Oil Additives in MP Soap

[SWashington]

Hi. I’m very new to this. I would like to use natural colorants in melt and pour soap but they are made by cold infusions in oil. But I have learned adding oil to MP bases would essentially ruin the base if it’s anything more than a tsp per lb. However I have learned that you can be a little more generous with fragrance oils adding almost a TBS per lb. Is there a reason why you can add more fragrance oils without ruining the base vs regular oils. Also is making cold infusions with fragrance oils a bad idea?

 

[lsg]

Don't go over 1 TBSP per lb of M&P base.

 

[SWashington]

Don't go over 1 TBSP per lb of M&P base.

Thank you. Is this for any oil or just fragrance oils? Because I’m reading a teaspoon of regular oil per pound. And a tablespoon of natural fragrance oils per pound.

 

[lsg]

Thank you. Is this for any oil or just fragrance oils? Because I’m reading a teaspoon of regular oil per pound. And a tablespoon of natural fragrance oils per pound.

This is for oils and butters, not FOs. For FOs, follow the suggested usage rate by suppliers.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

The composition of fragrance oils and essential oils are very different from the fatty acid profiles in oils used for making soap. Hopefully @DeeAnna or someone can jump in or post a link to explain the difference.

From Google AI:
In soap making, "fragrance oil" refers to the concentrated scent used to add aroma, while "carrier oils" are the base oils like olive oil or coconut oil that are used to create the soap itself, essentially acting as a vehicle to disperse the fragrance oil throughout the soap mixture; fragrance oils are composed of synthetic or natural aromatic compounds, while carrier oils are typically fatty acids derived from plants, each serving a distinct function in the soap-making process.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

@SWashington , I am guessing you're new to soap making. Here is an article that I found helpful when I first started soaping - click here for link .

Basically, there are pros and cons to each type of soap making. If you want to use infused natural colorants, it will be best to learn the Cold Process method of soap making.

 

[akseattle]

@SWashington
In a very recent post of mine where I forgot to add one of my oils to my CP soap, but where the soap seemed to come out okay, by that I mean it did not zap me when I gave it the zap test, I wondered if what saved me was that I had added more fragrance oil than 6%.

In response @Mobjack Bay provided the following really helpful information about the difference between fragrance oils and regular oils:

"The FO I used is really weak at 6%. It's MAX IFRA is 100%, so I used 9%. Maybe that extra oil in my FO gave me a little cushion? Fragrance oils do not saponify because they are not triglycerides, which means they don't affect the superfat (as we soap makers define superfat). The coconut cream in @KiwiMoose recipe affected the superfat because the cream contains triglyceride fats."

So, I think @Mobjack Bay would be a good resource on your question. Maybe she will see your post and respond.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Sorry, I don't know much about M&P soap making and don't feel I can't add anything useful to this discussion past what has been mentioned above.

 

[SWashington]

@ScentimentallyYours @akseattle @Nona'sFarm @Mobjack Bay Thank you everyone. The feedback has been very helpful. I have done some more research and studying on fixed oils vs volatile oils. It makes much more sense. I get that Essential oils/ Fragrance Oils evaporate at certain temperatures while fixed oils don’t. I also understand that volatile oils have already been infused which give them their scents. I guess I was trying to figure out if I added oil soluble botanicals like yellow dock, Himalayan rhubarb, indigo, annatto seed, etc to natural fragrance oils or essential oil would that change the color of the oil that could then be used in a MP base as a colorant+ fragrance vs adding a fixed oil like castor oil, jojoba oil which will more likely ruin the base.

As for CP soap making, unfortunately I can’t do it but I wish I could as it gives you more freedom to tailor the ingredients in soap. However I have Kidney Failure and Pots and bunch of other health conditions where I don’t think handling lye would be good for me.

I guess I’m just going to have to test it out and see what happens.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

@ScentimentallyYours @akseattle @Nona'sFarm @Mobjack Bay Thank you everyone. The feedback has been very helpful. I have done some more research and studying on fixed oils vs volatile oils. It makes much more sense. I get that Essential oils/ Fragrance Oils evaporate at certain temperatures while fixed oils don’t. I also understand that volatile oils have already been infused which give them their scents. I guess I was trying to figure out if I added oil soluble botanicals like yellow dock, Himalayan rhubarb, indigo, annatto seed, etc to natural fragrance oils or essential oil would that change the color of the oil that could then be used in a MP base as a colorant+ fragrance vs adding a fixed oil like castor oil, jojoba oil which will more likely ruin the base.

As for CP soap making, unfortunately I can’t do it but I wish I could as it gives you more freedom to tailor the ingredients in soap. However I have Kidney Failure and Pots and bunch of other health conditions where I don’t think handling lye would be good for me.

I guess I’m just going to have to test it out and see what happens.

Best wishes on your experiments. One thought - if you are interested in "natural" colorants, check out micas. Some are only altered to take out harmful components and do not contain artificial color. You have to read the various components of the micas and look them up to determine if any are synthetic. Of course you will want micas that are made to use in soap, as not all are.

 

[AliOop]

As for CP soap making, unfortunately I can’t do it but I wish I could as it gives you more freedom to tailor the ingredients in soap. However I have Kidney Failure and Pots and bunch of other health conditions where I don’t think handling lye would be good for me.

I'm so sorry to hear that. A family member has POTS and it's not fun.

We'd love to help you find some work-arounds for avoiding lye fumes and anything else preventing you from soaping. One is to buy the premixed lye solution if it is available in your area. My local box craft store carries it in the soapmaking aisle. Another thought is to ask a friend or family member to premix a "masterbatch" of lye solution for you. Once it has been mixed and cooled, there are no fumes at all. You can read more about masterbatching lye solution here on SMF, or watch some YT videos. Let us know if we can help!

 

[SWashington]

I'm so sorry to hear that. A family member has POTS and it's not fun.

We'd love to help you find some work-arounds for avoiding lye fumes and anything else preventing you from soaping. One is to buy the premixed lye solution if it is available in your area. My local box craft store carries it in the soapmaking aisle. Another thought is to ask a friend or family member to premix a "masterbatch" of lye solution for you. Once it has been mixed and cooled, there are no fumes at all. You can read more about masterbatching lye solution here on SMF, or watch some YT videos. Let us know if we can help!

Yeah POTS is definitely not a fun time! I’ve got a whole bunch of stuff that goes along with the POTS But honestly the POTS was the least of my worries I was more so concerned about my kidneys as I am already on dialysis. However I did realize I’ve been handling some form of lye for really most of my life unknowingly through chemical hair relaxers. I stopped using them when I was about 20. I’m now 29. And the safety precautions for putting the lye solution on your scalp was nowhere near the safety precautions for soaping

Wow! hmmmm I didn’t know you could buy the premixed lye solution. I’m definitely going to look into this. And I wish I knew someone who could premix it for me unfortunately I don’t . But I will definitely do some more research on this. Thank you this was really helpful for me!

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

@SWashington, I’m sorry to hear about your health issues. I wish I had an answer to your question about creating color infusions using fragrance oils, but I don’t work with infusions.

May I ask why you want to use infusions for colorants? If you were to make cold process soap, what oils would you choose? Are you expecting benefits from the soap, or hoping to avoid issues that cause skin sensitivity?

You already have some great suggestions. Maybe understanding your goals will help SMF folks to come up with more of them.

 

[SWashington]

@SWashington, I’m sorry to hear about your health issues. I wish I had an answer to your question about creating color infusions using fragrance oils, but I don’t work with infusions.

May I ask why you want to use infusions for colorants? If you were to make cold process soap, what oils would you choose? Are you expecting benefits from the soap, or hoping to avoid issues that cause skin sensitivity?

You already have some great suggestions. Maybe understanding your goals will help SMF folks to come up with more of them.

Thank you,
After doing some more research apparently it’s pretty common to steep botanical powders herbs etc in fragrance oils to change their color.

Hmm that’s a good question I guess I wanted to avoid using synthetic dyes as colorants in the soap. I figured it would be better for myself and others to have natural colorants. I guess you’re then wondering why would I choose a fragrance oil as a carrier for natural colorants I initially wanted to use a fixed oil like coconut oil, sweet almond, jojoba, or castor But since I can’t really add fixed oils to MP soap I thought I could essentially turn the fragrance oil into a 2 in 1 ( colorant and fragrance) without ruining the MP base. Considering my kidneys though the age old debate of “natural” vs synthetic is proving to be much more difficult than I thought. Essential oils although natural could be deadly if you’ve been transplanted but seems to be safe if your on dialysis. Fragrance oils could also be dangerous it you’re transplanted but safe if your on dialysis. Also many synthetic or natural colorants can also be dangerous to someone with kidney issues as we can’t eliminate things from our body efficiently.

I think if I were to create CP soaps I would focus on ingredients that particularly are not harmful to the kidneys first and then focus on which of those ingredients could actually provide benefits to skin of someone with kidney issues like myself.

If anything this forum has definitely showed me I need to take some more time to research.

 

[paradisi]

Two things to remember: first, and foremost, skin is not as permeable as you may have been led to believe. We don't in fact absorb much at all through the skin, and especially not via wash-off products like soap.

Second; the sometimes alarming info in MSDS or SDS sheets are NOT referring to soap or cosmetics containing those ingredients at standard %'s. They are referring to massive laboratory or highway spills, big vats of chemicals pouring over you undiluted.

I suggest you discuss with your medical professionals (nephrologist, MD, whoever is treating you) if it's safe for you to use scented products. My guess is that they will say yes (within reason) and alleviate some of your worries.

 

[SWashington]

Two things to remember: first, and foremost, skin is not as permeable as you may have been led to believe. We don't in fact absorb much at all through the skin, and especially not via wash-off products like soap.

Second; the sometimes alarming info in MSDS or SDS sheets are NOT referring to soap or cosmetics containing those ingredients at standard %'s. They are referring to massive laboratory or highway spills, big vats of chemicals pouring over you undiluted.

I suggest you discuss with your medical professionals (nephrologist, MD, whoever is treating you) if it's safe for you to use scented products. My guess is that they will say yes (within reason) and alleviate some of your worries.

Thank you I will keep this in mind.

As for the scent issue apparently as transplant teams explain it isn’t really about the skin being permeable but rather smelling certain scents especially essential oils are immune stimulating. And when you have received a transplant the medications you’re given that you have to take for the rest of your life are to keep your immune system as low as possbile/ non existent so that you don’t reject the transplanted organ/ kidney. The recommendation is non scented soaps/oils/ lotions. Some have recommended extremely diluted lavender essential oil and even that’s at your own risks.

As for now on dialysis FOs and EOs are okay with a few exceptions but considering being transplanted I have some things to reconsider

 

[paradisi]

Thank you I will keep this in mind.

As for the scent issue apparently as transplant teams explain it isn’t really about the skin being permeable but rather smelling certain scents especially essential oils are immune stimulating. And when you have received a transplant the medications you’re given that you have to take for the rest of your life are to keep your immune system as low as possbile/ non existent so that you don’t reject the transplanted organ/ kidney. The recommendation is non scented soaps/oils/ lotions. Some have recommended extremely diluted lavender essential oil and even that’s at your own risks.

As for now on dialysis FOs and EOs are okay with a few exceptions but considering being transplanted I have some things to reconsider

It's wise that you are being cautious!

I would check with a knowledgeable professional like Robert Tisserand on the properties of the oils that concern you.

You are exposed to volatile organic compounds from plants in the garden, while cooking, grocery shopping, etc. -- are those allowed for you?

If so, you might feel less anxiety about soaping. (You would be wise, as are we all, to wear gloves and use adequate ventilation.)