SMF April 2018 Challenge - Sous Vide (HP) Soap swirling!

[Primrose]

Sure SaltedFig, they were snap lock bags from Aldi, so clearly not heat proof. They were inside plastic jugs in a pot of water at 80 degrees C with a tea towel on top.

My.second attempt didn't go well either the oven bags were OK, but I cooked it exactly the same as above for about 30 minutes but my soap ended up awful colours, chunky and with some sort of liquid separated out. I'll try to post a pic

 

[SaltedFig]

That sounds like the plastic couldn't withstand the lye, at a guess, as the temperature isn't that different to what you would get if you microwaved something in the bag (I am guessing they wouldn't make the food bag unable to be put in the microwave?). Your experience has me completely flummoxed, I haven't been able to break the process yet (but there's obviously a way!) ... I will wait for the pictures.

I've got some oven bags ... I'll give one a try tomorrow (is there any additives that you think might make a difference?)

 

[Primrose]

I was just going to ask - maybe its my goat milk? It would at least explain the awful colours, but I can't understand why it went chunky and separated. The FO is a well behaving one. In fact the excess batter has made some lovely CP individual soaps. I'll pop the photos up tomorrow when I'm in the office, my mobile isn't cooperating

 

[Primrose]

Ok here's the photos from my two failed attempts. I took more photos of the first attempt but it was much the same the second time around minus the bags melting.

This was the first attempt after the bags melted but this is much the same consistency I got on the second attempt also with the oven bags, a chunky mess with liquid separated

The second attempt ... this was after I'd even mixed it up a bit trying to incorporate it together - may have come together with a stick blender but I didn't have time as it was hardening very fast. You can see the excess liquid

To be fair I've never done any sort of HP before so maybe I stuffed something up. This was my setup with pot of water, jugs and tea towels

 

[BattleGnome]

Do you know how hot your water got? Looks kinda like heat separation to me. Is your recipe/FO a heater?

 

[Primrose]

The water stayed at 80 degrees C. The surface stayed calm and there were bubbles at the bottom of the pot but not rising.

The first recipe was 25% lard, 25% tallow, 25% olive oil, 20% coconut and 5% castor oil.
Second recipe was the same but 50% lard, no tallow

I do use goats milk in place of water.

The FO was ACS ambered sandalwood which behaves nicely - no acceleration. I had some excess batter that I didn't cook and poured into the individual round moulds (thumbnail above) and they are lovely

I cant actually smell the FO in the cooked stuff ... though the CP ones are gorgeous

 

[SaltedFig]

Wow. So sorry the second batch failed Primrose

Primrose, your setup and bags look fine from the photo's, and the oils & fats in the recipe don't look like they could have triggered this.

So the only things that I think it could be is the batch overheated (as BattleGnome suggested). It could be the fragrance doesn't work in HP (this process is designed to have essential oils added after the cook, so maybe it could be added at the end as well?), or the goats milk (maybe it needs a lower temperature?).

If you were interested in finding the cause, it is possible, but it would require 3 small test bags:
1/ Water and fragrance (to check if the fragrance is a problem)
2/ Goats milk and no fragrance (to check if the milk is the cause)
3/ Water and no fragrance (to rule out every other part of your method and ingredients)
Test 1 and 3 could be made from the same batch (with only one having fragrance added)

I can try a milk test (I don't think anyone has used this method with milk before yourself?) if you like?
I don't have any goat's milk, so I could try and make it as close as I can with cow's milk by using some yogurt whey to imitate the extra whey proteins in goats milk and see if I can get mine to do the same thing.
Let me know the superfat and lye concentration, if you would like me to do this (I've got a couple of other tests to run, so it's no trouble )

*edited to put formatting back to how I typed it originally

 

[Primrose]

Superfat was standard at 5% and lye concentration at about 30%

I will have a go at the test but probably wont have time until the weekend, so if you'd like to try and test it as well please go ahead

Oh I forgot there was also TD and mica

 

[Serene]

Is there an entry thread? Did I miss it?

 

[SunRiseArts]

This is the entry thread Serene! Just add your name.

 

[Serene]

I meant for the final soap, etc I am already in...I think?? lol

 

[SaltedFig]

Oh my goodness! Sorry everyone, I went back and checked and I'm late with the challenge entry thread (I had the close date of April 25 in mind)

So, please enter a description and photo each of your soap and your process in this thread:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...vide-soap-swirl-challenge-entry-thread.69969/

There is still a few days left in the challenge, so there's still time to make the soap (the process takes under 1 hour!).

All comments on the photo's and the process can go in this thread. Thank you all for taking part!

Good luck

 

[DeeAnna]

Here are my two honorable mention soaps for this challenge. See posts 43 and 45 for details about how I made them.

Batch 1 -- It's okay, but not especially eye catching.

And Batch 3 -- The color combination just didn't wow me. But it's a nice try.

 

[earlene]

I finally did my challenge soap. For some reason, I thought I had more time and kept putting it off. In fact, since we are leaving for Chicago in the morning, I thought I'd wait until I got back. But when I saw the Entry thread, I realized there wouldn't be enough time if I didn't do it tonight (last night, now.) So I only did one attempt.

Things were going just fine until I accidentally added the FO before separating out for coloring, as I had planned to do before adding the FO. Instantly I had uncolored almost solid soap. So I broke it up, put equal amounts in the baggies, tossed in the colorants that I had pre-mixed with water to make up the difference from the lye solution, let air out of the baggies and popped them in the simmering water. My soap looked at lot like Primrose's pictured above, but not until I removed each baggie in turn & did my best to soften and smooth out the soap 'batter' & mix in the colors better. I also added a bit of yogurt & SL trying to make it more pourable. I did manage to get a picture or three of the process, but right at the end one of the baggies started to leak. So I quickly got them all out and did my planned on ITP swirl to pour into individual molds. All this while trying to get laundry done as well!

They are still pretty warm, but Kevlar gloves sure prevented hot-soap-touching pain as I tried to smooth the tops before covering with plastic wrap. I sure hope the colors brighten back up again. They started out really bright, but by the time they were ready to pour, they looked really rather muddy. These are definitely going to be some ugly soaps! If they aren't a total fail, I'll go ahead and enter them when I get back from Chicago on Wednesday night.

 

[DeeAnna]

Oh, Earlene and Primrose -- it sounds like you both had tough times with your batches. It's frustrating when that happens!

 

[penelopejane]

Here are my two honorable mention soaps for this challenge. See posts 43 and 45 for details about how I made them.

Batch 1 -- It's okay, but not especially eye catching.

Good job on all of your soap using this method. I really like the first subdued one too. They are much nicer than regular HP I think.

 

[amd]

Oh @DeeAnna ! I would have taken both of those soaps as good entries! I love the second one. LOVE.IT.

 

[DeeAnna]

In looking at the contest entries and the pics here, I am impressed how everyone's bars are looking so smooth and dense. Not quite CP smooth and dense, but real close. The bars are decently firm right out of the mold and they aren't getting that sway-backed look that some HP soap gets as it cures. I especially like that you can use higher lye concentrations (less water) just like you'd use for CP, and get really good results.

Thanks, SaltedFig, for encouraging us to try this -- it's been a treat!

 

[Pilar]

I love the idea. I have only used this method with soap clippings.
It is also interesting to use Sous Vide to make lard https://www.chefsteps.com/forum/posts/sousvide-lard-rendering

 

[NsMar42111]

Ok, did another round of this. I'm using the 1oz FOs I've built up because this is PERFECT for making multiple 1lb batches at the same time without a billion scoops.

Edit: Forgot to say, I'm using the crockpot for my hot water. I fill it halfway with tap water, room temp, turn it on high and let it heat up (with the lid on) while I'm measuring out the oils and melting the oils. By the time I'm done mixing everything, there is condensation on the lid -I haven't checked the temperature but I'm having no (almost) issues getting to saponification.

This time I added the FO to the bag with the emulsified batter. My recipe moves quicker than I realized because by the 7th baggie it was thick pudding again. I pushed out most of the air and sealed everything. Put all the baggies into hot water in the crockpot, covered them with a towel actually in the water figuring the wet towel would keep the heat at the top too. Then I covered with a lid and cooked for 35 minutes.Oh, I ended up opening a couple bags and letting them sink down lower to help push out the excess air, I misjudged how much I removed the first place. They were not vacuum seal perfect but the bag was flat above the batter.

I only had one bag failure, this time I used "freezer" bags not "storage" bags. FREEZER bags are the way to go! The failure may be due to splashing the FO on the side of the bag, I tried to pour right in the middle of the batter but that particular one I missed. The failure wasn't until I was pouring the bags into molds , was a melt through near the top-no soap lost. Once everything cooked, I poured the batter into the molds. The non contest ones I sprinkled mica on top and swirled with a skewer just the tops-if I was doing this for any kind of production I'd mix the mica with glycerin. The contest one I colored a seperate baggie of batter by adding mica and squishing the bag around-I recommend coloring before you cook for even results.

None of the bags had any kind of volcanoing or air building up in the bags-a definite plus compared to normal! Usually when I make this receipe I have at least one, if not two or three, major stir downs (although with plastic wrap as a top that's been just one stir down lately and its at the end). No signs of any volcanoing in the bags! If the crockpot liner bags would work for this, it would be perfect-that'll be a next experiement.

For making 1lb test batches, this is great! I can see the FO's that cause acceleration issues (a beachy one) as soon as I pour the FO into the baggie-the batter gets clumpy fast. I did not notice any loss of FO in the sealed bags and could only smell the one I spilled, so I feel confident adding FO to the batter before the cook. I also noticed that when I was taking part of the batter out, the batter started to stiffen (after the cook)-I put the baggie back into the hot water and it loosened right up! If you wanted to do a bunch of swirling, it would save have a ton of dirty cups to clean by putting each color into its own baggie.

Definietly wear gloves! My rubber palmed/fingered garden gloves are perfect!

I did have a slow bag, cucumber melon , that I had to cook a few minutes longer than the others. This fragrance always gives me issues (usually seperation) so I wasn't surprised. It did finally turn to vaseline.

14 scents tested in 2 batches with minimual mess....I'm happy! I'll do my contest entry after I cut tomorrow.