Entering the murky world of EU regulations

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Time for an update -

So it seems that in my area there is no issue making things at home in the kitchen per se - as long as I can meet the "Good manufacturing process" and it causes no issues to the neighbours then it is fine.

What might well be an issue is that there appears to be some sort of educational/experienced based requirement that I would need to fulfil to be able to make cosmetics for selling. I'll be running it through with The Admirable Lady this evening to untangle the mix of German and Legalise. I also have the contact information for the office there, so I can arrange an appointment and go and speak with them directly on the subject. Maybe take some bars of soap and do a zap test in front of them as proof that I know what I am doing Again, this is annoying as it is not really an EU requirement, just a local thing. Which is why I think an appointment together would be a good idea.

Oh well, a little step forward and then there is

 

[Twiggy]

Time for an update -

So it seems that in my area there is no issue making things at home in the kitchen per se - as long as I can meet the "Good manufacturing process" and it causes no issues to the neighbours then it is fine.

What might well be an issue is that there appears to be some sort of educational/experienced based requirement that I would need to fulfil to be able to make cosmetics for selling. I'll be running it through with The Admirable Lady this evening to untangle the mix of German and Legalise. I also have the contact information for the office there, so I can arrange an appointment and go and speak with them directly on the subject. Maybe take some bars of soap and do a zap test in front of them as proof that I know what I am doing Again, this is annoying as it is not really an EU requirement, just a local thing. Which is why I think an appointment together would be a good idea.

Oh well, a little step forward and then there is

It makes me so jealous that you will not need to build extra kitchen – but in the same time I’m so happy for you! It must be big relief! How about the other issue, the educational bit – did that meeting took place already? To be completely honest I would join such a course or whatever they require- just to get that extra knowledge for myself.

My update is poor, but in the same time is a big step forward – the cellar redecoration is in progress!!!!

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Latest update -

I only need to meet these educational/experience requirements if I want to register a company. One of the requirement options is that I run a business for 6 years, which of course I couldn't do if I needed to register the company, as I wouldn't have the 6 years................. you get locked in this circle. So I can run it as a sole-trader, no company reg number and so on.

Just working on getting the insurance sorted now.

As for the kitchen, I still have to meet the best practice guidelines, but those are actually quite straight forward, but I will have to soap with the windows closed........................

 

[Twiggy]

I think I didn’t understand - running company and being self-employed (sole-trader) is not the same? I thought that if you self-employed you r running one person company…

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I think I didn’t understand - running company and being self-employed (sole-trader) is not the same? I thought that if you self-employed you r running one person company…

To all intents and purposes, yes. But with no company registration number and so on.

A sole trader is technically a company, but not classed as a company.

 

[Twiggy]

Ok, thank you for the explanation EG

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

No worries - when I wrote it I was trying to make clear something that is not overly clear in the first place Makes it interesting.

But seriously, something needs to be done with all of this regulation being applied differently by different member states.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Another update for this saga, this epic adventure. I am frodo bearing this ring! It's starting to get to me, as you can tell.........

So I went to see someone from the local government regarding all of this company registration and it turns out that I do need to have a company registered. As I don't have the required qualifications, there are two options:

1 - they are looking at whether or not they can put together a test of sorts which shows whether or not someone can make cosmetics (soap is classed as a cosmetic under eu law) even though they don't have a degree in chemistry.

2 - if the test is not possible, I can get someone who does have the qualification to be the name on the registration and then I actually do the work. Then after 6 years I can be the name on the registration

All fun and games. While waiting on that I'm trying to get an idea of insurance costs. If it is too high then the whole thing is a write-off so it's an important piece of information.

The saga continues.........

 

[welsh black]

No wonder there are very few soap makers in the EU, I think I'll make candles!! No hassle and better mark up.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I was the second person in that office that week about soaping, hence their thoughts on a test. I can understand the principle of needing to make sure people can actually safely make cosmetics but it is a bit extreme. Will wait and see what comes.

I was poised to buy a load of wooden bowls with lids from China for shaving soaps - had the production and shipping all sorted out - but it's on hold until I can confirm that I can sell

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Okay, so more progreess:

There IS a course that I can do that would satisfy the authorities here, it's not overly expensive all told. But then I also have to do a course in how to run a business as a self-employed person. That one is a bit more expensive, but between them I'm looking at 900€ so not too bad. Plus, a business course is never a bad idea especially as I am not overly well versed in how things work here in Austria from that point of view.

The remaining hurdle is insurance.....................

.............oh, and getting people to buy my soaps, must not forget that part.

 

[Twiggy]

Well done, so it looks like we both getting there My cellar is still not finished but soon! The heater nad running hot water are connected finally! I’ve contacted my responsible officer from Food and Health department and he had said that he is not interested in all that stuff what has to do with safety assessment, he will newer look in to my papers, so for him I don’t have to run that paper work :crazy: ( yyyy what … ???) OK, I’ll run it any way, just to be on the safe site. What he will do though is, he will come and take the samples of my soap and run some tests on them – then he will truly know what’s in them… Sorry but for me, that wild interpretation of EU law across the Europe is just hilarious!

The open parts are Bauamt - apparently the most difficult here, and insurance. In DE insurance like we need is round 200 E – it is what I’ve heard

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Wow, that is crazy news, but also great that you are also getting there and sorted. It's frightening to think that we can both sell in AT and DE even though both countries have such differing rules................

................. In DE insurance like we need is round 200 E – it is what I’ve heard

Is that per year?

 

[Twiggy]

Is that per year?

Yep, it’s per annual

It is nice, to know things r going further, but sadly I'm quite sure I will not be able sell for this year Christmas :sad:

 

[Twiggy]

Ah, Craig, I’m not sure if u know, but better ask if u need a special scale, here they call it geeichte Waage. Is a special scale it can by use to sell things legal – calibrated and approved by one of your authorities. Is another expensive buy, the cheapest one cost here round 200E, and you can only use it if you products are not lighter than 50 grams. If they are, you need scale for around 400E. That all is so crazy, and so a lot of it, that it make my head spin when I’m trying to thong about it… And seriously – sometimes I just think that kind of rules are made just to scare small manufacturer off…

That is the link to german forum thread if u would like to read more about it :
http://www.seifentreff.de/gewerbliches-seifensieden/geeichte-waage-t12902.html?hilit=waage

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

They haven't said anything on that side of things................yet!

 

[Twiggy]

I’m not sure, but those are the things we should somehow know our self… Look through that forum is a lot of information for Austria as well there. God knows what I still don’t know and is required in DE :wtf:

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Well, I have a LOT of links sent through to me from the WKO. I need to learn it all and then go for a chat with them - if they are satisified that I know my stuff, they'll write a letter to the chap who does the company registrations to tell him so, then he can give me my certificate (it is ALL certificates here) and then I can crack on. If there is something in there about measuring devices then so be it. If not, then for us in this corner (every county is different here!) it might well be okay.