Pics. Instant Ashing

[Lakee]

All these soaps are the same batch, same fo. The lighter ones were poured in silicone molds.

Recipe was high CO/Cocoa Butter w/goatsmilk.

Any ideas why the silicone molds a shed & plastic didn't ? All were unmolding at the same time.

 

[lsg]

It looks like all the bars came from individual cavity molds, which don't promote gelling. Gelling is said to help prevent ash. Water discount is supposed to help prevent ash, also. Here is a link to more info.:

https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...nd-tricks/explaining-and-preventing-soda-ash/

 

[Susie]

Nothing helps prevent ash for me. Fortunately, a quick rinse of the bar removes it, as well as giving the soap that deeper color.

 

[penelopejane]

Spraying with isopropyl alcohol avoids ash in loaf molds.

Individual cavity molds are tougher. You might try this:
Try 33% lye concentration. If you pour the soap into individual molds and spray with isopropyl alcohol when the batter has set a little bit or cover with plastic wrap and then insulate they won’t get ash.

Also leave them in the molds for as long as you can - maybe a week. To avoid ash the thing seems to be to keep the air away from them and to get them to gel. But the air is more important than gelling it seems.

 

[SaltedFig]

Lakee, when you say instant ash ... did the soaps in the silicone mold look like they unmolded with the ash already on them?

 

[Lakee]

Isg-thanks for that link but this batch was poured into individual molds. Some plastic, ALL those ashed were in silicone molds. They came OUT of the molds ashed.

I'm baffled.

I remade this recipe this afternoon but sprayed the silicone molds with 91% alcohol just before pouring. Will see what happens unmolding in the morning

Lakee, when you say instant ash ... did the soaps in the silicone mold look like they unmolded with the ash already on them?

Yes

 

[SaltedFig]

It will be interesting to see if the soap is ashy or not (nice experiment idea!) ...
I'll wait and see (I do have a couple of idea's for you - your experiment will fine-tune the possibilities quite nicely)

 

[lsg]

Isg-thanks for that link but this batch was poured into individual molds. Some plastic, ALL those ashed were in silicone molds. They came OUT of the molds ashed.

I'm baffled.

Yes, that is probably the reason you got ash. Individual molds do not heat up enough to promote gelling, (which helps prevent ash).

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

I've been having this problem. After about four or five years of refrigerating my soaps and NEVER ONCE getting soda ash, I have suddenly started to get it. I am not using goats milk so much so I thought that might be a reason. I came on the forum begging for help a while ago. I too was getting white crumbly edges immediately on unmoulding on the bottom corners of the cavity moulds which penetrated into the soap, it wasn't just superficial. Not too much on top. Last time I made soap I followed advice and put the mould on a warm metal tray immediately after pouring, into a slightly warm oven , for several hours and leaving it for at least 48 hours before unmoulding. This seemed to improve the situation though I got more ash on top! I am just embarking on a new batch and this time will try putting cling film on top as well. I am approaching my soaping with some fear and trepidation as I find ash really annoying and depressing after so many years without it. It's not fair!!! The weird thing is that different varieties with the same fundamental recipe are differently affected. My Cinnamon, Honey and Oatmeal I still refrigerate - it comes out fine. My sea salt soaps are fine. The worst is Lemongrass and Poppy Seed followed by Mint and Tea Tree. Lavender, Sandalwood and Orange and Patchouli vary in how bad they are between batches, but aren't usually as bad. My plain soap seems to come out fine, but that alone of all the soap recipes is slightly prone to DOS! I'd love to know why they are all so different. It makes no sense, unless the actual essential oils have some effect on how the soaps are behaving, which is the main thing which differs between each soap variety.

Good luck with your quest. I think trying it in a warm oven might be worth a try.

Sorry, I should have been clearer - if you try the oven warming method, you need to switch the oven on for a while (while you make the soap) on its lowest setting, then switch it OFF when you put the soap in. You don't want it too hot in case it volcanoes. This is something else that so far, has never happen to me, so I don't want it too start.

 

[penelopejane]

I think these things help too and might not be consistent over your batches in individual molds:
Soap warm
Use 33% lye concentration and CPOP (at 110*F turned off but insulate the soap)
Cover with plastic wrap and/or spray sparingly with isopropyl alcohol.
Take it to a thicker trace - I find thin trace gets ash. Easy to test this and it is surprising!
Leave them in the molds as long as you can - a week.
Clean the molds well in hot soapy - detergent - water.
If you spray the mold with isopropyl alcohol before pouring do so sparingly and wait for it to dry before pouring to avoid bubbles.

But the crumbly edges and coarse, hard soap are something different. I don’t think that is ash because it can’t be washed off. It changes the soap itself.
I think that is overheating. Insulating too much or CPOPing too hot.

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

Well the crumbly edges on my soap weren't to do with overheating because up till this problem began to occur I have always soaped cool and put the mould in the fridge! I was very anti gelling. I consulted the forum before and most people seemed to agree the only thing it could be was a type of soda ash. I actually thought it might be cocoa butter bloom or something, but I only use 5% in the recipe. It is very weird. (And extremely annoying as it didn't happen the whole time I was developing the recipe - only after I had it fully certified for sale!)

 

[penelopejane]

So you had the white crumbly texture when you put them in the fridge too?
Does it wash off?

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

Yes, definitely in the fridge. It washes off to some extent when the soaps aren't so bad but on the worst ones it does actually penetrate the soap with the very edges being crumbly and a kind of bleached look on the bottom corners -yes the bit that doesn't actually get exposed to the oxygen. Thinking about it the bleached look seems to develop after unmoulding in the first couple of days, rather than absolutely immediately. It sometimes seems to look ok immediately. But all of the different soaps seem to behave slightly differently despite being largely the same recipe and made in the same way. But I don't want to hijack Lakee's thread. I'm doing further experiments next week, so perhaps I'll start a thread of my own-if I get any progress with the cling film attempt.

 

[SaltedFig]

Were your ashy soaps in silicone too @JuliaNegusuk?

(Could you try the same recipe in a non-silicone mould, to see if there's a difference in the ash?)

With @Lakee's test, I'm curious to see whether the 91% (isopropyl?) alcohol sprayed into the silicone makes any difference to the quantity of ash in the silicone molds.

Edited to add: I know that some reaction happens with soap batter and silicone, because I did some overheating in individual molds, to get the bubbles on the soap surfaces touching the silicone, that people talk about with silicone molds (I don't usually use silicone, so I had to test to find out how that works), and there was some gas all through the soap (that wasn't in the non-silicone mold soap tester).

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

Yes, they were in individual silicon cavity moulds. I could try making the odd one or two in plastic as an experiment but I need to make some for sale (hoping they turn out all right) so I need to use my silicon moulds. I also have moulds of different ages so I could try seeing if that makes a difference. I did see some speculation once that silicon just gets old and doesn't perform well.

 

[penelopejane]

Yes, definitely in the fridge. It washes off to some extent when the soaps aren't so bad but on the worst ones it does actually penetrate the soap with the very edges being crumbly and a kind of bleached look on the bottom corners -yes the bit that doesn't actually get exposed to the oxygen. Thinking about it the bleached look seems to develop after unmoulding in the first couple of days, rather than absolutely immediately. It sometimes seems to look ok immediately. But all of the different soaps seem to behave slightly differently despite being largely the same recipe and made in the same way. But I don't want to hijack Lakee's thread. I'm doing further experiments next week, so perhaps I'll start a thread of my own-if I get any progress with the cling film attempt.

It is weird because I got those hard white edges to my soap and I worked it out as being overheating. I was trying to work out a CPOP method that didn't use the oven.
When I put my soap in an esky (not individual molds) they got too hot as the heat didn't escape and formed that stuff.
I also got it later in individual molds that I had poured at too light a trace.

So now I insulate in a polystyrene box that lets heat out over time and I don't pour at really light trace. I poured soap in a 12 x individual cavity mold. When I poured two cavities I thought the batter was close to emulsion so I mixed the batter further and poured the rest.
The two bars poured at emulsion or very light trace got that hard, crumbly white stuff that penetrated the bar.
The rest of the bars were perfect. All were sprayed with IPA and all covered with plastic and insulated.

The silicone that is used to make the mold apparently makes a difference. You need to buy platinum silicone molds for them to last a long time without doing weird things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone_rubber

There has to be a solution to your problem.
You said above that you didn't have that problem with the soaps for 5 years when you refrigerated them but now you get it even if you refrigerate them?
Are you still using the same molds?

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

Yes, I had a blissfully happy time from the moment I started soapmaking till about two years ago when nothing ever went wrong. Now I almost never get a completely perfect batch. I am using the same moulds so one at least is about 5 or 6 years old. It probably isn't spectacularly good quality. Maybe I need to try buying a new, good quality one. The trouble is, now I will probably do the CPOPing and covering anyway because I don't want to risk the batch failing. Experimenting takes so long and failures mean wasted money and lots of awful soap which I then have to use my self. I'm getting quite a collection of that! There's only so often you can wash! But I will give a new mould some thought.

 

[penelopejane]

I went through the same thing when I couldn't fit my new molds in the oven.
It is so disheartening.
Very best of luck to you.
I hope you find the solution.
Nurture molds are great but they don't do individual cavity molds.

 

[JuliaNegusuk]

Thanks. I will look for some new moulds. It's probably worth it. I'll let you know if it works.

 

[Lakee]