Homemade Vanilla Stabilizer?
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Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
Here are some early results from the sodium thiosulfate/metabisulfate.
I didn't use much white in this soap but it is much whiter than the previous batches. It's definitely not an off white.
The FO is a 9% vanillin that goes dark brown. So early results on the combo are promising, at least I think so.
I didn't use much white in this soap but it is much whiter than the previous batches. It's definitely not an off white.
The FO is a 9% vanillin that goes dark brown. So early results on the combo are promising, at least I think so.
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That looks fantastic, Todd -- and I'm referring to the soap colors and design, not just the effectiveness of the homemade VS.
A couple of questions which you may have answered previously, so forgive me if these are repeats:
1. Did you notice any effect on how the recipe behaved, i.e., faster, slower?
2. Did you reduce your overall water/liquid in proportion to the amount of water in the VS solution?
3. You used 10 parts water to 3 parts thiosulfate to 3 parts metabisulfate, correct?
4. Can you estimate the cost (per oz or per gram) for the homemade solution?
Cannot thank you enough for this. I love scents with vanillin in them, but had decided after my first VS purchase that I would probably rarely use them due to the VS cost, and because there is only so much brown soap that I want to have around.
A couple of questions which you may have answered previously, so forgive me if these are repeats:
1. Did you notice any effect on how the recipe behaved, i.e., faster, slower?
2. Did you reduce your overall water/liquid in proportion to the amount of water in the VS solution?
3. You used 10 parts water to 3 parts thiosulfate to 3 parts metabisulfate, correct?
4. Can you estimate the cost (per oz or per gram) for the homemade solution?
Cannot thank you enough for this. I love scents with vanillin in them, but had decided after my first VS purchase that I would probably rarely use them due to the VS cost, and because there is only so much brown soap that I want to have around.
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
1. The soap never misbehaved with either of the FO's that I used and I used the same recipe
2. I didn't reduce my water in the recipe
3. Correct on the amounts
4. I paid $10 for a pound of the metabisulfate and for the thiosulfate I paid $9 for a pound. I used 7.5ozs of each for a 25oz bottle, which is close to $15 for 2 pounds of finished product. I was paying $13 a pound including shipping. So I am saving $5 per pound. I know for many of others they are paying a lot more for one pound.
2. I didn't reduce my water in the recipe
3. Correct on the amounts
4. I paid $10 for a pound of the metabisulfate and for the thiosulfate I paid $9 for a pound. I used 7.5ozs of each for a 25oz bottle, which is close to $15 for 2 pounds of finished product. I was paying $13 a pound including shipping. So I am saving $5 per pound. I know for many of others they are paying a lot more for one pound.
Such a gorgeous soap.
I have my solution ready to go today. Trying to decide which fo to use.
I have my solution ready to go today. Trying to decide which fo to use.
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
I'm doing another test today, which I probably should have done at the beginning. I'm doing an almost color free batch. I swirled in a little blue just because I like a little color.
Please share pics of your results!
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
This post in another thread may be helpful?
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/what-soapy-thing-have-you-done-today.42556/page-901#post-856885
Can these be dissolved in the water and stored in solution together to bears for different batch’s of soap? Like you do with EDTA or TD.
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
Yes they can but it evaporates very easily, so I put a cork in the neck of the bottle and then put the cap on. You can use either a rubber or natural cork, doesn't really matter. You can also use a piece of wax paper over the threads then screw the cap on. You just need to create a good seal to prevent evaporation.
Here is the test batch that I made without a lot of color. You can notice the big difference between the gelled and no gelling. It appears that gelling makes a difference even when using VCS.
The next batch that I make, I will pour off some batter without the VCS and see what difference it really makes.
Sorry. Probably because I did not make it a public recipe. Here it is below.
Sorry. That link wont work because my recipe is not public. See below response for the recipe.
This has happened with multiple recipes, but the most recent and most ugly one was:
450g Coconut oil (30%)
215g great value shortening(17.5%)
280g lard (18.5%)
555g olive oil
436g frozen goat milk
218g NaOH (bottle claims 99% purity)
I weighed out 287g of soap batter and added 10g Sandlewood Vanilla FO from Brambleberry.
I actually bothered to check the temperature on the oils and lye right before i mixed them and they were both between 100F and 110F before mixing. I poured the batter into some silicone cupcake molds and left them on my 65F porch to solidify for a few hours before bringing them indoors to finish saponification sitting on top of my refrigerator. My house runs around 70F this time of year.
In the pictures, I show one of the soaps uncut and freshly cut open. On the outside you can see a couple white patches. I assume from DeeAnna’s comments that those could be butterfat soap bits. You can also see lots of dark splotches and specks. Those are what I assumed were poorly mixed patches of fragrance oil. On the freshly cut face I can see light tan specks (just barely a different color from the main soap) that I assumed were bits of FO. What do you think is going on here?
I should add that I have zap tested all the different colors of soap in the bar and have never gotten a zap.
This was also a batch where I hand stirred in the FO. I also managed to be patient add the lye to the milk slowly enough that I didn’t get that dark orange burnt milk color in my lye solution before adding it to my oils.
It will be a while before I can make soap again to test a no milk soap and know for sure what is happening, so i hope you experts can find something in these pictures that can satisfy this cat’s horrible curiosity!
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WOW is that some major difference!
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
Yes it is but since I don't have a VCS free bar to match it with, I'm not sure of exactly what is going on. I have some new FO's coming from natures garden that have 9% and 12% vanillin in them.
In order to properly evaluate the homemade VCS, we need several people trying it, with FO's from different sources.
I am reasonably confident of the effectiveness of the homemade VCS but I still have some nagging questions about the role that gelling is playing in the process. That is why I hope others will join in on the testing.
That is a HUGE difference between gelled and non-gelled. They don't even look like the same soap!
I really need to use my my current VS and then I promise to order some of the two sulfates (and a respirator!) to give it a go.
Can’t thank you enough for being the pioneer on this,Todd!
I really need to use my my current VS and then I promise to order some of the two sulfates (and a respirator!) to give it a go.
Can’t thank you enough for being the pioneer on this,Todd!
I have the same issue with not having oils with vanillin content- early on I stopped buying it. I have some ‘no name’ oils which I’m sure will discolour but have no idea of the actual Vanillin content. I also have ordered some from a local fragrance oil supplier. This supplier now only opens her website one day a week for around 6 hours because of the huge demand during Covid. Then she fills and posts the orders over the week. Amazing!
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
Looks great, Todd!
Turns out I need some other stuff from SaveOnCitric, so I'm looking now for their sodium thiosulfate and their sodium metabisulfate. Looks like they are only selling large quantities right now, because the smaller quantities don't have an Add to Cart option, only "View Details." I may try to call them and see why the smaller amounts aren't listed for sale.
Turns out I need some other stuff from SaveOnCitric, so I'm looking now for their sodium thiosulfate and their sodium metabisulfate. Looks like they are only selling large quantities right now, because the smaller quantities don't have an Add to Cart option, only "View Details." I may try to call them and see why the smaller amounts aren't listed for sale.
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
You can always get it from Amazon. It is the same brand that independent brewing suppliers sell.
Today I am going to make a banana and cantaloupe soap. Although neither of them have any vanillin in them, banana FO's have always turned my soap brown. I am going to pour off some unscented and scented soap without the VCS, so I can compare the results.
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
This test did not further my results at all. Even without the VCS it didn't darken at all and the banana and cantaloupe remained true to SOS's description.
I have an FO being delivered today from natures garden "coconut coast" it has 8.2% vanillin and becomes a very dark brown. I'm going to do a brown mica and white mica in it today but I will pour off a small amount without color and VCS, and another small amount without color but with the VCS. I will add a screen shot of the FO in the soap.
I believe this FO will be key to finding out just how well the homemade VCS works. I remain very optimistic about the homemade VCS and I'm now going to refer to it as ZCS (Zigs Color Stabilizer) haha..... Lol! Sorry, just having some fun.
I have an FO being delivered today from natures garden "coconut coast" it has 8.2% vanillin and becomes a very dark brown. I'm going to do a brown mica and white mica in it today but I will pour off a small amount without color and VCS, and another small amount without color but with the VCS. I will add a screen shot of the FO in the soap.
I believe this FO will be key to finding out just how well the homemade VCS works. I remain very optimistic about the homemade VCS and I'm now going to refer to it as ZCS (Zigs Color Stabilizer) haha..... Lol! Sorry, just having some fun.
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Please be careful with the terminology.
The underlined formulation is 30% metabisulfate based on the weight of water only. This is not 30% metabisulfate in the finished solution. Chemists often use this method of explaining how they make mixtures, but it's important to be clear what basis you're using for the percentages or ratios so people don't misunderstand.
This finished mixture would contain 3/(10+3) X 100 = 23% metabisulfate. This 23% is a percentage based on the weight of the final finished mixture.
"....For the 2 together, I dissolved 30% of each with 10 ounces of water...."
Please don't mix units of weight and percentages. It's not that it's wrong to do so; it's more about minimizing the chances of people misunderstanding. Just say what you said next --
"...3oz of thiosulfate and 3oz of metabisulfate in 10 ounces of water...."
This advice is perfectly unambiguous and no percentages or ratios required.
FWIW, this would make a finished mixture that contains 18.75% thiosulfate, 18.75% metabisulfate, and 62.5% water by weight based on the weight of the final finished mixture.
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
Thanks for fixing it. I'm not an expert in what I was attempting to explain, therefore it makes it hard to translate what is in my head, to something understandable on paper. As much as I love math, and I do, I was never any good at it.
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