Is that in DE? From the gesundheits Amt?
Entering the murky world of EU regulations
- Thread starter The Efficacious Gentleman
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Is that in DE? From the gesundheits Amt?
Yes, it can be Landesamt für Gesundheit und Lebensmittelsicherheit or like in my case it is Ordnugsamt department Lebensmittelüberwachung. The thing is, in each city that institution has little bit different name, here where I live we had 3 or 4 such offices and it took us a while to find the one responsible for my area. It has to do with “food” here, some sort of Lebensmittelamt.
Did you contacted yours yet?
Did you contacted yours yet?
Not yet - I need to have a word with a few people (there are a few local sellers it seems) to see who I would need to contact. Gah, so much admin - really makes one work for it! Still, it means that not so many people go through all the hoops to sell soap so it isn't such a saturated market.
That is a good idea to do. But if they are so protective about any information like here in DE… That so odd I have to tell. Well I may understand why, as it is so much work to achieve, but on the other hand even with full info in hand not all people will decide to go through that process.
The best idea, if I could give any advises, is to call any Lebensmittelamt in area, and just ask if they are the one to contact. They will lead you further to your responsible person. I already can start with my kitchen redecoration, my SA is nearly done, I still need to contact Bauamt to ask if we need to change officially the purpose of using our cellar kitchen as working place, and Gemaideamt - our community authority to ask them if they don’t mind my having business set in my house…
The best idea, if I could give any advises, is to call any Lebensmittelamt in area, and just ask if they are the one to contact. They will lead you further to your responsible person. I already can start with my kitchen redecoration, my SA is nearly done, I still need to contact Bauamt to ask if we need to change officially the purpose of using our cellar kitchen as working place, and Gemaideamt - our community authority to ask them if they don’t mind my having business set in my house…
Did you have to do much to your kitchen?
My cellar is very old, and ugly… So I basically must do everything there, but also there is some guideline – I will try to find the link for you. What such kitchen must have:
- walls covered completely with easy clean tiles
- 2 washing sinks unites – one to wash hands only, one for soaping purposes
- toilet LOL – but then we said that is in our house, so lucky we can use our toilet
- washing machine can stay in my soaping kitchen (yuppi!!!)
- all devises and furniture has to be easy to keep clean/sterile
- I also find out that I can get SA from UK, in worst case I will have to get it translated…
The fact the washing machine can stay, and the UK SA will be good – was 2 major facts for me. As if the washing machine would be not allowed in such room, then I would need to change my whole project! And of course with English SA I’m saving not small money Plus I was already half way done with them…
EDIT: Ok, I’ve found it!
http://www.ikw.org/fileadmin/content/downloads/Schönheitspflege/SP_Kosmetik-GMP2010.pdf
That should help you to check if you ready to sell, there should be also section where kitchen standards are mentioned – but to be completely honest I didn’t went through it yet…
E.G. have a look on www.ikw.org – you should have such think in Austria too. There is PLANTY to read! I’m glad I was reading since some time here and there, otherwise I would sit and cry if I had to catch up will all this right now :\
- walls covered completely with easy clean tiles
- 2 washing sinks unites – one to wash hands only, one for soaping purposes
- toilet LOL – but then we said that is in our house, so lucky we can use our toilet
- washing machine can stay in my soaping kitchen (yuppi!!!)
- all devises and furniture has to be easy to keep clean/sterile
- I also find out that I can get SA from UK, in worst case I will have to get it translated…
The fact the washing machine can stay, and the UK SA will be good – was 2 major facts for me. As if the washing machine would be not allowed in such room, then I would need to change my whole project! And of course with English SA I’m saving not small money
Plus I was already half way done with them…EDIT: Ok, I’ve found it!
http://www.ikw.org/fileadmin/content/downloads/Schönheitspflege/SP_Kosmetik-GMP2010.pdf
That should help you to check if you ready to sell, there should be also section where kitchen standards are mentioned – but to be completely honest I didn’t went through it yet…
E.G. have a look on www.ikw.org – you should have such think in Austria too. There is PLANTY to read! I’m glad I was reading since some time here and there, otherwise I would sit and cry if I had to catch up will all this right now :\
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Thanks for the links, Twiggy. I need to improve my German reading a little bit
But having read the HSE (UK) Guidelines and some text on the UK SA site, it appears that there in the UK it is okay to use the normal kitchen with some things to watch out for. My argument would be that if someone in the UK can make soap in this way and it meets the EU requirements, then soap made in Austria or Germany also meets the requirements if made in this way.
Tiles are not as easy to clean as a solid covered wall - my kitchen area has a smooth finish that is easier to wipe clean than the grout between tiles.
Was it stated that you could not use your kitchen?
But having read the HSE (UK) Guidelines and some text on the UK SA site, it appears that there in the UK it is okay to use the normal kitchen with some things to watch out for. My argument would be that if someone in the UK can make soap in this way and it meets the EU requirements, then soap made in Austria or Germany also meets the requirements if made in this way.
Tiles are not as easy to clean as a solid covered wall - my kitchen area has a smooth finish that is easier to wipe clean than the grout between tiles.
Was it stated that you could not use your kitchen?
I guess you could try to rise that argument while speaking to you officer- it would be interesting to hear what he/she would reply. I was worried that I will not be able to make it at home at all, and if, then my washing machine will be on the way. So that was my first question, if I can produce my soaps at home, and the answer I got was “Yes, but you need to have separate work room, covered completely with tiles – that is very important. Washing machine is not perfect, but it could stay if you will not make soaps and laundry at the same time. Also laundry detergent must be separated from the soap part and be stored in separate cupboard, or separate room”. O well for me is fair enough, I have room, was going to redecorate it anyway and make there my soaping corner. Now I will just make it little bit higher standards than I was planning at the beginning.
About the translation, I’m using feature/app included in google chrome, it does pretty good job with simple translation, I know not all can be translated, like open in chrom PDF files, but most of the time when I’m too tired reading in German I just let my chrom translated for English – is good enough to understand
About the translation, I’m using feature/app included in google chrome, it does pretty good job with simple translation, I know not all can be translated, like open in chrom PDF files, but most of the time when I’m too tired reading in German I just let my chrom translated for English – is good enough to understand
I use Chrome on my other laptop, so will have a look later. Again, looking through the pdf nothing jumped out that says it cannot be the usual kitchen in theory.
I think is different from one county to another, but also from one office to another within one country or even region… You really should find responsible officer and ask him all that questions, as I’m afraid that we can read tons of stuff, but is that one men who will tell you how it really work for him in his area – he or she will come to check you working place and you documents, so it should be made due to his/hers suggestions. I know is not fair, but it is how it is :\ We are dependent to office workers :\
Dorymae
Well-Known Member
OMG! I'd be grabbing a glass of port and calling an attorney familiar with the regulations. If they get that detailed I'd be afraid of leaving something out!
In some ways it's simple - recipes need to be checked, processes & location need to be okay, paperwork needs to be filed. The issue comes with what the second point actually entails and it seems that each inspector has some leeway with what they think. Certainly more complicated than in the US!
Dorymae
Well-Known Member
Much luck to you! Kudo's to you for taking the time to understand as much of it as possible. I'm sure you'll be very successful in your venture.
I hope so, too. In some ways it's great, as it keeps the competition to a minimum. Just bear in mind, when a country looks to have a free trade agreement with Europe, the most stringent requirement is usually the one that has to be adopted....................
I'm waiting to see if Canada changes to the EU form as we have, or are working on having, a free trade agreement with Europe.
coffeetime
Well-Known Member
Noooo! Say it isn't so, Lindy! It took me forever to register my recipes and make sure my labelling was compliant. If I have to have my house inspected too, I just won't make soap anymore.
Saponista
Well-Known Member
Have you got a link to the HSE guidelines please eff?
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ment_data/file/39334/10-761-guide-to-cpsr.pdf - not the HSE doc, but an interesting read regardless.
Ahem......it appears that I was reading the guidelines for Asia on a HSA site, not the HSE................... :roll:
Ahem......it appears that I was reading the guidelines for Asia on a HSA site, not the HSE................... :roll:
Saponista
Well-Known Member
I do wish there was some centralised European site that laid out everything that was useful in one place. Thanks eff, I will have a gander.
Hard to say what HC will do. I'm hoping they leave us alone. I love the new portal for registering our recipes but I don't want to have to have my home inspected.... :shock:
