I'm late to the party (again), but yes, you can do that.
You may need to adjust the dilution water amount, though. IrishLass
My Creamy Cocoa/Shea GLS Tutorial
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I'm late to the party (again), but yes, you can do that.
You may need to adjust the dilution water amount, though. IrishLass
I would definitely get the PS80 whether you superfat or not, because EO's and FO's need a bit of solubizing to keep from separating out. The reason why you see varying amounts of PS80 to use is because there is no definitive "1-size amount" that fits all. With some EO's of FOs you may need more and with others you may need less. It's all by trial and error depending on which scent you use. I would start with about half the amount of PS80 to the EO, and then adjust from there.
IrishLass
I don't use PS80, and I don't have a problem with most of my EOs. The ones that don't mix in well, I just avoid using. I still use a 3% superfat. I do tend to use my citrus EOs, with the exception of grapefruit, as I have lots and they just don't last in bar soaps.
Saponomancer
Professional Geek
I would definitely get the PS80 whether you superfat or not, because EO's and FO's need a bit of solubizing to keep from separating out. The reason why you see varying amounts of PS80 to use is because there is no definitive "1-size amount" that fits all. With some EO's of FOs you may need more and with others you may need less. It's all by trial and error depending on which scent you use. I would start with about half the amount of PS80 to the EO, and then adjust from there.
IrishLass
Thank you!
I diluted a little of the batch and I definitely am actually going to add the superfat after all, so its a good thing I went ahead and ordered it for the EO XD
That was a-wonderful and a-marvelous.
IrishLass
IrishLass
My supplies came in so I just got done making the first step. I did the "mix equal parts of water with KOH and then add the glycerin" step because I didn't want to use the stove in the house and was iffy on microwaving glycerin and lye. So it was one part water with KOH, then two parts glycerin added after that cleared.
Used the whisk for a few minutes, arm got tired, switched to stickblender until it got too stiff. After sitting a few, it reliquified so back to the whisk. Within a minute of whisking...."what was THAT?" oh look tiny bubbles !! I didn't get the whole surface covered in foam though even though bubbles were flying...then the whole thing went to taffy!
So I wrapped up the crockpot (after turning it off and unplugging it) in a towel and will leave it overnight... I'm hoping that even though it went to taffy it will still be fine in the morning? Guess I'll find out!!
Used the whisk for a few minutes, arm got tired, switched to stickblender until it got too stiff. After sitting a few, it reliquified so back to the whisk. Within a minute of whisking...."what was THAT?" oh look tiny bubbles !! I didn't get the whole surface covered in foam though even though bubbles were flying...then the whole thing went to taffy!
So I wrapped up the crockpot (after turning it off and unplugging it) in a towel and will leave it overnight... I'm hoping that even though it went to taffy it will still be fine in the morning? Guess I'll find out!!
I bet you it will still be lovely taffy in the morning. Then you can test for zap and dilute if it's zapless. If it zaps, just let it sit a little longer. before diluting.
IrishLass
Then you can test for zap and dilute if it's zapless. If it zaps, just let it sit a little longer. before diluting.IrishLass
Actually, we have clearish taffy/hard vaseline now! Did a zap test...no zap!!! But OMG it tastes terrible. Blech. Soap. Ick.
Going to leave it overnight in the crockpot (off) and move onto dilution tomorrow. Will be testing "heat in microwave" version because again, don't want to use house stove...
Hoping this is much nicer on the hands than the first one I did. Might have to look for a cheaper glycerin source if so LOL
Thanks for all the info here!
Going to leave it overnight in the crockpot (off) and move onto dilution tomorrow. Will be testing "heat in microwave" version because again, don't want to use house stove...
Hoping this is much nicer on the hands than the first one I did. Might have to look for a cheaper glycerin source if so LOL
Thanks for all the info here!
Ok, one quickie. I'm leaving out the edta. To figure out the dilution amount of water to add, do I subtract out the solution?
ok, so,
-1.96% Tetrasodium EDTA in 39% solution
Hypothetically, lets say 100 ounces to dilute. So, that would be 1.96 of EDTA. BUT, .39x1.96 is the actual edta. Leaving, .61x1.96 to be the liquid component.
So, in the example, I would increase the distilled water amount by .61x1.96, or 1.20 (rounded)....right? Not the 1.96? Or is the .39 solution meaningless?
ok, so,
-1.96% Tetrasodium EDTA in 39% solution
Hypothetically, lets say 100 ounces to dilute. So, that would be 1.96 of EDTA. BUT, .39x1.96 is the actual edta. Leaving, .61x1.96 to be the liquid component.
So, in the example, I would increase the distilled water amount by .61x1.96, or 1.20 (rounded)....right? Not the 1.96? Or is the .39 solution meaningless?
If you want to put in a precisely the same amount of water while leaving out the EDTA, then yes you would add the water portion of the solution. Your number is right.
I'm not making a judgment about whether that is important, but that is how you would do it if you like. The EDTA water will end up being 1% of your water.
I don't imagine there is any harm in doing it, but you could also just add a little more water at the end if you need it.
Well, I messed up the dilution and learned a few things. #1 my scale isn't sensitive enough to dilute small amounts... so I need to figure out in ml for a few ingredients. #2 my stickblender doens't fit into a mason jar. #3 when using a microwave instead of a stovetop, do NOT MOVE away from the microwave. Yes, 10 seconds can cause a massive overflow. My microwave is very clean now!
I put too much ps80 in at dilution due to the scale, twice as much actually. Ended up shaking the heck out of the mixture instead of stickblending, but then that lead to a jar of foam. I let it sit for a few days, added more water (it took almost twice as much water as I had figured out! maybe due to the ps80?), finally today I managed to pour off what was underneath the foam head. Since I already had too much ps80 I didn't add any more, filled 2 travel (2oz) bottles and scented them. I have bubbles! And even without doing the superfatting with the meadowfoam, I didn't get the overly squeaky feeling I got with the first recipe. Hoping its not the overage of ps80 because I do like it...
Wondering about the foam. I added a few ml of water to it and will just leave it sit on my counter where I can keep an eye on it...will update! I think it's just foamed up soap because it lathers and such. I figure after a week, I'll try spritzing with 90% rubbing alcohol if it doesn't go down...
I still have 15ish oz of paste left...round two of dilution attempt will happen at the end of the week. This is fun!
I put too much ps80 in at dilution due to the scale, twice as much actually. Ended up shaking the heck out of the mixture instead of stickblending, but then that lead to a jar of foam. I let it sit for a few days, added more water (it took almost twice as much water as I had figured out! maybe due to the ps80?), finally today I managed to pour off what was underneath the foam head. Since I already had too much ps80 I didn't add any more, filled 2 travel (2oz) bottles and scented them. I have bubbles! And even without doing the superfatting with the meadowfoam, I didn't get the overly squeaky feeling I got with the first recipe. Hoping its not the overage of ps80 because I do like it...
Wondering about the foam. I added a few ml of water to it and will just leave it sit on my counter where I can keep an eye on it...will update! I think it's just foamed up soap because it lathers and such. I figure after a week, I'll try spritzing with 90% rubbing alcohol if it doesn't go down...
I still have 15ish oz of paste left...round two of dilution attempt will happen at the end of the week. This is fun!
In addition to its ability to solubilize/emulsify oils, PS80 is a very mild, low lathering surfactant. So if you add a fair % of it, it definitely could make your diluted soap feel milder.
Yes, it is!
I wouldn't worry about adding the extra bit of PS80. Better a little more than not enough.
IrishLass
Thank you again for this tutorial! My paste is currently resting. I did stick blend it for about 3-4 minutes, it reached really thick trace with bubbles on top. Looks good but it's still opaque.
I usually cook my LS, but I will trust you on this one, I'll let it rest.
It's very, very warm though, I can barely touch sides of the bowl.
I did shuffle numbers in recipe a bit, reduced CO to 25 and upped OO.
I will dilute it tomorrow. I have idea of heating up hot water and paste in the crock pot and adding melted stearic acid (will try to melt it in the microwave hehe).
I usually cook my LS, but I will trust you on this one, I'll let it rest.
It's very, very warm though, I can barely touch sides of the bowl.
I did shuffle numbers in recipe a bit, reduced CO to 25 and upped OO.
I will dilute it tomorrow. I have idea of heating up hot water and paste in the crock pot and adding melted stearic acid (will try to melt it in the microwave hehe).
OK.. I thought I'll report back.
Paste ended up being more yellow than amber but my recipe was tad lower in CO and higher in OO.
It looks nice, opaque, not as yours and not thick as yours.
There's little white specks floating around, similar colour to cottage cheese. But maybe a size of poppy seed.
I did everything like you did apart from the boiling the jars. I diluted in crock pot on high and everything looked emulsified.
It looks nice enough I'll end up using it but I'm just curious.
Paste ended up being more yellow than amber but my recipe was tad lower in CO and higher in OO.
It looks nice, opaque, not as yours and not thick as yours.
There's little white specks floating around, similar colour to cottage cheese.
But maybe a size of poppy seed.I did everything like you did apart from the boiling the jars. I diluted in crock pot on high and everything looked emulsified.
It looks nice enough I'll end up using it but I'm just curious.
Are the white spots hard or soft? If they are soft, I would try stirring or stick-blending the dilution to see if that helps (my belief, based on my own experiences is that it should).
But if they are hard (something I have not encountered before), it sounds like it's possible you may have some re-solidified stearic spots from the way you added the stearic (possibly things might not have been able to stay hot enough for long enough in your crockpot)?
Stearic acid has a very high melting point, which is one of the reasons why I like to dilute in canning jars- setting the jar in boiling water does a wonderful job of making sure the stearic is good and melted, and it helps to ensure the entire contents of the jar are brought to same hot temp before I stick-blend it to smoothness. If the spots are hard, you may have to re-heat the dilution to get them to a soft enough state to be able to take to being stick-blended into the mix.
The reason why I say I believe the spots should blend in if they are soft is based of how things progress when I dilute mine.... When I dilute mine, after the stearic is completely melted and the paste is soft enough, I stick-blend it to complete smoothness (which turns it white), then I re-cover the jar, place it back in the hot water (heat off) until things settle and the contents of the jar turn amber with a foamy head on top. Then I remove the jar from the water and let it sit overnight.
As it sits overnight and sometimes throughout most of the next day, the the amber soap develops tons of white spots- it looks like it has the measles, as you can see in these progress pics here: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=569810&postcount=6 and here http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=569813&postcount=7
But all I have to do is stir, and the spots blend right in and I am left with a beautifully opaque soap.
Please let me know how the spots feel (hard or soft), and also let me know what happens if you decide to stir or stick-blend or re-heat.
IrishLass
But if they are hard (something I have not encountered before), it sounds like it's possible you may have some re-solidified stearic spots from the way you added the stearic (possibly things might not have been able to stay hot enough for long enough in your crockpot)?
Stearic acid has a very high melting point, which is one of the reasons why I like to dilute in canning jars- setting the jar in boiling water does a wonderful job of making sure the stearic is good and melted, and it helps to ensure the entire contents of the jar are brought to same hot temp before I stick-blend it to smoothness. If the spots are hard, you may have to re-heat the dilution to get them to a soft enough state to be able to take to being stick-blended into the mix.
The reason why I say I believe the spots should blend in if they are soft is based of how things progress when I dilute mine.... When I dilute mine, after the stearic is completely melted and the paste is soft enough, I stick-blend it to complete smoothness (which turns it white), then I re-cover the jar, place it back in the hot water (heat off) until things settle and the contents of the jar turn amber with a foamy head on top. Then I remove the jar from the water and let it sit overnight.
As it sits overnight and sometimes throughout most of the next day, the the amber soap develops tons of white spots- it looks like it has the measles, as you can see in these progress pics here: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=569810&postcount=6 and here http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=569813&postcount=7
But all I have to do is stir, and the spots blend right in and I am left with a beautifully opaque soap.
Please let me know how the spots feel (hard or soft), and also let me know what happens if you decide to stir or stick-blend or re-heat.
IrishLass
First of all I really appreciate your help.
So yes I forgot to mention I did stick blend and reheat for about 2h. Should it be longer than 2h?
The spots did disappear but returned after the soap cooled again.
They are soft and mushy and melt between the fingers.
The funny thing is that one out of two jars have more and one with less is more opaque.
I do start think it's something to do with stearic.
It feels lovely on hands though.
I'll attach few pics I hope they work. Soap on left has more spots and it's less opaque.
So yes I forgot to mention I did stick blend and reheat for about 2h. Should it be longer than 2h?
The spots did disappear but returned after the soap cooled again.
They are soft and mushy and melt between the fingers.
The funny thing is that one out of two jars have more and one with less is more opaque.
I do start think it's something to do with stearic.
It feels lovely on hands though.
I'll attach few pics I hope they work. Soap on left has more spots and it's less opaque.
Are the white spots hard or soft? If they are soft, I would try stirring or stick-blending the dilution to see if that helps (my belief, based on my own experiences is that it should).
But if they are hard (something I have not encountered before), it sounds like it's possible you may have some re-solidified stearic spots from the way you added the stearic (possibly things might not have been able to stay hot enough for long enough in your crockpot)?
Stearic acid has a very high melting point, which is one of the reasons why I like to dilute in canning jars- setting the jar in boiling water does a wonderful job of making sure the stearic is good and melted, and it helps to ensure the entire contents of the jar are brought to same hot temp before I stick-blend it to smoothness. If the spots are hard, you may have to re-heat the dilution to get them to a soft enough state to be able to take to being stick-blended into the mix.
The reason why I say I believe the spots should blend in if they are soft is based of how things progress when I dilute mine.... When I dilute mine, after the stearic is completely melted and the paste is soft enough, I stick-blend it to complete smoothness (which turns it white), then I re-cover the jar, place it back in the hot water (heat off) until things settle and the contents of the jar turn amber with a foamy head on top. Then I remove the jar from the water and let it sit overnight.
As it sits overnight and sometimes throughout most of the next day, the the amber soap develops tons of white spots- it looks like it has the measles, as you can see in these progress pics here: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=569810&postcount=6 and here http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=569813&postcount=7
But all I have to do is stir, and the spots blend right in and I am left with a beautifully opaque soap.
Please let me know how the spots feel (hard or soft), and also let me know what happens if you decide to stir or stick-blend or re-heat.
IrishLass
Hi IL
You haven't replied in ages to this thread but I just want to update you on my LS.
Well I've kind of given up fixing it. I know it works for you and it's me and something I did.
Those little specks dissolved but white cloudy stuff is settling at the bottom.
Soap is too runny, well perfectly runny for foamy pumps, however I tried using it in two and they both stopped working.
It sort of worked in normal pumps but it's too runny. I tried thickening it with salt. It seems to work but buy the next morning I get two layers. Solid white soap on the bottom half and snotty top half.
I've added Bergamot EO to it and family complained it smells like black pepper. And indeed it does haha. So back to the drawing board and old glycerine method with three oils.
It's weird to wash hands with snot so I've given in and bought supermarket hand wash.
Like I said, nothing to do with your recipe it's probably me, made a mistake along the line.
It's actually funny.. I can't remember failing so badly in soapmaking in recent years.
