@Ekuzo You may want to check out Zany’s No Slime Castile for a castile and bastile soap recipe that firms up quickly and cures like regular CP soap.
Edited to fix broken link.
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Soaps causing skin problem on hands
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Edited to fix broken link.
The moderators prefer you use the term "kitten-loving" versus *&^#$$@%!!
Thanks, I found the thread and if I got that right - the main points are a little less water, 0% SF, some sea salt and some baking soda, correct?
We got the post now!
Okay, so from what I see, the one that got you irritated has coconut stated in the first place in the ingredients list - but the other one has it third. It has irone oxide though, and no info is provided on those "natural fragrances" mentioned, sometimes a scent (even essential oils) or an additive can cause a reaction. So you may get that flaky skin for a number of reasons and it's difficult to say exactly why.
You mentioned you are up to making some soap to see if it will be better for you that way, and that you wish to try with fewer ingredients and no coconut - just above we were talking about a castile recipe made by a forum member, and I found the original thread - so you can check it out. Castile soap is one made only with olive oil and is used for sensitive skin, and Zany says this particular one is suitable even for babies. I haven't tried it myself, but a lot of members of the forum seem to like and recommend - so why not give it a tryand let us know how it works out?
Here's the link to the recipe:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/zanys-no-slime-castile.72620/
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Sure, you could omit the castor oil and use just the lard, liquid oil, and coconut oil. Each one of those brings something to the soap in terms of hardness, longevity, bubbles, and gentleness. Rather than leave out the coconut oil altogether, try something like:
65% lard
18% coconut oil
17% liquid oil (olive, avocado, rice bran oil, or high oleic sunflower oil).
I usually tell people that lotion bars are like chapstick, except for your skin. I use lotion bars everywhere but especially on my hands. They are simple, quick, and inexpensive to make. 1/3 each of beeswax, hard butter, liquid oil. Easy peasy.
Yes, but pay close attention to the actual instructions. I went back and fixed the broken link. Glad you found the info anyway @Ekuzo.
@Ekuzo If you like high OO soaps, this recipe is a winner! My version is 80% OO and 20% CO, with 1% each sorbitol and sodium citrate.
Since OO is so slow to trace, and I want to use my room-temp MB lye solution (which is at 40%), I use even less water than the recipe suggests. I also use higher oil temps (~160ºF) to make up for not using fresh, hot lye.
I also don't make the sea water separately. Instead, I multiply my total recipe water number by 1.9% to determine the amount sea salt, and by 1.7% to determine the amount of bicarb. Those get dissolved in the additional batch water.
For someone making fresh lye solution, the same numbers work for adding the salt and bicarb to the entire amount of distilled water, before adding the NaOH to that. When using fresh, hot NaOH, the oils shouldn't be quite so hot as I mentioned above. But again, my lye solution is room temp, so I'm making up for that.
No worries, if I feel like trying it out I'll share the results
Thanks for the details you shared!@Ekuzo If you like high OO soaps, this recipe is a winner! My version is 80% OO and 20% CO, with 1% each sorbitol and sodium citrate.
Since OO is so slow to trace, and I want to use my room-temp MB lye solution (which is at 40%), I use even less water than the recipe suggests. I also use higher oil temps (~160ºF) to make up for not using fresh, hot lye.
I also don't make the sea water separately. Instead, I multiply my total recipe water number by 1.9% to determine the amount sea salt, and by 1.7% to determine the amount of bicarb. Those get dissolved in the additional batch water.
For someone making fresh lye solution, the same numbers work for adding the salt and bicarb to the entire amount of distilled water, before adding the NaOH to that. When using fresh, hot NaOH, the oils shouldn't be quite so hot as I mentioned above. But again, my lye solution is room temp, so I'm making up for that.
Tbh, I don't like high liquid oil content, the highest that's to my liking is 70% OO bastille soap. And I use pomace, which doesn't slow down that much and is the cheapest OO.
Why the sodium citrate, isn't citric acid easier to find and cheaper?
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I'm with you on that one! I definitely prefer soaps with high lard or tallow content instead, but I make this recipe for my friend who raves over it.
Interestingly enough, pomace OO isn't any cheaper here for me, and actually hard to find unless ordered in quantity from a soap supplier. The ones I have tried have accelerated like crazy!
Because I'm lazy, and I like making cheese sauce.
As you probably know, citric acid becomes sodium citrate after reacting with lye - but requires making a lye adjustment to account for what the citric acid consumes. I'd rather skip the math and use sodium citrate, which requires no lye adjustment. Sodium citrate can also be used in the kitchen to make a lovely cheese sauce with the perfect consistency. Also, I don't sell, and only use it at 1% in soap, so the cost difference between citric acid and sodium citrate doesn't affect me that much.Of course, I also have citric acid on hand for bath bombs, cleaning my stainless pots and pans, and making my non-dairy "cream cheese" frosting. So if I do run out of citrate, I can fall back on the CA as needed.
EDIT: I just saw @A-Polly's excellent response - yaaasss, anything to eliminate unnecessary math!!
Well, the calculator I use does the adjustment for me haha - and even before I started using it, I didn't find the adjustment too bothersome, but I get your point. All's good as long as it works well for you!I'm not @AliOop, but sodium citrate doesn't require the lye adjustment that citric acid does. Anything that means less math is worth a little money to me!
Hey, these days I'm going to find some lard or tallow and substitute the palm in my basic recipe to see if I notice any difference... soon enough I guess lolI'm with you on that one! I definitely prefer soaps with high lard or tallow content instead, but I make this recipe for my friend who raves over it.
Interestingly enough, pomace OO isn't any cheaper here for me, and actually hard to find unless ordered in quantity from a soap supplier. The ones I have tried have accelerated like crazy!
Because I'm lazy, and I like making cheese sauce.
Of course, I also have citric acid on hand for bath bombs, cleaning my stainless pots and pans, and making my non-dairy "cream cheese" frosting. So if I do run out of citrate, I can fall back on the CA as needed.
EDIT: I just saw @A-Polly's excellent response - yaaasss, anything to eliminate unnecessary math!!
For me, pomace works just fine, doesn't accelerate that much and it's workable - the other types of OO out here are really expensive and I've never bothered using them in soap.
As for the citrate - now that I know you use it in the kitchen as well, that makes a huge difference! Whatever works for you and simplifies your process is always welcome!
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That's my philosphy too!!I'm not @AliOop, but sodium citrate doesn't require the lye adjustment that citric acid does. Anything that means less math is worth a little money to me!
QuietWorker
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Their unscented baby bar soap was the one I'm having trouble with!!! But thank you for the suggestion of Dead Sea Minerals. I haven't heard of them and I'll have to look into it!
Harshest in what ways?
Thanks and yes, I will try to start experimenting! I picked up some silicone molds and I have a #5 cups I can use. Now I just need lye, oil, and a recipe! I think I might try Zany’s No Slime Castile that is mentioned below.
Can soap, like, expire? If you make a bar of cold processed soap, how long before it goes "bad"?
I haven't heard much about African black soaps. Do you recommend any brands?
I absolutely hate using hand lotion but I fear I might have to.
The thing that scares me about this is the 0% super fat. I feel like I'd mess it up! Would it be possible to do like 2.5% or something? Would that make it slimy? (also, what does slimy even mean in the context of soap?)
Nice! Yes, I think too much coconut oil may be the culprit. Regarding the castile recipe by Zany, see my above message.
Thank you for the recipe! How much water and lye would I use? Do I calculate it myself using a calculator? Or how does that work exactly?
Do you find it works better than conventional lotion?
And thanks to you all for all the help!!! I appreciate each and every one of your replies!
"Harshest in what ways?"
She probably means it's too cleansing and strips the natural oils off your skin, making it feel too dry. That's a problem with lye soaps, especially when you have sensitive skin.
"Can soap expire?"
Yes, it can. It depends on the oils used, their freshness, the percentage, the superfat, the water used, sometimes even additives play important roles. If you make balanced soap with lots of saturated fats, fresh oils, include some sort of an antioxidant or a chelator - it will take years before you notice any bad change, if any. Some soapers have kept soap bars for 7 years and more, reporting they look and work well. Actually, a soap bar is much better (long lasting, lather inducing, milder) after a year or two, as opposed to after only a month or two.
"The thing that scares me about this is the 0% super fat. I feel like I'd mess it up! Would it be possible to do like 2.5% or something? Would that make it slimy? (also, what does slimy even mean in the context of soap?)"
I know what you mean. If you don't feel comfortable jumping straight to 0% SF and you want to get a little more familiar with how lye works, you can try 3-5% SF. But that way this particular castile recipe will need to be cured for a lot longer to get the properties of a regular, non-castile soap bar - like, you would use it normally after 5-6 months instead of only 1, imho (someone correct me if I'm wrong, since I've made castile soap but I never tried Zany's recipe so far). In that case you may want to try a recipe that has more oils, like what the rest suggested (high in palm/lard/tallow). Combined with 5% SF it will give you a more balanced soaping and testing experience.
As for slime - soaps high in non-saturated fats (oleic, linoleic, linolenic) tend to give some snotty feeling when not cured enough or if the SF is too high. To better explain it - it "feels" like there's a little bit of liquid soap mixed within the hard soap bar, which can be best described as slime - which some people hate and others love. I hate it, or at least don't like it, ymmv.
"Thank you for the recipe! How much water and lye would I use? Do I calculate it myself using a calculator? Or how does that work exactly?"
http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp
That's the free online calculator a lot of soapers use. Make sure to never follow an online recipe when it comes to ingredients weight, always run it through this calculator (or a similar) to make sure you have the right quantities and it's safe to use.
Take your time checking the information available on the soapcalc website regarding using the calculator properly, because you will have questions for sure - don't worry, you can ask here if you don't understand something, or you can also search some older threads with relevant information. Better safe than sorry, after all.
I would suggest you change the lye calculation from "as % of oils" to "lye concentration" and set it to 33% for your first batch. Once you get more comfortable, you can experiment with higher concentrations.
Hope that helps!
She probably means it's too cleansing and strips the natural oils off your skin, making it feel too dry. That's a problem with lye soaps, especially when you have sensitive skin.
"Can soap expire?"
Yes, it can. It depends on the oils used, their freshness, the percentage, the superfat, the water used, sometimes even additives play important roles. If you make balanced soap with lots of saturated fats, fresh oils, include some sort of an antioxidant or a chelator - it will take years before you notice any bad change, if any. Some soapers have kept soap bars for 7 years and more, reporting they look and work well. Actually, a soap bar is much better (long lasting, lather inducing, milder) after a year or two, as opposed to after only a month or two.
"The thing that scares me about this is the 0% super fat. I feel like I'd mess it up! Would it be possible to do like 2.5% or something? Would that make it slimy? (also, what does slimy even mean in the context of soap?)"
I know what you mean. If you don't feel comfortable jumping straight to 0% SF and you want to get a little more familiar with how lye works, you can try 3-5% SF. But that way this particular castile recipe will need to be cured for a lot longer to get the properties of a regular, non-castile soap bar - like, you would use it normally after 5-6 months instead of only 1, imho (someone correct me if I'm wrong, since I've made castile soap but I never tried Zany's recipe so far). In that case you may want to try a recipe that has more oils, like what the rest suggested (high in palm/lard/tallow). Combined with 5% SF it will give you a more balanced soaping and testing experience.
As for slime - soaps high in non-saturated fats (oleic, linoleic, linolenic) tend to give some snotty feeling when not cured enough or if the SF is too high. To better explain it - it "feels" like there's a little bit of liquid soap mixed within the hard soap bar, which can be best described as slime - which some people hate and others love. I hate it, or at least don't like it, ymmv.
"Thank you for the recipe! How much water and lye would I use? Do I calculate it myself using a calculator? Or how does that work exactly?"
http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp
That's the free online calculator a lot of soapers use. Make sure to never follow an online recipe when it comes to ingredients weight, always run it through this calculator (or a similar) to make sure you have the right quantities and it's safe to use.
Take your time checking the information available on the soapcalc website regarding using the calculator properly, because you will have questions for sure - don't worry, you can ask here if you don't understand something, or you can also search some older threads with relevant information. Better safe than sorry, after all.
I would suggest you change the lye calculation from "as % of oils" to "lye concentration" and set it to 33% for your first batch. Once you get more comfortable, you can experiment with higher concentrations.
Hope that helps!
Use a soap calculator to enter the recipe. The lye calculation will default to 38% water-as-percent-of oils, which you will want to change. Choose "Lye Concentration" instead, and set it to 33% as a good starting point.
Don't be too worried about that. Your lye is almost certainly not as pure as the soap calculator will assume. Plus, even if your soap is a little lye-heavy to start (again, quite unlikely), it will cure out in a week or two to be perfectly safe.
But if you feel you must, set the superfat on this recipe to 1% max. Otherwise, you will get a lot more of the slimey, snotty lather for which high olive oil soaps are (in)famous.
Yes, especially on my hands. I live through cold, dry, Midwest winters and resigned myself to the fact that my fingertips will bleed every winter. I would apply SuperGlu proactively and reactively. My fingers no longer bleed. Sorry to be graphic.
I don't know what to credit my soap and what to credit my lotion bars. For decades I had rashy skin (not disabling, just irritating) and tried every single over-the-counter and prescribed lotion and cream. I would have to apply several times a DAY and had products stashed in my car, workplace, bedroom, tv room. Now I apply several times a YEAR. My skin has made a dramatic improvement. Keep us posted, okay?
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@QuietWorker @Ekuzo
Exactly Ekuzo - The Bronner's soaps (haven't used the baby one) were very stripping and drying to the point my skin was "crunchy". I used to make a 100% coconut oil laundry bar with 1% sf that wasn't as harsh. Ivory is another one I simply can't use, although I love it's scent!
Exactly Ekuzo - The Bronner's soaps (haven't used the baby one) were very stripping and drying to the point my skin was "crunchy". I used to make a 100% coconut oil laundry bar with 1% sf that wasn't as harsh. Ivory is another one I simply can't use, although I love it's scent!
QuietWorker
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@Ekuzo thank you so much for your reply! It cleared a lot of stuff up for me.
@AliOop the sodium hydroxide I plan to use is food grade, so it should be very pure.
@Zing thank you for sharing your experience with that. That sounds tough. I will definitely let you know how it develops!
And sorry to not use quotes, but I think using too many quotes is what was making my comments be stuck in the moderation queue.
Also, I found this youtuber called The Soap Artist and I found a series of videos she did that you can find here:
They were an amazing watch! I feel like I learned so much and she explained all of the lye stuff really well. So now I have a better grasp on things and I may even try to make my own recipe. Maybe like 85% olive and 15% coconut. I don't have many different types of oils available near me (no palm, for example) and I do not currently want to make an online order from somewhere due to shipping costs.
I'm sure I'll figure something out. I might try one of the aforementioned recipes you kind folks provided in this very thread.
@AliOop the sodium hydroxide I plan to use is food grade, so it should be very pure.
@Zing thank you for sharing your experience with that. That sounds tough. I will definitely let you know how it develops!
And sorry to not use quotes, but I think using too many quotes is what was making my comments be stuck in the moderation queue.
Also, I found this youtuber called The Soap Artist and I found a series of videos she did that you can find here:
They were an amazing watch! I feel like I learned so much and she explained all of the lye stuff really well. So now I have a better grasp on things and I may even try to make my own recipe. Maybe like 85% olive and 15% coconut. I don't have many different types of oils available near me (no palm, for example) and I do not currently want to make an online order from somewhere due to shipping costs.
I'm sure I'll figure something out. I might try one of the aforementioned recipes you kind folks provided in this very thread.
I can only imagine how harsh it is, if a CO with 1% SF feels milder on your skin! So there might be another factor that's more important, not the CO percentage, in this case.
Tbh, I only tried hand crafted soap once - it was a gift. It didn't even leave any special impression for me, it was just okay. Several months later I started making my own soap and haven't used anything else since
@QuietWorker happy to help! Keep in mind, the purity on the label of your caustic soda is never the actual one, it's always a little less - and even less a few days after you open it for the first time. Don't let that bother you - always get fresh sodium hydroxide and store it well sealed between uses, and never make adjustments in the calculator regarding the supposed "drop in purity". Just use the numbers on the label as they are - you will end up with a little bit more SF but it's no biggie.
You can try 70% OO and 30% CO with 3% SF - that will make a great bastille soap. The high CO % shouldn't bother you with that much olive in it
I'm another superfan of Zany's No-Slime Castile and recommend it highly. My favorite is the bastile variation, which calls for the same 85% olive oil you are thinking of, and you could use 15% coconut if you don't have the castor oil (although it's truly worthwhile to include if you can get it). Here's a YouTube video of someone trying out the 100% olive oil recipe; note that the maker soaped cooler than Zany specifies, and I've not experienced the difficulty getting to trace that she did:
Making Zany's No-Slime Castile
One last note: at first I was nervous about the 0% superfat as well, but the calculator allows you to enter 0.25% or 0.5% SF, which isn't enough to disrupt the "no slime" formula but does provide a little peace of mind if needed!
Best of luck with whatever you decide to make!
