Surfactants...

[Tara08]

Hello! I have recently started to experiment with making whipped soap from scratch. Wondering what others thoughts are on different surfactant. I use cocamidoproyl betaine and SCI with some decyl glucoside. It seems that decyl glucoside adds some nice bubble instead of just lather/foaming. I have heard that coco glucoside also adds nice bubble. Has/does another else used 3 surfactants? Is there such a thing as too much surfactant? I just want a nice combo of lather and bubble. Thanks!

 

[Misschief]

Hello! I have recently started to experiment with making whipped soap from scratch. Wondering what others thoughts are on different surfactant. I use cocamidoproyl betaine and SCI with some decyl glucoside. It seems that decyl glucoside adds some nice bubble instead of just lather/foaming. I have heard that coco glucoside also adds nice bubble. Has/does another else used 3 surfactants? Is there such a thing as too much surfactant? I just want a nice combo of lather and bubble. Thanks!

Check out DIY Bath & Body on Etsy. Sandra's Foaming Bath Butter is amazing!

https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/726...click_sum=938b934d&ref=shop_home_recs_5&crt=1

 

[Tara08]

I am making the whipped soap from scratch myself, not buying a pre-made base. Just trying to figure what the best surfactants are too add bubbliness. But thank you for your response.

 

[artemis]

I am making the whipped soap from scratch myself, not buying a pre-made base. Just trying to figure what the best surfactants are too add bubbliness. But thank you for your response.

The link is for the recipe.

 

[AliOop]

I am making the whipped soap from scratch myself, not buying a pre-made base. Just trying to figure what the best surfactants are too add bubbliness. But thank you for your response.

@artemis is correct. The link is not to buy a premade base; the link is for a recipe to make your own base, that can be customized into sugar scrubs and other products. It's an amazing recipe - the most requested out of all products that I make.

 

[Tara08]

I see. My fault, I should have read further into the description. I do have a recipe of my own that I am working with and like. I was just playing with surfactants and wondering what other people have used, if it's different or in addition to the usual cocamidopropyl betaine and sci. I read that coco glucoside was good, but have never used that one.

 

[CecileBC]

Hi Tara08,
I would also be interested in this issue... I have only tried Sodium Cocoyl glutamate and I have just received a sample of decyl glucoside, which I haven't tried yet. It will have to wait until the end of august (holidays !).

 

[AliOop]

I see. My fault, I should have read further into the description. I do have a recipe of my own that I am working with and like. I was just playing with surfactants and wondering what other people have used, if it's different or in addition to the usual cocamidopropyl betaine and sci. I read that coco glucoside was good, but have never used that one.

Do you have a subscription to Susan Barclay’s blog, Swift Crafty Monkey? Even a $1/mo subscription gets you access to all the definitions and basic explanations, and it can be cancelled at any time. She explains each surfactant in depth, including which types work with which other ingredients. In other words, some ingredients can cause certain surfactants not to work as expected.

You can also read some info about that topic for free on the Humblebee and Me website.

 

[Tara08]

Hi Tara08,
I would also be interested in this issue... I have only tried Sodium Cocoyl glutamate and I have just received a sample of decyl glucoside, which I haven't tried yet. It will have to wait until the end of august (holidays !).

Hello CecileBC!
Right now, I add decyl glucoside with my SCI and my cocamidopropyl betaine. I find that it adds more bubble then the other too, which I like. I read that coco glucoside is the best for bubbles in things like whipped soap. I just bought some, so I am going to replace the decyl glucoside in my recipe with it and see how it differs. There doesn't seem to be a lot soap makers on here that make whipped soap, but I will come back and post what happens when I use the new surfactant. I am planing on making some more today.

 

[Tara08]

Do you have a subscription to Susan Barclay’s blog, Swift Crafty Monkey? Even a $1/mo subscription gets you access to all the definitions and basic explanations, and it can be cancelled at any time. She explains each surfactant in depth, including which types work with which other ingredients. In other words, some ingredients can cause certain surfactants not to work as expected.

You can also read some info about that topic for free on the Humblebee and Me website.

Thanks for the info! I follow Marie from Humblee Bee & Me on Patreon. She is so nice and just such a wealth of information. I will have to check out Susan Barclay too.

 

[Tara08]

Hello CecileBC!
Right now, I add decyl glucoside with my SCI and my cocamidopropyl betaine. I find that it adds more bubble then the other too, which I like. I read that coco glucoside is the best for bubbles in things like whipped soap. I just bought some, so I am going to replace the decyl glucoside in my recipe with it and see how it differs. There doesn't seem to be a lot soap makers on here that make whipped soap, but I will come back and post what happens when I use the new surfactant. I am planing on making some more today.

How do you like the sodium coco glutomate? I have never used that one. Is it powder or liquid? I just loath having to wait 20 min minimum for SCI to melt. Everyone I have researched always makes whipped soap with SCI and cocamidopropyl betaine. I wonder if they are just the most popular or if replacing them is not suggested.

 

[Saponificarian]

Coco Glucoside does add a good amount of bubbles, this is one of the reasons it is used for bubble bath. However, pay attention to your PH as it has high pH, and you won't be able to use some preservatives without dropping the pH. Something to also consider if you are trying to formulate a product with a balanced pH.

 

[Tara08]

Coco Glucoside does add a good amount of bubbles, this is one of the reasons it is used for bubble bath. However, pay attention to your PH as it has high pH, and you won't be able to use some preservatives without dropping the pH. Something to also consider if you are trying to formulate a product with a balanced pH.

Hi!
Thanks so much for your response! I did see that the ph was high. I do have a pH meter. Would you lower ph using a citric acid/distilled water solution?

 

[Saponificarian]

Hi!
Thanks so much for your response! I did see that the ph was high. I do have a pH meter. Would you lower ph using a citric acid/distilled water solution?

Yes, citric acid would work but I am partial to lactic acid for the added skin benefits.

 

[Tara08]

Yes, citric acid would work but I am partial to lactic acid for the added skin benefits.

I am not familiar with lactic acid, is it vegan? Do you use it the same as citric? I do a 50/50.

 

[paradisi]

Coco Glucoside does add a good amount of bubbles, this is one of the reasons it is used for bubble bath. However, pay attention to your PH as it has high pH, and you won't be able to use some preservatives without dropping the pH. Something to also consider if you are trying to formulate a product with a balanced pH.

Something else to consider is that the glucosides are increasingly found to be allergens. Worst in leave on applications but also in shampoo etc. In 2017 they were named Allergen of the Year by a dermatologist's society.

https://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(17)32539-2/fulltext

 

[CecileBC]

SCI

How do you like the sodium coco glutomate? I have never used that one. Is it powder or liquid? I just loath having to wait 20 min minimum for SCI to melt. Everyone I have researched always makes whipped soap with SCI and cocamidopropyl betaine. I wonder if they are just the most popular or if replacing them is not suggested.

SCG is liquid, and I use it now that SCI has been declared not compatible with natural and organic certification. Funny enough, I would need a powder surfactant for a cleansing powder formulation, so my SCG being liquid is a pain for me ! I have to mix it at high speed forever for it to not clog my powder...
But it is gentle on the skin (at low concentrations - I have a very sensitive skin so cannot go over 12%...)

 

[AliOop]

I just loath having to wait 20 min minimum for SCI to melt.

Per Sandra LaBossiere (DIY Bath & Body Shoppe) and Susan Barclay (Swift Crafty Monkey), combining the powder with the liquid helps the powder to melt faster.

So, I mix the SCI and SLSa with my liquid surfactants, and then melt in the microwave, 2 minutes at a time with stirring in between. An ~800g mix is usually completely melted and smooth in less than 5 minutes.

 

[Tara08]

Per Sandra LaBossiere (DIY Bath & Body Shoppe) and Susan Barclay (Swift Crafty Monkey), combining the powder with the liquid helps the powder to melt faster.

So, I mix the SCI and SLSa with my liquid surfactants, and then melt in the microwave, 2 minutes at a time with stirring in between. An ~800g mix is usually completely melted and smooth in less than 5 minutes.

I do the same, except I use the double boiler method. The microwave makes me nervous for some reason. Lol! Next time I will use the microwave. So it completely melts down? No having to "sift through" the mixture to make sure there are no SCI clumps left? Does SLSA melt down the same way? I ask because I found SLSA to be a total pain in the ass with double boiling. SCI behaved much better.

 

[AliOop]

Honestly, I find the double-boiler to be a complete pain! I only use it for chocolate making, because, well, chocolate.

Both the SCI and the SLSa do melt this way. Because I stir well in between blasts, I don't tend to end up with lumps. If I do, I stick-blend them out if the mixture has enough moisture for that, and if not, then I mash them against the side of the container and stir some more.

ETA: The SLSa is a much lower percentage in my recipe than the SCI, and I just remembered that I usually sift it over the liquid surfactant and give it a stir before adding the SCI. My thought is that this gives the SLSa a head-start by pre-moistening it in the liquid. HTH!