You should struggle to find any PT with creosote any more! It is banned as far as I know, so the biggest problem with PT is now done away with
Wonderful pine tar soaps!
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Saponista
Well-Known Member
I had a look for pine tar today the horse section at tragos mills. There were tons of different hoof oils all containing 'stockholm tar' but there were no ingredients lists saying what else was in there too. Some had castor oil but no full ingredients list. Do people just use this sort of adulterated hoof oil or is it possible to find near pine tar?
AnnaO
Well-Known Member
I understand the pine tar we need for soaping is the pure stuff, which is also called 'Stockholm Tar'.
I recently bit the bullet and ordered this from an Amazon seller:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00CF09ZXQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
(I only received mine from this seller last week, and I paid £5 plus £4 postage, so their price has increased since then).
The tin does not have an ingredients list, apart from a description which states 'An unadulterated natural antiseptic tar formed by the destructive distillation of the wood from the trees of the pine family'.
So from that, and its name being 'Stockholm Tar', I assume that it is pure
I hunted high and low locally for pine tar for soaping for a good while, to no avail.
Although the Wirral where I live is quite horsey I learned that the equestrian supply places here only stock the pine-tar-mixed-with-other-stuff hoof treatments.
The nearest place I could actually purchase the pure stuff off the shelf and in person was at a farmers' supply shop out in Mold in North Wales, about 35 miles away from here. That was priced at IIRC £15 plus VAT for 1 litre. Factor in £10 petrol for the round trip and it worked out cheaper this time to get the Amazon stuff. If my soap is a success though, I shall stock up next time we are passing that way.
Besides being a hoof treatment, I have learned that Stockholm tar/pure pine tar is also used for wounds and to deter pecking in hens.... isn't soaping a fascinating voyage of discovery!
Edit: I now realise that link is to a different seller and not the one I purchased from. My seller was cheaper, but now appears to have sold out
Later edit: I have also realised that some of the 'Stockholm Tar' products may contain other substances added - I'm trying to find out which - see my post below
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Do people just use this sort of adulterated hoof oil or is it possible to find near pine tar?..."
Yes, it is possible to get pure pine tar. I do not use "hoof oil". Here are three brands that I know of. I've used the first two and I know the third is also reputable.
Bickmore Pine Tar: https://www.google.com/shopping/product/1187085285195842695
Auson "Kiln Burn" Pine Tar: http://www.noxudolusa.com/product/kiln-burn-pine-tar-liter/
Auson/Noxudol sells internationally -- they're a Swedish company. http://www.auson.se/sv
Farnam Pine Tar: https://www.google.com/shopping/product/7398247586516858491
Yes, it is possible to get pure pine tar. I do not use "hoof oil". Here are three brands that I know of. I've used the first two and I know the third is also reputable.
Bickmore Pine Tar: https://www.google.com/shopping/product/1187085285195842695
Auson "Kiln Burn" Pine Tar: http://www.noxudolusa.com/product/kiln-burn-pine-tar-liter/
Auson/Noxudol sells internationally -- they're a Swedish company. http://www.auson.se/sv
Farnam Pine Tar: https://www.google.com/shopping/product/7398247586516858491
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AnnaO
Well-Known Member
Pine Tar in the UK...
Thank you for those links DeeAnna
I have been unable to find a UK supplier of the Bickmore and Farnam brands, perhaps they are not available over here?
The problem is, as Saponista noted, that the pine tar products here in the UK do not have the ingredients listed on the packaging
So I have been busy doing a little homework which I hope will eventually prove helpful for us UK soapers
The Swedish company from your links, 'Auson', have two UK suppliers listed on their website, one of which stocks their pine tar; they are called Timbersave and are located in Warrington:
http://www.timbersave.co.uk/index.p...ch&filter_name=pine tar&filter_category_id=64
I have emailed them asking them to please confirm which of their Auson brand pine tars is 100% pure.
Apart from the Auson products from that one supplier I've not as yet been able to find any other 'Pine Tar' available in the UK, apart from the 'Stockholm Tar' used for hoof treatment. Here's a list:
http://www.nextag.co.uk/stockholm-tar/compare-html#!
So the brands of 'Stockholm Tar' available in the UK are:
Battles,
Carr, Day & Martin (- they make Vanner & Prest Stockholm Hoof Tar),
Equimims,
Gold Label (- make 'thick' and also 'liquid' versions), and
Lincoln.
(This may not be a complete list but they are what I have found up to now).
I have emailed the manufacturers of the first four asking them if their Stockhom Tar is 100% pure or does it contain added ingredients.
I could not locate the manufacturer's contact details for the last one (Lincoln), so I have emailed a major supplier and asked them instead.
I'll update this thread as and when I get any replies.
Thank you for those links DeeAnna
I have been unable to find a UK supplier of the Bickmore and Farnam brands, perhaps they are not available over here?
The problem is, as Saponista noted, that the pine tar products here in the UK do not have the ingredients listed on the packaging
So I have been busy doing a little homework which I hope will eventually prove helpful for us UK soapers
The Swedish company from your links, 'Auson', have two UK suppliers listed on their website, one of which stocks their pine tar; they are called Timbersave and are located in Warrington:
http://www.timbersave.co.uk/index.p...ch&filter_name=pine tar&filter_category_id=64
I have emailed them asking them to please confirm which of their Auson brand pine tars is 100% pure.
Apart from the Auson products from that one supplier I've not as yet been able to find any other 'Pine Tar' available in the UK, apart from the 'Stockholm Tar' used for hoof treatment. Here's a list:
http://www.nextag.co.uk/stockholm-tar/compare-html#!
So the brands of 'Stockholm Tar' available in the UK are:
Battles,
Carr, Day & Martin (- they make Vanner & Prest Stockholm Hoof Tar),
Equimims,
Gold Label (- make 'thick' and also 'liquid' versions), and
Lincoln.
(This may not be a complete list but they are what I have found up to now).
I have emailed the manufacturers of the first four asking them if their Stockhom Tar is 100% pure or does it contain added ingredients.
I could not locate the manufacturer's contact details for the last one (Lincoln), so I have emailed a major supplier and asked them instead.
I'll update this thread as and when I get any replies.
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I found the Farnam Pine Tar. I have found a store close to me that I am hopefully going to go see one day soon. Here is a link to the products site. There is a label you can see but no ingredients on it.
http://www.farnamhorse.com/product.php?type=HORSE&mainkey=200005&pid=100175&key=300002#
http://www.farnamhorse.com/product.php?type=HORSE&mainkey=200005&pid=100175&key=300002#
AnnaO
Well-Known Member
The Farnam Pine Tar is 100% pine tar as DeeAnna pointed out
That is a useful link for US soapers, thank you scottief
Unfortunately though the Farnam Pine tar seems to be unavailable on the other side of the Atlantic in the UK where Saponista and I live
That is a useful link for US soapers, thank you scottief
Unfortunately though the Farnam Pine tar seems to be unavailable on the other side of the Atlantic in the UK where Saponista and I live
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You want either the Auson "Kiln Burn" product (Dalbrand Tratjara, #773) or the Auson "Genuine" pine tar (Akta Tratjara, #850). The Kiln Burn is a handmade old-fashioned pine tar. The Genuine is still pine tar, but I understand it is made with a more mass-produced method. Ingredients for both types from Auson's MSDS: tall oil pitch, rosin acids, neutral matters such as fatty alcohols and phytosterin and a small amount of terpenes.
The difference in price is 2 to 1 in the US. I use the Kiln Burn ... in for a penny, in for a pound.
You do NOT want the Imprex product (Ljus Specialtjara, #845). It is a blended product that includes pine tar; it is not 100% pine tar. Ingredients from Auson's MSDS: Tall oil pitch: 60 - 80 %, Tall oil mixture: 10 - 20 %, Pine Tar: 5 - 15 %, Turpentine, vegetable: 2,5 %
The difference in price is 2 to 1 in the US. I use the Kiln Burn ... in for a penny, in for a pound.
You do NOT want the Imprex product (Ljus Specialtjara, #845). It is a blended product that includes pine tar; it is not 100% pine tar. Ingredients from Auson's MSDS: Tall oil pitch: 60 - 80 %, Tall oil mixture: 10 - 20 %, Pine Tar: 5 - 15 %, Turpentine, vegetable: 2,5 %
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I use the Gold Label from Hunter (the first amazon link from AnnaO) and it is fine. Even after it is shipped all the way here!
Lots of questions about purity, creosote, etc. I decided to write to the Horse Health Products company and ask some questions as that is the brand I use, available in lots of places in the USA. I'll post their response.
Saponista
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the help and suggestions everyone.
AnnaO
Well-Known Member
Yes I used my 'Gold Label - Thick Tar' yesterday to make my first ever batch of pine tar soap
I hp'd it in my slow cooker, and used my stick blender on it as it was taking a long time to trace. But then it was 55% lard and my high lard soaps have all been tardy tracers. It's nice and hard now, out of the cavity moulds, and curing. I might post pictures at a later time if I can get it to look remotely pretty.
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OK, here's the response from Horse Health concerning my pine tar questions.
To me, 100% is 100% and whether it is pharmaceutical grade doesn't bother me. That's probably the difference between technical and food grade lye which doesn't bother me either. Those who sell may or may not have concerns.
To me, 100% is 100% and whether it is pharmaceutical grade doesn't bother me. That's probably the difference between technical and food grade lye which doesn't bother me either. Those who sell may or may not have concerns.
To be honest, if a germ can live in 100% Pine Tar then it deserves to win...............................
Agreed! I did submit another email questioning the difference between pharmaceutical and whatever just 100% may be. I suspect the pharmaceutical grade has a fewer rat hairs or roach feet in it. I know you're all hanging by your fingernails just waiting to find out. :-D
But now I am thinking - there was a thread about anti-bacterial soap, but Pine Tar is more Anti Fungal than Anti Bacterial, isn't it?
Saponista
Well-Known Member
Pharmaceutical grade will just be extra super duper tested for any possible other toxicological or microbiological contaminants. If you're selling then I might be a bit concerned but for personal use I would just go with it.
At $9 a quart I can put up with a few extra hairs and feet.
Uh, the "kiln burn" stuff is about $40 per quart including shipping. Outrageously pricey compared to the Bickmore/Farnam stuff, but I really like the scent of this product (smoky campfire) compared with Bickmore PT (burning rubber). Since DH gets the lion's share of my PT soap, I figure he's worth it.
You're right. I strolled into Tractor Supply and picked up a qt of Horse Health pine tar for $9 and change but that was at least a year ago. Prices have changed and this link shows them to be varied. Plenty of choices.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0030ECLOG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
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