I seem to hit thick trace very quickly every time

[theplasticfantasty]

So I'm pretty new to CP soapmaking, a few batches in, and I noticed that every batch I've made so far seems to reach thick trace relatively quickly. Like, when I get to the point where I'm pouring in the mold my batter is pudding-like. I know false trace is a thing, but I don't believe that's what's happening. Maybe I'm over mixing? I tend to worry I'm not mixing enough and I want to make sure everything is saponified and all the oils are emulsified, but I don't usually mix (with a stick blender) for more than 20 seconds. I usually stop once there are no more oils sitting on top of the batter, but by the time that happens my batter is already thick. Is there something I'm doing wrong?

I always soap around room temp (anywhere from 70-80 degrees F) and I work in my basement, which is usually on the cooler side

 

[AlexanderMakesSoap]

It's just likely that your formula is resulting in a quick trace - what ingredients/proportions are you using?

 

[DeeAnna]

You have to give us more about your recipe if you want decent advice. All ingredients, all in weights please!

But if you're stick blending for a whole 20 seconds, you are stick blending for 10, maybe 15 seconds too long. Hand stir more, stick blend less. We've been having a similar discussion about this on another active thread. Check here -- Extremely thick trace in a basic, lard soap after 2 seconds.

 

[michael732]

So I'm pretty new to CP soapmaking, a few batches in, and I noticed that every batch I've made so far seems to reach thick trace relatively quickly. Like, when I get to the point where I'm pouring in the mold my batter is pudding-like. I know false trace is a thing, but I don't believe that's what's happening. Maybe I'm over mixing? I tend to worry I'm not mixing enough and I want to make sure everything is saponified and all the oils are emulsified, but I don't usually mix (with a stick blender) for more than 20 seconds. I usually stop once there are no more oils sitting on top of the batter, but by the time that happens my batter is already thick. Is there something I'm doing wrong?

The really cool thing about soap making is we have to deal with so many variables. Yes, stick blending will accelerate trace. Yes water content will. Yes fragrance oils will. Yes the ingredients will have an effect on trace as well. Good luck and keep having fun.

 

[bookreader451]

This video is very helpful

 

[theplasticfantasty]

It's just likely that your formula is resulting in a quick trace - what ingredients/proportions are you using?

You have to give us more about your recipe if you want decent advice. All ingredients, all in weights please!

But if you're stick blending for a whole 20 seconds, you are stick blending for 10, maybe 15 seconds too long. Hand stir more, stick blend less. We've been having a similar discussion about this on another active thread. Check here -- Extremely thick trace in a basic, lard soap after 2 seconds.

So the recipe I've been using is pretty simple: 18.75 oz olive oil, 5 oz coconut oil and 1.5 oz castor oil. Recently though I've been trying out: 12 oz olive oil, 12 oz coconut oil, 12 oz palm oil and 4 oz shea butter with a teaspoon or two of sodium lactate added; all batches with appropriate lye/water measurements as given with SoapCalc, no water discounting and 5% superfat

Thank you for the link DeeAnna! And I will definitely cut down on my blending time; I'm just worried about not incorporating everything fully

 

[Rsapienza]

I have read, quite often of people stickblending for 60 seconds or longer it always made me think I wasn't doing it long enough. I, too, was getting thick too fast. It took me a while but I have come to realize that all stickblenders are not created equal. I think mine is pretty powerful. I literally hit my batter for maybe 3 seconds and stir. In may give it 2-3 more pulses (pressing the button and immediately releasing) after that, stirring in between, and that's it. This gets me to emulsification where I no longer see a color difference or oils floating. I stir in colors and fragrance. If, at that point I need it thicker, I will pulse stickblend again. I no longer have this problem. Fragrances are the other culprit. Even ones that have reviews of no acceleration have accelerated on me

 

[AliOop]

So the recipe I've been using is pretty simple: 18.75 oz olive oil, 5 oz coconut oil and 1.5 oz castor oil.

Are you using pomace olive oil by any chance? It is very quick to trace, compared to regular olive oil which is slow-tracing, so that's why I'm asking.

I also agree with @Rsapienza that some stick-blenders are more powerful than others. Very short bursts with lots of hand-stirring in between will slow things down.

And that video by Lisa of I Dream in Soap is excellent for showing how to spot emulsion so you can stop there.

 

[GemstonePony]

The same FO can act differently for different recipes, so you won't know what an FO will do until you use it.
Also, be aware that the faster you bring your recipe to trace, the faster it will accelerate after. Think rolling a cart down a slope- it will speed up on its own, but the more you push it the faster it will speed up, and it will not slow down just because you stop pushing(or stick-blending, as the case may be).

 

[theplasticfantasty]

I have read, quite often of people stickblending for 60 seconds or longer it always made me think I wasn't doing it long enough. I, too, was getting thick too fast. It took me a while but I have come to realize that all stickblenders are not created equal. I think mine is pretty powerful. I literally hit my batter for maybe 3 seconds and stir. In may give it 2-3 more pulses (pressing the button and immediately releasing) after that, stirring in between, and that's it. This gets me to emulsification where I no longer see a color difference or oils floating. I stir in colors and fragrance. If, at that point I need it thicker, I will pulse stickblend again. I no longer have this problem. Fragrances are the other culprit. Even ones that have reviews of no acceleration have accelerated on me

It could very well be my stick blender! I use a Cuisinart with a 200 watt motor, I will try shorter blending times

Are you using pomace olive oil by any chance? It is very quick to trace, compared to regular olive oil which is slow-tracing, so that's why I'm asking.

I also agree with @Rsapienza that some stick-blenders are more powerful than others. Very short bursts with lots of hand-stirring in between will slow things down.

And that video by Lisa of I Dream in Soap is excellent for showing how to spot emulsion so you can stop there.

I go back and forth between regular and pomace olive oil, whichever I have at the time. I don't find a difference when I use either or, so I'm starting to think I'm just blending too much

The same FO can act differently for different recipes, so you won't know what an FO will do until you use it.
Also, be aware that the faster you bring your recipe to trace, the faster it will accelerate after. Think rolling a cart down a slope- it will speed up on its own, but the more you push it the faster it will speed up, and it will not slow down just because you stop pushing(or stick-blending, as the case may be).

I have used FOs, but my soap gets thick even when I don't use any fragrance. Might be a user error in this case!

I suppose I'm just nervous about not incorporating my lye in safely, so I tend to overblend because I don't want to underblend

 

[DeeAnna]

...all batches with appropriate lye/water measurements as given with SoapCalc, no water discounting and 5% superfat....

I suspect you may not realize that the terms "full water" and "water discounting" are really vague concepts. Perhaps your teacher or the book you learned from gave definitions for these phrases. What you may not know is the definitions you learned for these concepts are not universally understood and used by all soap makers everywhere.

The phrase "appropriate lye/water measurements" is also not helpful. There are many settings for water and lye that people can use, and for the most part all of these choices are appropriate. It's best to give the actual numbers YOU are using if you want to get good advice when troubleshooting a recipe problem.

I'd suggest people get away from talking about full water and water discount and instead use either lye concentration or water:lye ratio. Lye concentration and water:lye ratio are numbers with clear meanings. You don't need to worry about being misunderstood and your soap making will be more consistent if you use either of these numbers.

If you want to learn more, see my article -- Soapy Stuff: Water in soap
If you want just the essentials, see this one -- Soapy Stuff: Lye conc vs water:lye ratio

 

[theplasticfantasty]

I suspect you may not realize that the terms "full water" and "water discounting" are really vague concepts. Perhaps your teacher or the book you learned from gave definitions for these phrases. What you may not know is the definitions you learned for these concepts are not universally understood and used by all soap makers everywhere.

The phrase "appropriate lye/water measurements" is also not helpful. There are many settings for water and lye that people can use, and for the most part all of these choices are appropriate. It's best to give the actual numbers YOU are using if you want to get good advice when troubleshooting a recipe problem.

I'd suggest people get away from talking about full water and water discount and instead use either lye concentration or water:lye ratio. Lye concentration and water:lye ratio are numbers with clear meanings. You don't need to worry about being misunderstood and your soap making will be more consistent if you use either of these numbers.

If you want to learn more, see my article -- Soapy Stuff: Water in soap
If you want just the essentials, see this one -- Soapy Stuff: Lye conc vs water:lye ratio

Thank you for the advice! When I say "no water discount", I mean I use the full amount of water as suggested by SoapCalc; that is how I understand it but perhaps I'm not using my terms correctly, if so please let me know!

My precise water/lye measurements, I can update that in a little bit when I can pull up my recipes. I also usually do 50/50 ice/water so I don't have to wait as long for the solution to cool down

 

[DeeAnna]

It's best to just give the numbers to avoid any misunderstandings. Not everyone uses -- or even knows about -- Soapcalc and what's "normal" for Soapcalc may not be the default in the reader's calc.

 

[theplasticfantasty]

It's best to just give the numbers to avoid any misunderstandings. Not everyone uses -- or even knows about -- Soapcalc and what's "normal" for Soapcalc may not be the default in the reader's calc.

Of course! You're absolutely right. I shouldn't have posted on assumption. I can update in a few hours with precise numbers

 

[linne1gi]

So I'm pretty new to CP soapmaking, a few batches in, and I noticed that every batch I've made so far seems to reach thick trace relatively quickly. Like, when I get to the point where I'm pouring in the mold my batter is pudding-like. I know false trace is a thing, but I don't believe that's what's happening. Maybe I'm over mixing? I tend to worry I'm not mixing enough and I want to make sure everything is saponified and all the oils are emulsified, but I don't usually mix (with a stick blender) for more than 20 seconds. I usually stop once there are no more oils sitting on top of the batter, but by the time that happens my batter is already thick. Is there something I'm doing wrong?

I always soap around room temp (anywhere from 70-80 degrees F) and I work in my basement, which is usually on the cooler side

That's the most difficult thing to master - stick blending. You really have to do more hand stirring than stick blending. I may literally stick blend for 5 seconds total. Stick blend for a second or two, hand stir, stick blend for a second or two. That's pretty much it, if I just want emulsion.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Everyone blends too much when starting out. I think my third post on here was similar to yours. I blame You Tube where you see people making huge batches that they blend and blend for ages...

 

[amd]

Some recipes are just fast movers. My recipe is like that. I soap at room temp most of the time (depending on what my room temp is, if my oils are colder then I use fresh lye, if my oils are warmer then I use RT lye), and very literally start my stick blender, count to 20, and then turn it off. Any more than that and it becomes too thick to stick blend in colors or make any nice swirly patterns. It took me a year of tinkering to find the right amount of stickblending that left me with enough time to color and design, without leaving having things fall out of emulsion or a heavy trace. If you're sticking with one recipe, my advice is to play until it works. If the count of 20 is too much, then try the count of 19, still too much try the count of 18. I have friends who stick blend for 7 minutes... I ain't got time for that!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Some recipes are just fast movers. My recipe is like that. I soap at room temp most of the time (depending on what my room temp is, if my oils are colder then I use fresh lye, if my oils are warmer then I use RT lye), and very literally start my stick blender, count to 20, and then turn it off. Any more than that and it becomes too thick to stick blend in colors or make any nice swirly patterns. It took me a year of tinkering to find the right amount of stickblending that left me with enough time to color and design, without leaving having things fall out of emulsion or a heavy trace. If you're sticking with one recipe, my advice is to play until it works. If the count of 20 is too much, then try the count of 19, still too much try the count of 18. I have friends who stick blend for 7 minutes... I ain't got time for that!

Ain’t nobody got time for that!

 

[theplasticfantasty]

Thank you to all of you who are helping me troubleshoot this! For the first recipe I listed, my lye/water measurements are 3.47 oz lye and 9.6 oz water; for the second recipe it's 5.86 oz lye and 15.58 oz water. As I stated before I split my water 50/50 with ice, and I try to be very precise with my measurements as my scale doesn't round

 

[AliOop]

I watched a YT video by I Dream In Soap recently, where she remarked that it is better to stop stick-blending BEFORE you reach the stage that you want. Her hypothesis is that stick-blending creates an ongoing trace reaction that keeps going even after you stop blending. In contrast, if you hand-stir to the stage you want, when you stop stirring, the trace reaction slows way down, or even stops for a bit.

That made a lot of sense to me, so I tried it today during my fourth SMF August Challenge soap. I stopped just shy of stable emulsion and then hand-stirred from there to reach emulsion. The batter stopped moving and stayed just at emulsion while I split it and mixed in the colors. It was barely at trace when I poured.

I'm not sure I'll have the patience to do that in every case, but today, I was procrastinating and avoiding doing something else, so I was happy to give the soap my full attention and drag it out as long as possible.