Lard LS

[Servant4Christ]

Paging @IrishLass @Susie @DeeAnna @AliOop and anyone else who may have experience here.

I've been reading the everlong LS thread posted by Irishlass ~10 yrs ago (loved reading Deanna's reactions and step by step with temps).... Anyway, I'm considering using the same method with a different recipe using high lard. Would the PS80 keep the pearly look from falling to the bottom? I'm not a stranger to making LS, but I'm far from a pro and I would seriously love not having to cook my paste on the stove or in the crockpot.

 

[AliOop]

You can make any LS recipe by the cold process method if you start with melted oils and hot KOH solution. Just mix to paste stage, cover, and let it saponify.

However, dilution with stearic acid is going to require heat, including hot water. Otherwise, the stearic will solidify, and you will have white hard bits in your soap. Ask me how I know.

To answer your question, I honestly don’t know if the PS80 is needed to prevent separation of the pearliness. I thought it was used to speed up dilution, and to keep the SF and fragrance emulsified or at least solubilized in the final product.

 

[Servant4Christ]

You can make any LS recipe by the cold process method if you start with melted oils and hot KOH solution. Just mix to paste stage, cover, and let it saponify.

However, dilution with stearic acid is going to require heat, including hot water. Otherwise, the stearic will solidify, and you will have white hard bits in your soap. Ask me how I know.

To answer your question, I honestly don’t know if the PS80 is needed to prevent separation of the pearliness. I thought it was used to speed up dilution, and to keep the SF and fragrance emulsified or at least solubilized in the final product.

Stearic? I'm not looking at the creamy cocoa shea recipe, but the 3bees one. Dilution is with SL to help speed it up in a canning jar in a hot water bath. Or are you referring to the stearic already present in the lard? I keep reading that the pearly stuff eventually separates from the diluted soap and the snow falls to the bottom and has to be shaken to recombine. That's why I'm wondering if the PS80 would work. Sounds like an experiment is in order.

 

[DeeAnna]

It would help if you'd post a recipe you're thinking of using. I'm not sure I understand what you want to do without a recipe to look at.

I've made LS with a high % of lard but no added stearic. The soap is milky looking, but it definitely isn't pearly. Example:

Castor Bean Oil 5%
Coconut Oil 76° 15%
Lard 80%

I'm looking at some of this soap right now. There is a thin scum of white material floating on the top and some white sediment on the bottom. The soap in the middle has a translucent milky appearance. If I shake the jar to mix the solids with the liquid soap, the mixed soap gets a bit more opaque, but the soap definitely is not pearly.

It's the addition of stearic acid to the finished, diluted soap that creates the pearly look. The stearic acid also functions as a thickener and superfat.

IIRC, Irish Lass added about 2% stearic after dilution. The % is based on total weight of fats. You calculate the soap recipe without this added stearic -- you want the stearic to remain intact, not be converted into soap.

 

[AliOop]

Stearic? I'm not looking at the creamy cocoa shea recipe, but the 3bees one. Dilution is with SL to help speed it up in a canning jar in a hot water bath. Or are you referring to the stearic already present in the lard? I keep reading that the pearly stuff eventually separates from the diluted soap and the snow falls to the bottom and has to be shaken to recombine. That's why I'm wondering if the PS80 would work. Sounds like an experiment is in order.

Sorry, I assumed you were talking about the Creamy Cocoa-Shea recipe, since that's the one with the pearly look. I haven't looked at the 3bees recipe for a long time but don't remember that it was advertised as being pearly (which is why it didn't come to mind as the recipe you were talking about).

EDIT: Just saw DeeAnna's post, above. I agree that the stearic creates the pearly look, and that lard alone doesn't do that. I've also experienced the same phenomena, i.e., separated white stuff on both the top and the bottom. This has happened both in my high lard recipes, and in the Creamy Cocoa-Shea recipe with the stearic. Adding more PS80 helped, but didn't completely prevent it.

To go on a bit of a rabbit trail from your original post, I've actually moved away from using stearic acid since realizing that everyone in our house really prefers foaming hand soap. Using the foamer pumps requires very high dilution (often 5:1 water-paste). Stearic acid, or any other thickener, would be counterproductive to that end goal.

This high dilution, combined with removing the stearic, has also eliminated the white separated layers. All I need is a little PS80 for the SF and the FO/EO, and this is what I get (pic of LS with zero separation that was diluted and bottled on Sept 29):

Anyway, I'm sorry for going off topic a bit about your original question, but hopefully having that info will come in handy as you experiment with your recipe. Let us know how it turns out!

 

[Servant4Christ]

That is very helpful. I thought the stearic in lard gave that pearly look. I didn't realize it's the added pure stearic acid. Thank you for clarifying this for me. @AliOop, can I ask how much SF and FO/EO you are using in your diluted lard LS? I'd like to try it. My boys will love foaming soap and I'll enjoy it not being concentrated enough to strip my already dry, sensitive skin.
If I decide to attempt the added stearic for a pearly look, I'll try it with a high olive or high oleic sunflower recipe. I'd use the 3bees recipe, but that's too much coconut for my skin in any soap. Sensitive, highly reactive skin is a real pain sometimes.

 

[AliOop]

My high-lard LS recipe has the same ingredients as @DeeAnna's but with different ratios:

55% lard
25% castor oil (it's wonderful in LS!)
20% coconut oil

2% SF
1% fragrance (EO or FO).

Usually I make the paste at 0% SF and add meadowfoam seed oil as SF during dilution (since my skin loves it). But you can make the paste with the 2% SF included if you prefer.

The weight of my PS80 equals the combined weight of SF + fragrance. However, some EOs and FOs seem to require a bit more PS80 to remain in solution. So if I see some separation after a couple of days, I just stir in a bit more PS80.

 

[Servant4Christ]

Mine will be a bit different from both of yours.

70 lard
20 castor
10 coconut

I definitely like the idea of 0 SF for the paste to lower the possibility of oils going rancid in the paste.

Thank you both for replying so quickly! I'm going to make paste tonight. I just ordered some PS80 and the FO/EO I want to use for this, so I'll wait to dilute when they arrive next week.

 

[AliOop]

Mine will be a bit different from both of yours.

70 lard
20 castor
10 coconut

I definitely like the idea of 0 SF for the paste to lower the possibility of oils going rancid in the paste.

That's a solid recipe, and yes, that's exactly why I don't SF the paste. Just in case, I also store the paste in a zip-top bag in the fridge until I'm ready to dilute more of it.

We go through it fairly quickly, so I don't add a preservative to the diluted soap. Living life on the edge, we are.

 

[Servant4Christ]

I don't use a preservative in LS, but it probably makes sense to if it's diluted enough for a foamer, I suppose. Pretty sure we'll go through it fast enough not to need one either. Now, if I were diluting soap for foamer bottles intended to give as gifts, I'd be asking more questions about if I should use a preservative.

 

[DeeAnna]

That is very helpful. I thought the stearic in lard gave that pearly look.,,,

The stearic acid in the lard is turned into soap, so it isn't just stearic acid anymore. I don't know how you could prevent the stearic acid in lard from saponifying.