious profit stealers would need access to even less expensive oil. I wonder what those oils would be? Just wondering... If the profit margin on diluting the low grades of OO isn’t very high, maybe there is some protection in buying the lowest grades.

And one last question to throw out for consideration. Would an experienced soaper making a Castile be able to tell if the oil wasn’t OO? I don’t have the experience to know if there other oils that take forever to come to trace the way OO does.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

It’s still olive oil, just not of a quality commensurate with the price.

Keep in mind that grades of OO in the USA are based on taste, not soap related, so you are correct in that case. Doesn't matter where soap is concerned.

To make money diluting the lowest grades of OO, the nefarious profit stealers would need access to even less expensive oil.

Imagine being the only OO refinery based on the Mediterranean Sea. Imagine oil tankers sent out to collect OO as well as other oils from every country in that circuit around the Mediterranean. Cheaper oils are then readily available. All going to the same place to be refined.

And one last question to throw out for consideration. Would an experienced soaper making a Castile be able to tell if the oil wasn’t OO?

No. As I said earlier, I lost 6 months of sales because i couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong! Then Tom Lawson of Soapers Choice, who happened to be a member of Southern Soapers Yahoo group, correctly identified the problem as adulterated OO. He stepped in and offered to test my OO. I sent two samples. One from a well respected supplier in CO and another from a "whole foods" type store. Both samples tested had the same SAP value as soy oil, but the actual oils were not identified by that particular method of testing.

ETA: "Slippery Business" is the most in-depth description about the OO Scam. Altho written in 2007, the process is still going on today. Every once in a while, the FDA conducts a raid, fines the perpetrator who has no problem paying the fine, and then goes back to doing what he's always done.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/08/13/slippery-business

 

[linne1gi]

Could those solvents and what not in the pomace have anything to do with DOS?

I made a Castile type soap with 100% pomace, obviously, haha... And it's not even 6mos old and I think it has started to get DOS. Mind you, not spots though... More like it's spreading from the outer edges. I keep meaning to take pics n post but I keep forgetting..

I guess the question is... Will the kind of olive oil be a factor in getting DOS or not, all other factors being the same.. For example, water, containers, storage, humidity, etc.

Dawni, What kind of water do you use? I noticed that in one batch of my soap that got DOS, I had used tap water, not distilled. Also my linolenic and linoleic numbers were 18. I make sure to always use distilled water now (or another liquid) and I watch my #’s.

 

[Jamielynn]

I love the Kirkland brand Olive Oil from Costco as well. The issue I have with it lately is that I can not get an SDS sheet on it. Has anyone been successful at getting the SDS from Costco or their suppliers? I didn't think much of it before as I am a small business. But apparently if you are going to sell on larger venues you need to supply the SDS for your oils.

 

[linne1gi]

I love the Kirkland brand Olive Oil from Costco as well. The issue I have with it lately is that I can not get an SDS sheet on it. Has anyone been successful at getting the SDS from Costco or their suppliers? I didn't think much of it before as I am a small business. But apparently if you are going to sell on larger venues you need to supply the SDS for your oils.

I wasn’t aware that foods have SDS sheets. Olive oil is a food. I have never seen SDS sheets on food products, only on chemicals. I am a registered nurse and am very familiar on chemical safety.

 

[MarnieSoapien]

SDS are available for all oils in the EU (at least the distributors I order from). They exist but are not as common for US suppliers and distributors. The EU has the strictest regulations for soap in the world, so things like MSDS and CoA (Certificate of Analysis) are linked with all soap and cosmetic ingredients.

 

[linne1gi]

SDS are available for all oils in the EU (at least the distributors I order from). They exist but are not as common for US suppliers and distributors. The EU has the strictest regulations for soap in the world, so things like MSDS and CoA (Certificate of Analysis) are linked with all soap and cosmetic ingredients.

I realize that the EU has strict regulations. I don’t believe there are SDS sheets on food in the US.

 

[jcandleattic]

I love the Kirkland brand Olive Oil from Costco as well. The issue I have with it lately is that I can not get an SDS sheet on it. Has anyone been successful at getting the SDS from Costco or their suppliers? I didn't think much of it before as I am a small business. But apparently if you are going to sell on larger venues you need to supply the SDS for your oils.

?? I've never been asked for an SDS sheet. Of course I stopped doing the larger shows a while ago, but nobody I know who still does the bigger shows has been asked for them for their oils either. Main thing I've ever been asked to provide is proof of insurance for the business, and my sales tax license.

 

[MarnieSoapien]

I don’t believe there are SDS sheets on food in the US.

I think you might be missing my point. If you can get a SDS for olive oil in the EU that means they exist. @Jamielynn, are you trying to get the info from your local Costco or have you contacted Kirkland Brand directly?

 

[Nanette]

I have been wondering about the Costco OO. (BTW..does everyone know costco delivers? I have come across alot of people that don't know that). I have read in a couple different spots that pomace will accelerate your soap and I am starting to believe it because it is a struggle for me to keep anything liquid. ...it's starting to get frustrating. Plus I run out so fast that it would be so much quicker to get a costco delivery.

How do you like the costco OO? Does it seem to work well for you?

I have been using Costco olive oil--just their pure olive oil, not EVOO, for years and I like it Very much. It changes with the seasons sometimes...this late spring it was very green.....lol. I have used pomace only once and I wasnt impressed..Costco is such a good price, other oo like pomace I would have to order online and pay shipping. Anyway a big thumbs up for the Costo oo.

 

[shunt2011]

I love the Kirkland brand Olive Oil from Costco as well. The issue I have with it lately is that I can not get an SDS sheet on it. Has anyone been successful at getting the SDS from Costco or their suppliers? I didn't think much of it before as I am a small business. But apparently if you are going to sell on larger venues you need to supply the SDS for your oils.

I've never ever been asked for the SDS on my products at any shows in 8-9 years. Insurance and Sales Tax yes. Nothing else. I'm sure if you contacted Kirkland directly they may be able to help.

 

[Jamielynn]

I think you might be missing my point. If you can get a SDS for olive oil in the EU that means they exist. @Jamielynn, are you trying to get the info from your local Costco or have you contacted Kirkland Brand directly?

I left a message with Kirkland's main office, no response. I recently submitted soap for the advanced soap making certification for HSCG and was required to submit my SDS sheets for all the oils. Much to my surprise, I couldn't get them from a couple major suppliers. So, I had to resubmit my soap with new oils.

 

[Kathymzr]

Thanks for this great heads up!