fragrance problem

[Tinmanwoodworks]

I have six batches of HP soap that have been curing for four weeks now, and out of no where three of them suddenly started to smell terrible sort of an industrial cleaner smell. has anyone experienced something like this?
any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[BattleGnome]

Could you post a photo and your recipe with method?

Offhand I could say it’s rancidity or a fragrance issue. A pic and the recipe could help us rule those out

 

[shunt2011]

Were your oils fresh? Soaps stored properly, not on metal? It could just also be fragrance morphing. I unfortunately that happens sometimes with fragrances. I've had a handful over the years that smelled really good then changed to something really bad.

 

[Tinmanwoodworks]

my recipe is
steric acid
palmitic acid
palm kernel flakes
coconut oil
cocoa butter
mango butter
Shea butter
and castor oil
all my oils were fresh
I use HP with a KOH and NaOH split
and add glycerine, sodium lactate, vitamin e, and coconut milk
Once it's cooked it goes straight from the pot to plastic tubs where I let it cure. they had a four week cure and smelled fine for most of that time.
I really appreciate the help.
also (the soap itself is stark white, the picture makes it look like it has some Brown spots)

 

[Susie]

Are you using soap specific fragrance oils?

 

[Tinmanwoodworks]

Yes, from wholesale supplies plus mainly.

 

[Saranac]

How is the coconut milk included? Are you using it to dissolve your KOH and NaOH, or are you adding it after the cook? If after the cook, it's possible that it wasn't mixed in completely and has turned rancid.

Also, how much (what percentage of) coconut oil are you using? I can't stand the smell of coconut oil soap. Some people can pick up the smell, and others seem not to notice it. It's one of the reason why I don't make 100% coconut oil bars. 30% seems to be the max for me. Over that and it smells bad (IMO).

 

[shunt2011]

Next question, are you using deodorized/refined or unrefined butters (shea, cocoa, mango?) Those may be competing with your fragrance if using unrefined. WSP has pretty good fragrances for the most part. And when you add the milk could as well. If adding it after the cook it could be going bad.

 

[Tinmanwoodworks]

I do add the milk after the cook, and that seems like it could be the issue. I've added before the cook by freezing before, is there a better way to add coconut milk?

 

[dixiedragon]

If it's any industrial/cleaner smell, that's almost got to be the FOs. Can you tell us what FOs you used? Have you read the reviews of these FOs? Maybe another user mentioned something.

 

[IrishLass]

I highly suspect it has something to do with adding the milk after the cook, and it having some weird reactions with the FO. Whenever I add milks to any kind of HP (i.e., shave soap/croap, regular bath bars), I always make sure to add them to my oils up front so that the lye has a chance to chemically react with them to prevent the chance of spoilage. For what it's worth, I use coconut milk in my shaving soap, too, but have never had off-smells because I always add it to my oils up front.


IrishLass

 

[toxikon]

I highly suspect it has something to do with adding the milk after the cook, and it having some weird reactions with the FO. Whenever I add milks to any kind of HP (i.e., shave soap/croap, regular bath bars), I always make sure to add them to my oils before adding the lye so that the lye has a chance to chemically react with them to prevent the chance of spoilage. For what it's worth, I use coconut milk in my shaving soap, too, but have never had off-smells because I always add it to my oils up front.


IrishLass

Agreed, spoilt milk can sometimes have a weird chemical smell to me. Adding it to soap after saponification has completed seems like a likely cause.

 

[Tinmanwoodworks]

I am very appreciative of the help diagnosing an issue that would have probably taken me weeks to suss out on my own. So for a hot process soap, you would suggest mixing the coconut milk into the heated oils prior to adding the lye water? Is that correct?
Thank you.

 

[IrishLass]

Correct.

Edited to add: Don't be alarmed if you get an initial ammonia-type smell when pouring the lye into the oils/milk- the smell will go completely away once the soap sets up or wiithn the first few days of cure.


IrishLass