Experience of anorexic dog? Anyone?

[shunt2011]

Thank you for all the lovely words

He's been for bloods today and his BUN has come down from 50 to 45 but that's still way higher than its ever been. His creatinine is off the chart at over 600 (the lowest it's been is 124 and the previous highest 223). I asked the vet what he would do if Buster was his dog and he was totally honest and said he would consider euthanasia but that he wasn't saying that should be today but probably within a few weeks.

He's outside playing at the moment and has just eaten, is also drinking ok again at the moment.

I'm so conflicted because part of me feels whilst he's eating (albeit only small amounts - he hasn't lost anymore weight since Tuesday), drinking, playing and willing to go for walks that it's not the right time but the other side of me knows that when he's no longer doing these things it's because he's really suffering and I don't want that.

The vet is going to do a day of fluid therapy as an outpatient tomorrow then take bloods to see how effective it is. I guess I will see what tomorrow brings but I know I can't keep taking him in for that - once a month maybe but if it were more is that just too much to keep putting him through?

I'm so very sorry you are going through this. I know how difficult it is to make the decision to end their lives. What a precious pup you've got there.

I've had to make that decision more times than I've liked. However, as others have stated, you know in your heart of hearts when the right time is. They have a way of telling you when it's just too much.

Follow your heart and gut. Will keep you all in my prayers.

 

[lenarenee]

That's correct - fluid therapy isn't a cure. It hydrates because of the inability to concentrate urine and helps lower the toxin levels to help the animal feel better.

I wonder what your vet meant by prolong? Prolong the inevitable end? But isn't that the whole idea? Keep the pet comfortable enough to still enjoy life despite the kidney disease. Yes, the disease progresses - some faster than others. Maybe you'll get a few more good months, a year, or more. No way to tell without trying. You did say they declared Buster to be about stage 2 - 3, correct?

I just spoke with one of my former vets, and yes, they do use home fluid therapy for dogs.

Again...home fluid therapy in the UK is fairly new. Maybe your vet's personal preference is based on that? The first time they tried to teach me to administer fluids I cried - I thought it was barbaric and couldn't imagine living like that. Then I saw how much better my cat looked and acted. And that, once I was comfortable with the process....she would purr or sleep through it.

It might be worth it for you for try it for a few weeks and see how it all pans out.

 

[Sonya-m]

Yeah they did but that was when his BUN was holding steady at around 16, in the space of a week since the last fluid therapy it's gone up to 50.

It was a different vet today and he's happy for me to take him in for fluids so I will have to see how effective that is.

 

[Sonya-m]

But I will also ask the question about home administration of fluids. How often did you administer them to your cat?

 

[reflection]

sonya, i'm so sorry to hear your buster is so sick. it's hard to even read this thread. as long as he's not in pain i wouldn't rush to make a decision if you just aren't sure yet. i can't remember if you've mentioned if you have gotten a second opinion. i'd definitely do that before making a final decision. maybe there is a specialist you can talk to. here's hoping anyway.

 

[DeeAnna]

I've done subcutaneous fluids for sick dogs and cats. It's a little scary at first -- sharp needles and all that -- but it's not hard after a bit of practice. And they feel better afterwards, which makes me feel better about it too. If you can do this the first time at the vet clinic with the vet or a tech supervising, that might be a great idea if you've never done things like this before.

 

[lenarenee]

Yeah they did but that was when his BUN was holding steady at around 16, in the space of a week since the last fluid therapy it's gone up to 50.

It was a different vet today and he's happy for me to take him in for fluids so I will have to see how effective that is.

While I would expect his BUN level to go up considerably in a week's time without fluids, I can't speak to how "bad" or not bad it is to swing to 50 from 16 during that time frame.

Fluids do not "fix" the cause of BUN levels, but consistent use helps flush them out of the blood. Every protein meal increases BUN levels.

I can tell you, (also answering your next question...) my cat started with fluids twice a week, went up to every other day within a year's time. I've known people who gave daily, and even twice daily fluids to their cat.

It got to the point where I could tell when my cat needed them, or when I could delay them 12 - 24 hours without consequence to her. There were still bad days, more struggles with appetite, but definitely more good than bad and it was worth it for us.

 

[lenarenee]

I've done subcutaneous fluids for sick dogs and cats. It's a little scary at first -- sharp needles and all that -- but it's not hard after a bit of practice. And they feel better afterwards, which makes me feel better about it too. If you can do this the first time at the vet clinic with the vet or a tech supervising, that might be a great idea if you've never done things like this before.

There's a ton of videos on YouTube done by vet techs too. And the "scruff" area they show you (same area for cats and dogs) has fewer nerves in the skin so really doesn't cause much discomfort at all.

The skin of cats and dogs is not attached to the flesh like humans, so the needle pierces less of the body, than it would for humans.

 

[Sonya-m]

sonya, i'm so sorry to hear your buster is so sick. it's hard to even read this thread. as long as he's not in pain i wouldn't rush to make a decision if you just aren't sure yet. i can't remember if you've mentioned if you have gotten a second opinion. i'd definitely do that before making a final decision. maybe there is a specialist you can talk to. here's hoping anyway.

He's seen 3 different vets now, 2 at our local practice and the one that looked after him at the hospital. Of those 3, 2 have seen him this week and are in agreement that he's crashed pretty quickly since leaving the hospital and that they would be considering euthanasia in the next few weeks.

I'm not ready to lose him yet so we will take him today for these fluids and ask the question of fluids at home also.

I just need to make sure I'm not holding onto him for our own selfish needs - I don't want him to suffer.

 

[Susie]

He's seen 3 different vets now, 2 at our local practice and the one that looked after him at the hospital. Of those 3, 2 have seen him this week and are in agreement that he's crashed pretty quickly since leaving the hospital and that they would be considering euthanasia in the next few weeks.

I'm not ready to lose him yet so we will take him today for these fluids and ask the question of fluids at home also.

I just need to make sure I'm not holding onto him for our own selfish needs - I don't want him to suffer.

That is the real question here, not whether fluids can be done at home or not.

I am most worried about the pancreatitis pain. It is one of the worst pains in humans.

 

[Sonya-m]

I agree Susie and I intend to ask the vet today having had him in for the day if he believes he is in pain or not.

 

[Dahila]

The problem with dogs is; they show the pain only when there is not way to hide it. I would observe him closely. Sonya you will know when he is in pain, in a lot of pain.......

 

[TeresaT]

He's seen 3 different vets now, 2 at our local practice and the one that looked after him at the hospital. Of those 3, 2 have seen him this week and are in agreement that he's crashed pretty quickly since leaving the hospital and that they would be considering euthanasia in the next few weeks.

I'm not ready to lose him yet so we will take him today for these fluids and ask the question of fluids at home also.

I just need to make sure I'm not holding onto him for our own selfish needs - I don't want him to suffer.

And that right there is the deciding factor. Every case, every animal, every situation is different. Only you can decide when "enough is enough." Shredder had Cushings disease. Her medicine was not working. She was not "suffering." She wasn't in any pain, she wasn't miserable or at death's door. She was still quite chipper most of the time. However, she was "off." Extremely "off." She drank excessively and then couldn't make it outside to relieve herself. Her belly was bloated so badly I though she would either float or burst. She panted. Constantly. Even sitting in front of a fan blowing full on her. She had difficulty getting up onto things. Some days she would eat everything in sight and other days she didn't want anything at all. She was a barker. She barked long and loud at everything. When she stopped doing that, I knew it was time. For her not to want to bark for an hour at the squirrels in the yard was definitely a signal she was not herself. And no matter how much I "forgave" her for peeing on the carpets, there was just no way to get around the fact that she wasn't barking like a psycho-mutt or attacking Max for daring to try to sit with me.

I probably could have tried stronger doses of medicine or waited longer to see if she would have improved, but her quality of life was going downhill. I wanted her to go to sleep before she was too miserable to enjoy life. I had waited far too long with my beloved cat Coney; she suffered far too long with old age and the infirmity that comes with it. And I waited too long with my diabetic dog Daisy. She suffered such horrendous extremes in sugar levels that if she had been human it would have killed her.

I swore I would never let another one of my animals continue on just to keep me happy. The greatest gift we can give to the animals we love is the gift and respect of a easy passing. I held Shredder in my arms as she was given the medicines. And I held her after the doctor pronounced her deceased. They gave me all of the time I wanted/needed with her. She is the only pet that I don't have any guilty feelings over. I know I did the absolute best I possibly could have done for her. She had 9.5 great years.

Good luck with your decision. It is the hardest decision to make. But when you make it, you are making it for all of the right reasons. There is nothing selfish or cruel about ending your best buddy's suffering. On the contrary, prolonging it just to have him around is the selfish and cruel thing to do. And I've definitely been guilty of that in my past.

 

[lenarenee]

I wasn't going to bring these up until later, but at this point I think its only fair to give you this info and you can do with it what you want.

Has anyone mentioned supplementing with fresh Omega 3's? (many are already rancid by the time you buy then in the store) Some cases have had good luck with them in reducing inflammation/workload of the kidneys, some regained some function. (Used them for my cat...who's disease did slow its progression BUT that isn't necessarily proof)

Also, they were investigating the use of ketoacids as substitutes for protein. Used in rats, the last time I knew, starting use in cats (I didn't), and I don't know about dogs.

 

[Sonya-m]

He had fluid therapy yesterday and it brought his BUN down to 33. Still high but not as bad as the 50 it was on Tuesday.

As he was with the vet all day I asked if he believed him to be in pain or suffering and he doesn't believe he is.

He wants to see him again in a couple of weeks for a blood test to see how quickly the BUN is building up.

The challenge I'm facing is his unwillingness to eat regularly - it's very sporadic. He tends not to want to eat on the morning but comes round by mid afternoon. I wish he would eat a bit more - I've tried every food out there!

I asked about sub q fluids and my vet said he would be willing to show me how but said for Buster's size and blood levels he would need a lot of fluid using multiple sites and that in his opinion it would cause him discomfort. I've decided I'm not going down that route as I'm not willing to cause him discomfort at home.

I will look into the omega 3 oils though.

When Buster was admitted to hospital and it became apparent that he was going to be sick for the long term I made the decision to move my flight for my holiday from last Sunday to this coming Sunday in case he was well enough to be left with the dog sitter. My husband wants me to go out and join him on Sunday and to leave Buster with his dad. It feels like a no win situation cos if I go I'm gonna panic about buster everyday and not enjoy it at all as well as making the other people we're away with miserable too. If I stay to look after Buster I'm going to make myself sick with worry as I'm not eating or sleeping well. The vet told me to go, said he would be caught right off guard if buster deteriorated hugely in the next week but that he obviously can't make any promises. I think if he was eating more I may have been OK with going.

This whole thing is making me ill, I'm staying up really late so that I'm tired enough to sleep, usually around 1am but then I'm waking up at 6am everyday with this horrid heavy feeling on my chest. And I'm doing on my own at the moment because my husband is away and most of the friends I would visit are on the same holiday.

 

[lenarenee]

Does your vet, or another vet, board animals? They could keep a close eye on him, and be right there if he needed something.

Can they recommend a pet sitter that is a vet technician - would that help you feel better if you went on the trip?

Sonya, I wonder about the vet's statement about discomfort from sub Q fluids. My vets, and the cat owners that helped me, always said there is either no discomfort - to very little discomfort. I've seen cats sleep through the process. Maybe think about trying for a week and see what you think Buster's experience is.

Most importantly Sonya, you sound very alone - is there anyone you've been talking to besides vets? Someone who can just listen?

He had fluid therapy yesterday and it brought his BUN down to 33. Still high but not as bad as the 50 it was on Tuesday.

As he was with the vet all day I asked if he believed him to be in pain or suffering and he doesn't believe he is.

He wants to see him again in a couple of weeks for a blood test to see how quickly the BUN is building up.

The challenge I'm facing is his unwillingness to eat regularly - it's very sporadic. He tends not to want to eat on the morning but comes round by mid afternoon. I wish he would eat a bit more - I've tried every food out there!

I asked about sub q fluids and my vet said he would be willing to show me how but said for Buster's size and blood levels he would need a lot of fluid using multiple sites and that in his opinion it would cause him discomfort. I've decided I'm not going down that route as I'm not willing to cause him discomfort at home.

I will look into the omega 3 oils though.

When Buster was admitted to hospital and it became apparent that he was going to be sick for the long term I made the decision to move my flight for my holiday from last Sunday to this coming Sunday in case he was well enough to be left with the dog sitter. My husband wants me to go out and join him on Sunday and to leave Buster with his dad. It feels like a no win situation cos if I go I'm gonna panic about buster everyday and not enjoy it at all as well as making the other people we're away with miserable too. If I stay to look after Buster I'm going to make myself sick with worry as I'm not eating or sleeping well. The vet told me to go, said he would be caught right off guard if buster deteriorated hugely in the next week but that he obviously can't make any promises. I think if he was eating more I may have been OK with going.

This whole thing is making me ill, I'm staying up really late so that I'm tired enough to sleep, usually around 1am but then I'm waking up at 6am everyday with this horrid heavy feeling on my chest. And I'm doing on my own at the moment because my husband is away and most of the friends I would visit are on the same holiday.

 

[Sonya-m]

I think I'm going to leave him with my in laws. Neither option fills me with any happiness but I'm making myself sick with worry.

I don't think he's going to see September if I'm honest - he's hardly eating anything at all. He's going to starve to death - it has to be the urea building up in his system making him feel sick. In which case I probably should have already done the right thing by him.

 

[lenarenee]

I think I'm going to leave him with my in laws. Neither option fills me with any happiness but I'm making myself sick with worry.

I don't think he's going to see September if I'm honest - he's hardly eating anything at all. He's going to starve to death - it has to be the urea building up in his system making him feel sick. In which case I probably should have already done the right thing by him.

Sonya, you're under a lot of pressure. Would you like to be with him at the end? Maybe consider ending it now, while he's not feeling horrible. You'll be grieving on your trip - but not worried sick about his condition or feeling guilty for not being there. If he doesn't know your in-laws well - he may not respond well to being there. (then again...it may not be a problem)

It would not be wrong or selfish. We know how this will end anyway. Even if he could live a few more months there will be bad and good days, but I'm concerned the stress on you both will simply not be advisable.

There is no moral right or wrong here. It's about what you and Buster need.

 

[Sonya-m]

He likes the in laws a lot and I know he'll be ok there. Yeah I'm scared of not being there for him at the end but I'm making myself sick now.

It's Saturday night here now and if I go on the trip I need to leave at 6am so need to take him to the in laws tonight.

 

[lenarenee]

He'll be well loved and feel safe then! Leave an artice of your unwashed clothing for him to snuggle.

I will be thinking and praying for you both every single day....that you will be home to care for him again. Please rest Sonya. Have a good cry. And know that you've done your best, and done way more than a lot of people would. Have a safe trip, enjoy as much as you can. Big hugs.