Soaping 101 liquid soapmaking video?

[IrishLass]

I can't speak for anyone else, but mine does very well with my FOs, and I don't need to add a lot of scent either. I normally scent it somewhere between .3% and 1% of the final weight of the finished soap, depending on the scent strength of my FO.

What kind of olive oil are you using? For what it's worth, I use the Kirkland brand Pure Olive Oil from Costco, which I believe is Grade B olive oil (i.e., not virgin or extra virgin).


IrishLass

 

[zzzma]

Oh...I used EVOO! Our Costco is too far so I'll check what Sam's has. We've only ever had EVOO around here because that's all DH uses to cook with. Do the lower grades of OO have less scent? Obviously I can't open them in the store and start comparing smells..lol Thanks for the tip!

 

[dingi]

For what it's worth, I use the Kirkland brand Pure Olive Oil from Costco, which I believe is Grade B olive oil (i.e., not virgin or extra virgin).


IrishLass

I was thinking that Virgin or Extra Virgin Olive oil is needed to make LS. But now it surprised me that you are using just pure Olive oil. As coconut oil will create good bubble/lather and olive oil individually would not produce lather, if one use Virgin or Extra Virgin olive oil 65 % (with Coconut oil 25 % and Castor Oil 10 %), will it reduce lather? Instead as you said, just any good brand pure olive oil is better in this recipe to give more lather as virgin olive olive will be more potent hindering lather? Is that a reason why you use pure olive oil instead of Virgin/Extra virgin olive oil?

 

[DeeAnna]

The lower grades of olive oil are used for soaping because of lower cost. Also the scent is milder, and that can be a plus in soaping (as well as in some cooking). The lather should be about the same regardless of grade. Save the virgin or extra virgin for food!

 

[dingi]

The lower grades of olive oil are used for soaping because of lower cost. Also the scent is milder, and that can be a plus in soaping (as well as in some cooking). The lather should be about the same regardless of grade. Save the virgin or extra virgin for food!

Thanks DeeAnna. That's nice to know that one can save Virgin/Extra virgin Olive oil for food and to use lower grade for soap.

 

[Susie]

I use the Sam's store brand of OO, it is light yellow (so it does not discolor my soap), and it does not smell of OO.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

For what it's worth, I use the Kirkland brand Pure Olive Oil from Costco, which I believe is Grade B olive oil (i.e., not virgin or extra virgin).

There are actually no letter grades in the government standards.

The grade of the Kirkland Pure Olive Oil is simply "olive oil," which designates a blend of "refined olive oil" and "virgin olive oil" (typically a lot more refined than virgin). This Kirkland product is the highest of the grades suited for soaping. "Refined olive oil" is the next grade down after "olive oil."

Below those grades is "olive-pomace oil," which is a blend of "refined olive-pomace oil" and "virgin olive oil." This too is an edible oil that's good for soaping.

The two inedible grades are "lampante olive oil" and "crude olive-pomace oil." Lampante is virgin oil that sucks and needs refining. The other is unrefined solvent-extracted oil.

Sorry about the OO geekout.

 

[dingi]

I use the Sam's store brand of OO, it is light yellow (so it does not discolor my soap), and it does not smell of OO.

There are actually no letter grades in the government standards.

The grade of the Kirkland Pure Olive Oil is simply "olive oil," which designates a blend of "refined olive oil" and "virgin olive oil" (typically a lot more refined than virgin). This Kirkland product is the highest of the grades suited for soaping. "Refined olive oil" is the next grade down after "olive oil."

Below those grades is "olive-pomace oil," which is a blend of "refined olive-pomace oil" and "virgin olive oil." This too is an edible oil that's good for soaping.

The two inedible grades are "lampante olive oil" and "crude olive-pomace oil." Lampante is virgin oil that sucks and needs refining. The other is unrefined solvent-extracted oil.

Sorry about the OO geekout.

Thanks Susie for your info. I also heard that olive oil pomace should not be used in LS making. Some where in the internet also people complain after using pomace olive oil, that the final trace of soap paste become bad and useless. Is that true?
Thanks topofmurrayhill for giving detailed info about grades of olive oil

 

[Susie]

I only bought pomace OO once. I did not like how it behaved in bar soap, and I truly did not appreciate it messing up my liquid soap. I tossed the whole batch. I don't remember now if it separated or what, but I hate to throw anything away, so that was bad enough to waste a whole bunch.

 

[Misschief]

I only bought pomace OO once. I did not like how it behaved in bar soap, and I truly did not appreciate it messing up my liquid soap. I tossed the whole batch. I don't remember now if it separated or what, but I hate to throw anything away, so that was bad enough to waste a whole bunch.

I use OO pomace all the time for my soap. The only issue I've ever had is that the colour of the oil is inconsistent between cans. I have read not to use it in liquid soap but I've had no issues with it in my CP soaps.

 

[Seawolfe]

I use pomace OO from some soap supply company that had a sale. I've only used it in bar soap, and cant tell the difference from the Kirkland OO. I was told it traces faster, but not that I've seen. Given that olive oil is THE most adulterated oil, I always wonder if that contributed when someone has a bad result. But then why would pomace OO be adulterated?

 

[DeeAnna]

Edible pomace OO (the lowest grade of OO I've ever seen to purchase) is allowed to have a higher % of unsaponifiable content and a higher % of free fatty acids compared with the better grades of OO.

That doesn't mean any given pomace OO WILL have a higher unsaponfiable and fatty acid content, just that it CAN. This greater variability in pomace may be the reason why some people have had trouble using pomace for soaping and others don't.

I agree with you, Seawolfe, that the other issue is adulteration. It's hard to say if pomace OO is adulterated as often as the higher grades, because the reports I've read about this problem tend to focus on adulteration of the better grades. I would think just the variability in pomace allowed by the standards is enough to affect how it will work in soap.

 

[Susie]

DeeAnna, that is pretty much my thoughts. I just decided to find one brand I can purchase locally and stick to that. The OO from Sam's seems to be the most consistent product I can buy locally for a reasonable price. I did go down on the % of OO I typically used when I started using it consistently, as I just did not seem to need as much to get a good result.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

Edible pomace OO (the lowest grade of OO I've ever seen to purchase) is allowed to have a higher % of unsaponifiable content and a higher % of free fatty acids compared with the better grades of OO.

The unsaponifiable content can be a little higher for the edible pomace grades, but the FFA standards are the same.

The lowest FFA levels are required for the refined grades. Refined olive oil and refined olive-pomace oil can have at most 0.3% FFA as oleic acid.

The grades that are blends of refined and virgin are allowed a higher FFA level. Olive oil and olive-pomace oil can have up to 1.0% FFA.

Extra-virgin olive oil can have up to 0.8%, slightly better than the blends but realistically more than the refined oils.

One might not guess, but the highest allowable FFA level is for virgin olive oil, which can be up to 2.0%. Higher than that is deemed unfit for consumption and would have to be refined.

Names of official grades are underlined in an effort to make things clearer.

More geeking out. Some time ago I read and downloaded both the USDA and IOC standards. Very educational.

Also potentially confusing. I'm not sure our own suppliers always totally understand what they are selling or label it precisely. We often talk about pomace oil as a singular thing, but olive-pomace oil, refined olive-pomace oil and crude olive-pomace oil are distinctly different things.

When we hear about pomace oil accelerating trace, only the inedible crude grade has an obvious reason for doing so, because the FFA level can be very high. I don't know if that's the explanation, but it makes sense.

 

[DeeAnna]

I stand corrected on the free fatty acids. That's what I get for speaking from memory.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

I personally don't like keeping my main pot on the scale, taring/pouring, taring/pouring each oil directly into it one right after the other. I used to do that, but as Ngian said, if a little more oil falls into the pot than the amount you intended, it's very difficult to remove that particular oil without also removing some of your other oils....... which happened to me one too many times for me to ever want to do it again. lol

Yep, that is certainly the issue. My own way of dealing with it is to fast-pour the liquid oils reasonably close to the desired amount, then tiptoe the rest of the way using a disposable pipette. That makes it reasonably hard to frack up.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

I stand corrected on the free fatty acids. That's what I get for speaking from memory.

Nah, that's fine. I think now that I've typed it out I may actually have it all memorized. The thing I most wanted to point out is that there may be more confusion than people think:

It could be that people are getting a variable grade of pomace oil as you described. I guess that would be the crude stuff? Or they might just be getting different grades. If they get an edible grade I can't think of why it would misbehave or be variable or not work well in liquid soap.

The labeling is usually ambiguous. Most of it is incorrect from the start because olive-pomace oil should never be sold as olive oil, but they like to swap the words and call it olive oil pomace, which isn't a thing. Soaper's Choice happens to say "food grade" so that narrows it down. Bramble Berry also calls it olive oil pomace, but the reviews describe it as a variable product and most people get some degree of acceleration. I wonder if that could be unrefined pomace oil.

 

[jules92207]

I've used olive oil pomace (yes, I do believe that was how it was labeled, but it has been a while so I may be wrong) from Smart & Final and could work with it easily, but I did find it traced faster than my Kirkland pure olive oil. Since the pomace oil was sold in the cooking oils section I would certainly hope it's still an edible grade, but this discussion makes me question that now. I will say while I noticed a difference in trace I would not call it such a difference that I wouldn't use it if I could be more confident in its actual makeup.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

I've used olive oil pomace (yes, I do believe that was how it was labeled, but it has been a while so I may be wrong) from Smart & Final and could work with it easily, but I did find it traced faster than my Kirkland pure olive oil. Since the pomace oil was sold in the cooking oils section I would certainly hope it's still an edible grade, but this discussion makes me question that now. I will say while I noticed a difference in trace I would not call it such a difference that I wouldn't use it if I could be more confident in its actual makeup.

Thanks for the input. We would have to say there is some mystery surrounding pomace oil. If you found it in the cooking oils section, then it must be an edible grade, probably olive-pomace oil (blended refined olive-pomace oil and virgin olive oil). If you find it accelerates trace I would not question that for a moment, but I don't know what the reason is. Theoretically you could use any edible grade with confidence for any kind of soaping including liquid. But if there are questions about pomace oil, avoid hassles and use the pure olive oil or refined olive oil grades.

USDA standards are one thing and the actual market is another. The scandal around olive oil isn't just about adulteration with other oils. A lot of it is just that the properties of olive oil offered for sale don't measure up to the quality standard for the stated grade.

 

[dingi]

Thanks Seawolfe, DeeAnna, Susie, topofmurrayhill for a valuable discussion about Olive oil pomace and adulteration. Conclusion must be that instead of getting into trouble by using pomace olive oil, one may stick on to a brand with pure olive oil (Refined+Virgin) that give good results.