Surfactants...

[Tara08]

Do you prefer SCI or SLSA? Just curious. I think I will try the SLSA and the microwave in my next batch. Thanks so much for your advice

 

[AliOop]

SCI is much gentler for my skin than SLSa, which I can only use in small percentages. I have no issues with SCI and use it at high percentages with no issues.

Some friends cannot tolerate SLSa at all, so I've made some shampoo bars and bath bombs without any SLSa at all.

 

[Chelsea J]

I do the same, except I use the double boiler method. The microwave makes me nervous for some reason. Lol! Next time I will use the microwave. So it completely melts down? No having to "sift through" the mixture to make sure there are no SCI clumps left? Does SLSA melt down the same way? I ask because I found SLSA to be a total pain in the *** with double boiling. SCI behaved much better.

I dissolve mine in beakers (Pyrex would work) right on my glass cooktop on low. It melts easily - no clumps. I also grind my SCI noodles into a powder so it dissolves more easily. I find SLSa works just as well using this method. Of course, you have to pay total attention to what’s happening. But if you do, it’s quick and easy. Microwaving ingredients freaks me out!

 

[Chelsea J]

Hello! I have recently started to experiment with making whipped soap from scratch. Wondering what others thoughts are on different surfactant. I use cocamidoproyl betaine and SCI with some decyl glucoside. It seems that decyl glucoside adds some nice bubble instead of just lather/foaming. I have heard that coco glucoside also adds nice bubble. Has/does another else used 3 surfactants? Is there such a thing as too much surfactant? I just want a nice combo of lather and bubble. Thanks!

You have to calculate your active surfactant matter (ASM) of your formulas. There is such a thing as too much!!! I first determine the appropriate ASM for whatever I’m making and then calculate the ASM of each ingredient which tells me if I’m too high or too low.

Both SCI and Cocamidapropyl Betaine are amphoteric. Adding an ionic surfactant into your formula will generally offer richer and more dense bubbles.

As for glucosides, they do increase foam! I’ve only played with a few, but have had no issues at all with them and have extremely sensitive skin.

 

[Tara08]

I dissolve mine in beakers (Pyrex would work) right on my glass cooktop on low. It melts easily - no clumps. I also grind my SCI noodles into a powder so it dissolves more easily. I find SLSa works just as well using this method. Of course, you have to pay total attention to what’s happening. But if you do, it’s quick and easy. Microwaving ingredients freaks me out!

The microwave freaks me out too. I just microwaved my Glycerin, cocamidopropyl betaine, coco glucoside, and SLSA. Caught it rising to the point of overflow. I'm lucky I caught it, I like double boiling because I can see what's happening. I've gotten so much good info from this thread so far. I'm a little confused by what you mean with calculate your active surfactant matter. I started with a recipe I found online and then just began tweaking and experimenting with other things until I got something I liked. So I wonder what I am not doing to make sure it's a good and safe product now.

 

[Chelsea J]

The microwave freaks me out too. I just microwaved my Glycerin, cocamidopropyl betaine, coco glucoside, and SLSA. Caught it rising to the point of overflow. I'm lucky I caught it, I like double boiling because I can see what's happening. I've gotten so much good info from this thread so far. I'm a little confused by what you mean with calculate your active surfactant matter. I started with a recipe I found online and then just began tweaking and experimenting with other things until I got something I liked. So I wonder what I am not doing to make sure it's a good and safe product now.

Glad you caught it before it became a microwave cleaning festival!!!

ASM is the actual surfactant matter of your ingredients. Cocamidapropyl betaine runs about 30%. Powdered Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate (Bio-Terge) is about 88%. Shampoos, body washes, hand soap, household cleaners and so forth all have unique preferred ASM ranges. There are loads of calculators online and your supplier should be able to cite the ASM of any surfactant you purchase.

I hope that helps! I use ChatGPT to calculate my ASM in body washes, etc.

 

[AliOop]

The microwave freaks me out too. I just microwaved my Glycerin, cocamidopropyl betaine, coco glucoside, and SLSA. Caught it rising to the point of overflow. I'm lucky I caught it, I like double boiling because I can see what's happening. I've gotten so much good info from this thread so far. I'm a little confused by what you mean with calculate your active surfactant matter. I started with a recipe I found online and then just began tweaking and experimenting with other things until I got something I liked. So I wonder what I am not doing to make sure it's a good and safe product now.

Yikes, I should have warned to keep an eye on it while melting in the microwave, as it does puff up.

Everyone’s microwave is different in power, size, etc., and we also use different containers, but after awhile, you get to know how your mix will react and whether to go in 1-minute or 2-minute intervals. I like to use a large Pyrex mixing cup with at least 50% headspace so I can see what’s happening, and because the glass heats the mixture more evenly and quickly than my plastic container, which is not transparent and doesn’t let me watch the mix. But I have used plastic at times and been ok - it just takes a bit longer than glass.

I also purchase only powdered SCI, not noodles. If you have noodles, then I’d grind them to powder first, as recommended by @Chelsea J. As an aside, I’m totally jelly of her lab set-up with beakers that go right on the burner, etc. Goals!

HTH!

 

[Tara08]

Is it the same as the usage rates of ingredients?

Yikes, I should have warned to keep an eye on it while melting in the microwave, as it does puff up.

Everyone’s microwave is different in power, size, etc., and we also use different containers, but after awhile, you get to know how your mix will react and whether to go in 1-minute or 2-minute intervals. I like to use a large Pyrex mixing cup with at least 50% headspace so I can see what’s happening, and because the glass heats the mixture more evenly and quickly than my plastic container, which is not transparent and doesn’t let me watch the mix. But I have used plastic at times and been ok - it just takes a bit longer than glass.

I also purchase only powdered SCI, not noodles. If you have noodles, then I’d grind them to powder first, as recommended by @Chelsea J. As an aside, I’m totally jelly of her lab set-up with beakers that go right on the burner, etc. Goals!

HTH!

 

[Tara08]

Thanks for the details. I tried SCI noodles a while back, at the time didn't know about grinding them and they never melted. It was really frustrating. I really just have a single cook top with a wide deep pan for double boiling. I can fit a couple decent sized glass mixing cups or beakers in it at once. I usually microwave my butters, oils, stearic and such. I just double boil my surfactants. I hope to soon upgrade to a double cooktop. Super excited, lol! I'm not selling yet, so my seput. is pretty small. Right now it's just small batches and experimenting with ingredients to get it all figured out before I decide what I want to focus on.

 

[Tara08]

Hello CecileBC!
Right now, I add decyl glucoside with my SCI and my cocamidopropyl betaine. I find that it adds more bubble then the other too, which I like. I read that coco glucoside is the best for bubbles in things like whipped soap. I just bought some, so I am going to replace the decyl glucoside in my recipe with it and see how it differs. There doesn't seem to be a lot soap makers on here that make whipped soap, but I will come back and post what happens when I use the new surfactant. I am planing on making some more today.

Note on coco glucoside. I sub this for my decyl glucoside to see what the difference would be. Coco glucoside made my recipe very stringy and sticky, not pleasant at all to touch. I was within the usage range too. Not sure if anyone else has used this ingredient but I'm not a fan.

 

[CecileBC]

Can you advise on some tutorials using surfactants ?

 

[Tara08]

Can you advise on some tutorials using surfactants ?

Check out Marie Rayma with Humble Bee & Me, she has an ingredient encyclopedia that I reference quite a bit. I also like Tara Lee Skincare. She has a lot of you tube videos with good info and recipes. Those are my main two for things like lotions, scrubs, etc. I also like Jerika Zimmerman, she is mostly a cold process soap maker but does a few other things too. On her patreon, she gives you a opportunity to ask her questions, which I do a lot and she is always really nice and helpful.

 

[Chelsea J]

Can you advise on some tutorials using surfactants ?

I started with Humblebeeandme’s info on ASM. She has a pretty good list of the common surfactants. SwiftCraftyMonkey has ASM info, but I haven’t found it compiled into a nice one-page reference sheet. But, once I understood that ASM existed, I learned the most by googling the ASM of each of my surfactants, the suggested ASM for the given application (shampoo/body wash/hand soap), and doing a lot of reading on Chemist’s Corner.

I just realized that makes is sound way more complicated than it is. Google Humblebee Active Surfactant Matter and start from there. You’ll quickly understand it. Do the other reading once you have the ASM of each of your surfactants.

Hope that helps!

 

[CecileBC]

Check out Marie Rayma with Humble Bee & Me, she has an ingredient encyclopedia that I reference quite a bit. I also like Tara Lee Skincare. She has a lot of you tube videos with good info and recipes. Those are my main two for things like lotions, scrubs, etc. I also like Jerika Zimmerman, she is mostly a cold process soap maker but does a few other things too. On her patreon, she gives you a opportunity to ask her questions, which I do a lot and she is always really nice and helpful.

Thank you Tara08, Humblebee and me is a favourite of course and I will definitely get into her tutorials again to clarify things. Thanks for the tips !

 

[CecileBC]

I started with Humblebeeandme’s info on ASM. She has a pretty good list of the common surfactants. SwiftCraftyMonkey has ASM info, but I haven’t found it compiled into a nice one-page reference sheet. But, once I understood that ASM existed, I learned the most by googling the ASM of each of my surfactants, the suggested ASM for the given application (shampoo/body wash/hand soap), and doing a lot of reading on Chemist’s Corner.

I just realized that makes is sound way more complicated than it is. Google Humblebee Active Surfactant Matter and start from there. You’ll quickly understand it. Do the other reading once you have the ASM of each of your surfactants.

Hope that helps!

Thank you Chelsea, yes it does help
Let's dive into it !! Thanks

 

[Tara08]

Thank you Tara08, Humblebee and me is a favourite of course and I will definitely get into her tutorials again to clarify things. Thanks for the tips !

Ofcourse! I thought it might be hard to find a group on here that is experienced/ focused on more skincare type products. I have bounced around so many different avenues the past couple years, but I really enjoy making the things I am now. It's nice to have found you all! Is anyone selling their products? I haven't gotten there yet, but that is my end goal.

 

[AliOop]

@Misschief sells her B&B products at a local market. @cmzaha used to sell hers at markets before she closed down her business. I've tried various products from both of them, and all were fantastic!

I donate a bunch of mine to be sold at our church's annual Christmas boutique. My foaming sugar scrubs from the DIY Bath & Body recipe are the runaway favorite, followed by lotions, lip balms, lip scrubs, and lotion bar sticks (aka body butter bars in mini deo tubes). Some of my friends purchase directly from me, but I've resisted making it a business because it takes the fun out of it for me.

 

[CecileBC]

Ofcourse! I thought it might be hard to find a group on here that is experienced/ focused on more skincare type products. I have bounced around so many different avenues the past couple years, but I really enjoy making the things I am now. It's nice to have found you all! Is anyone selling their products? I haven't gotten there yet, but that is my end goal.

I agree Tara, this forum is such a great source of information. I am only starting my business, and so far I make lotion bars for the body, face and massages - I make soap only for my family and friends. My aim is to add a range of powder products such as a powder face cleanser for normal skin and one for sensitive skin - therefore the trial and error period...
Whipped soap is not on my list, although it looks fabulous, but I try to make products that do not require glass or even less plastic containers - only cardboard.
Do you make other bath and body products apart from soap and whipped soap ?

 

[Tara08]

I agree Tara, this forum is such a great source of information. I am only starting my business, and so far I make lotion bars for the body, face and massages - I make soap only for my family and friends. My aim is to add a range of powder products such as a powder face cleanser for normal skin and one for sensitive skin - therefore the trial and error period...
Whipped soap is not on my list, although it looks fabulous, but I try to make products that do not require glass or even less plastic containers - only cardboard.
Do you make other bath and body products apart from soap and whipped soap ?

Hello!
I have dabbled in so much the last couple years....hot process soap, various Iotions and body butters, body scrubs, face scrubs, clay face masks, whipped soap, lip balm, lip gloss, cream eye shadows, cream brushes and highlighters. Also candle making, wax melts and room diffusers. I love making hot process soap, hate the curing time. So my focus has shifted to products that I don't have to cure for more the 24 hours. Been really hard to nail down what I want to focus on, but I have a body butter formula and a foaming body scrub that I really like. Everyone says to start with just a couple products when beginning to sell. So hard to widdle it all down!!

 

[CecileBC]

Hello!
I have dabbled in so much the last couple years....hot process soap, various Iotions and body butters, body scrubs, face scrubs, clay face masks, whipped soap, lip balm, lip gloss, cream eye shadows, cream brushes and highlighters. Also candle making, wax melts and room diffusers. I love making hot process soap, hate the curing time. So my focus has shifted to products that I don't have to cure for more the 24 hours. Been really hard to nail down what I want to focus on, but I have a body butter formula and a foaming body scrub that I really like. Everyone says to start with just a couple products when beginning to sell. So hard to widdle it all down!!

I know ! I guess we all do the same ! It is a matter of finding what we like to make the best, but also something that is not made by the hundreds locally ! In my case, there are sooo many soap makers where I live, that I gathered I wasn't going to be any better than them, and therefore the logic of it narrowed down my choices... It is a long road !