What’s the madder with my madder?

[atiz]

I’ve had a jar of madder powder and olive oil in the frig for maybe 6 months now. I shake it occasionally. When the powder settles, the oil is the same color it was on the day I added it. I can’t imagine that it would make pink soap. I have tried and adopted Julia’s method and proportions for most of my madder soaps. It’s the easiest and makes a pretty pink.

Hm... I think I had had mine sitting on the counter for 4-5 weeks before making the soap. I used a small jam jar with about 1 tsp of ground madder, shaking it occasionally. Then strained it out.
But probably your method is easier, I just didn't know about it when I made the above .

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Hm... I think I had had mine sitting on the counter for 4-5 weeks before making the soap. I used a small jam jar with about 1 tsp of ground madder, shaking it occasionally. Then strained it out.
But probably your method is easier, I just didn't know about it when I made the above .

If madder works as an oil infusion it makes it easier to use it in multicolor soaps. I just assumed it wouldn’t and that’s why I went to making tinctures or putting it in ammonia.

 

[atiz]

I like the tincture method better now... I didn't know about it back then. I think you'd need too much infused oil to make a good color, so it only makes sense if you're coloring the whole batch.

 

[szaza]

@Mobjack Bay I have a spirulina infusion that looks completely transparant, but turns a lovely soft green when added at 20% of oils (though it takes either gelling or a week of waiting to get the color out). Curcuma infusion is also only a very pale yellow, but can turn bright orange in soap. I have no idea if this would be the same for madder, but since you have the oil, why not try it out?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@Mobjack Bay I have a spirulina infusion that looks completely transparant, but turns a lovely soft green when added at 20% of oils (though it takes either gelling or a week of waiting to get the color out). Curcuma infusion is also only a very pale yellow, but can turn bright orange in soap. I have no idea if this would be the same for madder, but since you have the oil, why not try it out?

Good to know. I will get right on it.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I guess this one becomes my first fall soap. The pink in the ungelled soap is just what I was hoping for. The gelled loaf, not exactly what I had in mind. This was madder tea added to the lye. I’ve done madder in lye before, so I have no idea why this happened. The only thing I can think of is that the tea sat overnight because I got pulled away from making soap the first night. but, then why is the ungelled soap the color I was expecting? The soap has morphed a bit, from a brighter orange, but I am doubtful that it will turn pink.

 

[szaza]

I'm sorry the soap didn't turn out as planned.. I do think the combo of gelled and ungelled soap looks really nice, could be material for a very nice ghost swirl

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I'm sorry the soap didn't turn out as planned.. I do think the combo of gelled and ungelled soap looks really nice, could be material for a very nice ghost swirl

Well, it’s all the more annoying because I used EOs that I definitely didn’t want to waste. I will get over it...

 

[AliOop]

So sorry! Keep us posted if the color morphs into something more to your liking.

 

[szaza]

Well, it’s all the more annoying because I used EOs that I definitely didn’t want to waste. I will get over it...

Oh no that's really frustrating indeed!

 

[curlycoat2]

I had the same experience with madder tea which is why I use it in the lye. The ungelled for me faded faster than if I gelled it and used less madder in lye to get the color I wanted.

 

[AliOop]

I had the same experience with madder tea which is why I use it in the lye. The ungelled for me faded faster than if I gelled it and used less madder in lye to get the color I wanted.

The queen of natural colorants has spoken! I always appreciate your valuable input

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I had the same experience with madder tea which is why I use it in the lye. The ungelled for me faded faster than if I gelled it and used less madder in lye to get the color I wanted.

Interesting, so are you saying that adding madder tea to lye does not produce the same result as adding madder powder directly to the lye? That will send me back to check my notes because I was fairly certain that I had tried it both ways with similar results. I was going to blame this color issue on the powder sitting in the water overnight.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

The bottom layer is rose clay, the others are madder added various ways. Methods as described above. Soap made June 2019.

 

[Savage Daughter]

The bottom layer is rose clay, the others are madder added various ways. Methods as described above. Soap made June 2019.
View attachment 52951

I'm responding to this thread WAY after the fact but wanted to chime in with my experiences using madder.

I have gotten some very intense pinks when macerating madder root powder AND pink clay together in oil overnight. I am still playing, tuning the intensity, because it can get VERY intense.

Wanted to add my own experience with this as you mentioned pink clay alone in the soap mentioned in this post, and madder alone. I've read all of the posts in this thread, but may have missed something.

I have not yet added madder to lye, or indigo for that matter / madder and have not yet tried tincturing these natural colorants for use in soap, but will be doing more experimenting with plant colorants over this winter on days which the snow is too deep to allow me to leave my house

I also bought Jo Hausler's ebook & need to refer back to it. Has been far too long since I read it! Hoping it will be printed again as e-books & printing them at home are my least favourite reference material formats.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Yes, this thread is from waaay back and I’ve learned a thing or two about using natural colorants since then, especially from @curlycoat2 and wildplantanica. The tea into the lye method works well, but using colorants in lye adds work if the end goal is a multicolored soap,

I’ve been able to achieve a very nice pink from madder pigment extracted with isopropyl alcohol (also shown in first soap pic in this thread) and also beautiful maroon and purple colors when indigo (manufactured) was added along with the madder extract.

@QuasiQuadrant after you make the oil maceration, do you strain the oil, or do you use the the maceration without straining?

 

[Savage Daughter]

Yes, this thread is from waaay back and I’ve learned a thing or two about using natural colorants since then, especially from @curlycoat2 and wildplantanica. The tea into the lye method works well, but using colorants in lye adds work if the end goal is a multicolored soap,

This is why I love looking at old threads Chass at Wild Plantanica is absolutely amazing. That woman has a great deal of knowledge & skill when it comes to using natural colorants, and her products are INCREDIBLE. Some of the most beautiful I have ever seen.

@curlycoat2 is Jo Hausler herself, if I understood correctly from reading this thread. I do make colorant infusions as she does, for sure. Would love to see more of what she is doing now & to hear from her in the forums.

Yes, that is the main reason I haven't done the colorants in lye method yet, because I do a lot of multicolored soaps. I am working my way around that, which sometimes takes some mulling over before beginning to experiment as I then need to plan a design around how I am using my colorants.

I’ve been able to achieve a very nice pink from madder pigment extracted with isopropyl alcohol (also shown in first soap pic in this thread)

Yes, I did see that, which was pretty exciting. My hesitation in using tinctured colorants was the effect the alcohol, or alcohol residue, could potentially have on my soap batter. Now I know it can be done, which I am feeling quite stoked about! Time to buy another case of pure grain alcohol as I have some playing to be doing!

and also beautiful maroon and purple colors when indigo (manufactured) was added along with the madder extract.

I saw Holly from YouTube making a beautiful purple using indigo & rhubarb root, I believe it was. My jaw dropped open when I saw the super-intense result! I have not yet mixed indigo with madder, but have done so with other natural colorants. I like mixing clays with various plant colorants as well, which has worked quite nicely. I still have lots of farting around to do

@QuasiQuadrant after you make the oil maceration, do you strain the oil, or do you use the the maceration without straining?

When I do a maceration, I normally don't strain it. It's *quite* thick & not at all easy to strain. Plus the added plant material which has been well saturated with oil results in very intense colours which are far less prone to fading.

If wanting to strain plant material from my colorants, I use my pre-infused oils, exactly as Jo Hausler does, which makes things easier. Often the plant material is so well settled in the bottoms of my jars that all I have to do is pout the oil off. But if I have shaken the jar beforehand to obtain a more intense color, I sometimes do strain it.

Love these natural colorant threads

 

[ewhitake]

If it helps further I use 172 grams of boiling water to 6 grams of ground madder root (I grind it up in an electric coffee grinder) and use a jelly bag to sieve out the madder root from the cold tea before adding the lye. At this point I reweigh and add a little more water as I lose some in the sieving out process. I always give the jelly bag a good squeeze to get as much colour and liquid out as possible - easier to do before you add the lye rather than after! The calendula petals just 2 grams (or a big pinch) added straight to the hot lye. I can't remember the quantities for paprika but it wouldn't have been a huge amount. This is based on an oil weight of 600 grams and a water/lye ratio of 2:1.

I just saw this post and have a question because I got some madder and thought I could infuse it like I do Tumeric or Paprika. Made a bloody mess and my oil was a nice yellow.
Anyway, the madder "tea" is used as a partial or full water replacement? The color will shift when lye is added. How do you determine how much madder to use in the teal to get specific colors?

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

Hi. Long time since thus thread was "live". I can't remember how I came up with my quantities of madder. Just trial and error I guess. I used to make the madder tea with boiling water using the whole amount of water for the recipe, plus a little extra following straining cos you always lose a bit during the straining process. But since I last posted in this thread I have changed my method slightly and use less water. I used to use 2:1 water/lye ratio. More recently I have used probably more like 1.75/1 ratio for my pink soap and 1.5/1 ratio for other soaps. This successfully git rid of soda ash. The reason the pink soap ratio was slightly higher is the recipe included silk, which I found difficult to dissolve in lower water amounts. I don't recall there being a significant change in colour in any of my soaps after I started making them with less water. I also don't gell any of my soaps because, personally I find gelling natural colourings makes them look muddy. I actually refrigerate my soaps instead. This used to cause me huge problems with dida ash, but I found reducing the water amount git rid if this problem.

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

I mean soda ash of course.