Wonderful pine tar soaps!

[Dennis]

Hi Dennis,

My understanding of the difference between "ordinary" pine tar and "kiln burned" pine tar:
Ordinary pine tar is a byproduct of the burning of pine wood for the production of charcoal.
Kiln burned pine tar is produced through the burning of the stumps of a particular species of pine, for the sole purpose of creating a quality pine tar of high purity.

From all I have read, the kiln burned is what's recommended for use in body care products. Obviously you are free to use whatever pine tar you want, but I just thought I would provide that information since the horse health person didn't actually answer your question

Krunt,
Thank you. I noticed they didn't directly answer my question and took that to mean it would be a negative response but they chose not to cast a negative of any kind for any reason on their product. Just my opinion. At any rate, I've used the pine tar for several batches of soap and love it in use. There have been no ill effects to date so I will forge on and continue on my path as I am not selling soap and those who have used it are most happy.


Wait a minute.
What's that?
On my elbow!
It's a finger growing out of my elbow! Granted it's little, but it's the second one this year! :shock:
I always felt being forced to eat brussel sprouts as a kid would have ill effects and this proves it! :roll:

 

[Ktaggard]

Hi. Very interesting thread. I just ordered some pine tar from amazon. Gonna give it a go.
Are their any oils or butters to avoid when making a pine tar soap? Or can one use a favorite recipe and just add in pine tar at 10% to 20%. I love tallow and shea butter in all my soaps. Does anyone see a problem in using these with pine tar?
TIA.

 

[seven]

i've used my usual recipe for my pt batches, just reduced the coconut a bit since it's meant for sensitive skin ppl.

 

[AnnaO]

Yikes! Thanks for the InfO, AnnaO.

It's all OK!

My OH emailed the distributors (- Westgate, the address is on the tins) about his concerns regarding ingredients in the Gold Label Pine Tar (- both Thick and Liquid), as he has used the stuff in the past, (in a non-soap-related way). He asked if there were thinners, or creosote, or such like, as he was concerned about potential toxicity issues, etc.
And Westgate, having contacted Mr N, forwarded his comments on to him, which are thus:

"Both contain Thick Pine Tar. The Liquid is diluted with vegetable oil to make it thinner. There is nothing else in."

Phew.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

One is very relieved. Very relieved indeed.

 

[AnnaO]

One is very relieved. Very relieved indeed.

Hmm.
I wonder what type of vegetable oil, and at what %...
.....SoapCalc wants to know.....

 

[Saponista]

The horse hoof treatments I was looking at said they had castor oil as an ingredient.

 

[shaan]

I checked the recipe on soap calc. Cleansing number is high and conditioning low..will it not be stripping?

 

[ocean_soul]

Pine tar soap sounds so awesome...I have yet to try making any, though. Would you believe I had a customer tell me they had a bad reaction to Pine tar soap once? So strange!

 

[Mellifera]

The horse hoof treatments I was looking at said they had castor oil as an ingredient.

Makes sense since for shows, you want black, shiny hooves.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Shaan, you only add up to about 20% (I don't recall people going much higher than that) so it's okay.

AnnaO, if we could get the nutritional information for the products, then we could work out how much of each oil is in there. But I don't think anyone has considered nutritional information for PT, based on the smell!

 

[Obsidian]

Have any of you pine tar fans tried a neem soap instead? I like it considerably more then PT and there isn't the worries about toxicity.

 

[seven]

Pine tar soap sounds so awesome...I have yet to try making any, though. Would you believe I had a customer tell me they had a bad reaction to Pine tar soap once? So strange!

possible. also possible that they might be sensitive not to the pine tar itself, but probably to other ingredients in the soap.

 

[Twiggy]

Have any of you pine tar fans tried a neem soap instead? I like it considerably more then PT and there isn't the worries about toxicity.

I was thinking about that oil too, but after little research I did I find out that it does smell like a dead body… I have to tell that puts me off a bit… Even to add a little to a PT soap. Big shame, as it has great properties….

I just got my PT, but cosmetic grade – the smell Hah, I was not ready for it But still for me smells more woodish burn that burn tires – good think I guess hahaha

And the cosmetic grade PT is recommended on max 5%, does anyone has any experience on that?

 

[Obsidian]

It doesn't smell like a dead body lol. Its more like rotten garlic and is quite strong when soaping with it but it fades with time. My neem bars are 4 month and they smell kinda like black tea now.
I really hate the smell of neem but it makes such a amazing soap that I deal with. I even use it at 5% in my shampoo bars.

 

[Twiggy]

It doesn't smell like a dead body lol. Its more like rotten garlic and is quite strong when soaping with it but it fades with time. My neem bars are 4 month and they smell kinda like black tea now.
I really hate the smell of neem but it makes such a amazing soap that I deal with. I even use it at 5% in my shampoo bars.

Oh really... That’s great! Then I will go for it! About 5% I was thinking too
Thnak you Obsidian

 

[Skatergirl46]

I was thinking about that oil too, but after little research I did I find out that it does smell like a dead body… I have to tell that puts me off a bit… Even to add a little to a PT soap. Big shame, as it has great properties….

I just got my PT, but cosmetic grade – the smell Hah, I was not ready for it But still for me smells more woodish burn that burn tires – good think I guess hahaha

And the cosmetic grade PT is recommended on max 5%, does anyone has any experience on that?

I have a batch that I made with 20% Neem oil. I used Lemongrass EO in it moderately strong and the EO covers the smell of the Neem very well. The soap smells great.

 

[Mancmummy]

Hi, this is my first post here even though I have been browsing tne forum for some time. After reading this thread I bought some Auson Kiln burned pine tar from timbersave (lovely company in Warrington Uk). I have made a batch of pine tar soap which turned out great - if a little darker than I expected! I was looking to get the soap safety assessed and contacted a company re the pine tar as it was the only product that I couldn't find on their approved list. The response I got back was a not one I expected, they said that after speaking to their chemist I would not be able to use the pine tar. I have seen many pine tar soaps for sale inthe UK and have made sure that the one that I used is 100% Pine Tar - it even says that it is often used for cosmetics and pharmaceuticals on the product information on the website. Surely I can get a pine tar soap recipe approved by the UK regulators. Has anyone had their pine tar soap assessed/approved. If so, can you please tell me which company you used? Any help would be much appreciated.

Sue x

 

[AnnaO]

Hi, this is my first post here even though I have been browsing tne forum for some time. After reading this thread I bought some Auson Kiln burned pine tar from timbersave (lovely company in Warrington Uk). I have made a batch of pine tar soap which turned out great - if a little darker than I expected! I was looking to get the soap safety assessed and contacted a company re the pine tar as it was the only product that I couldn't find on their approved list. The response I got back was a not one I expected, they said that after speaking to their chemist I would not be able to use the pine tar. I have seen many pine tar soaps for sale inthe UK and have made sure that the one that I used is 100% Pine Tar - it even says that it is often used for cosmetics and pharmaceuticals on the product information on the website. Surely I can get a pine tar soap recipe approved by the UK regulators. Has anyone had their pine tar soap assessed/approved. If so, can you please tell me which company you used? Any help would be much appreciated.

Sue x

Hello Mancmummy, and welcome
As another Brit soaper I wish I could help you here, but I'm just a hobby soaper currently with no intentions to sell. All the EU red tape, not to mention the cost, I find all a bit off-putting :crazy:

So I'll make it clear from the start that I don't have the slightest clue what I'm talking about here, I could be talking through my xxx, so please bear this in mind

... my only suggestion would be to perhaps contact as many assessors as possible regarding the pine tar? That is assuming they would provide free advice in the first place - as I've never personally spoken to an assessor, I wouldn't know

I'm sure I read somewhere a while back, I'm almost certain it wasn't this forum but elsewhere on the web (I really don't remember where now), that there seems to exist with some ingredients a sort of lack of consistency between assessors, where say one assessor would pass a specific recipe or ingredient, while another would not. I'm sure I read a discussion about it somewhere. I'm sorry I'm so vague here, I just recall reading it in passing while I was searching for something else.
But whether or not this would apply in the case of pine tar I wouldn't like to say. And the information I read may be way out of date now, changing regulations may have made such subjective judgement by assessors impossible.

Regarding your pine tar, did the chemist give a reason why they would not approve it? Soap I've seen on sale here in the UK (on Amazon) is 2.5% pharmaceutical grade pine tar, 'Pine Tar BP'.
I emailed a company about pine tar BP, but have not received a reply, and from what Twiggy said in her post earlier, it's likely to be frighteningly expensive.

 

[Mancmummy]

Thanks AnnaO, I will contact a couple more assessors as the one I contacted gave no reason "I have checked with our chemist re the Pine Tar and this will not be allowed I'm afraid." No more explanation

My recipe includes 16% pine tar which worries me a bit now but most of the recipes I looked at said between 15 and 20% was acceptable. Not sure if Pine Tar Bp would make any difference to the percentage used.

The Pine Tar that I used is this one http://www.timbersave.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=64&product_id=98

It says "Kiln Burned Pine tar is a pure, natural product produced by the old fashioned kiln burning of pine tree stumps. This type of tar is characterized by high resin content, low content of pitch and high purity. Kiln Burned Pine Tar is a high performance tar especially for medical purposes but also for veterinary use as well as for wood and wood preservation. You can find Kiln Burned Pine Tar as an ingredient in shampoos, soaps, expectorants and in ointments against allergic rash, psoriasis and eczema, among others."

Lots more research to be done me thinks....I wanted to sell some of the soap at a craft fair but will have to either hold back or scrap the idea depending on what else I can find out. Will be great if you hear back re the pine tar Bp but not pinning my hopes on it being in my budget. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply