Do you understand this safety assessment quantity please?

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Sorry but I would not consider any 100% CO soap good and extremely to harsh for sensitive skin, and if superfatting it at 20% I would be washing with oil. I only use high CO in salt bars, as many do. Looking back to your Jan posting I can't say I would particularly like any of the recipes you posted. Sorry, just putting it out there. You mention acne prone skin, well acne prone skin really needs to be treated gently. Also I do not understand you mention when you sell but then you mention you are selling. Only 1 works
 
Hi. I went through this process with the same assessor last July. I asked the same question, because, after making soap for 4 years and merrily sloshing in essential oil till it smelled nice, the rules for assessment had not come up and I found no info googling the questions.
I was told that it isn't oil weight only, it is in fact oil weight plus sodium hydroxide weight plus 10% of the water weight x whatever % of EO you are putting in. So for me working on 600g oil weight plus 86g SH, plus 10% of water , 17.2g equals 703.2 x 1% equals 7g near enough. My understanding is that 3% is the maximum oil weight even if combing oils though some have lower limits. So my lavender and rosemary soaps I use 21g, lemongrass, I found 2% or 14 g was enough, similarly my sandalwood. Cinnamon leaf oil has a restriction of 1% max so 7g, and it still knocks my socks off at that level. My mint and tea tree 14 g and 7 g respectively and orange and patchouli, 14g orange, 6 g patchouli and 1 g lemongrass. The orange soap is the weakest, I use a 5 fold oil, 10 fold would be better but it is hugely expensive. The others are all pretty pongy. My concern if anything is that I use too much essential oil as it is the single most expensive element of the soap. So, that is how I was told to do it by the same assessor and I am now fully assessed and reasonably happy with the soaps. I think you can make changes to the recipes for an admin fee so getting certified doesn't completely set them in stone.
Hope this helps. I found thexassessor a bit slow to reply sometimes too, but they will eventually and were quite helpful when they did.
 
Can I ask, why did you have to pay another £295?

Hiya, I paid £180 for 8 to be assessed on one recipe originally (just different fragrances colours etc). Then I added a number of other variations of the same recipe to the assessment at £15 each. At the same time I had a new recipe assessed with a number of variations to that also. Because that was a completely new recipe I had to pay another £180 for that. So total paid on about 22 soaps now is £475.

Is your 100% CO soap a salt bar?

No PenelopeJane it is 100% coconut oil bar (with a number of variations of fragrance Eo etc.)

Sorry but I would not consider any 100% CO soap good and extremely to harsh for sensitive skin, and if superfatting it at 20% I would be washing with oil. I only use high CO in salt bars, as many do. Looking back to your Jan posting I can't say I would particularly like any of the recipes you posted. Sorry, just putting it out there. You mention acne prone skin, well acne prone skin really needs to be treated gently. Also I do not understand you mention when you sell but then you mention you are selling. Only 1 works

Yes I understand that 100% coconut oil does not suit everyone but many love it. It is too harsh for some sensitive skins but I have sold kilos of it and had one person sensitive to it. Those who love it, REALLY love it. I love it too, superfat 20%, perfect for me along with many others. Might depend on the oil you use? I also don't understand your comment about "you mention when you sell but then you mention you are selling. " I have said consistently that I have been selling since September with all my soaps safety assessed. What do you do?
 
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We all differ; I find high CO soap too harsh, particularly in winter, but I tend to have somewhat dry skin everywhere but on my face.

I also detest high OO soap. :) It lacks lather, and what little it has is snotty.

I tend to sit in the middle with lots of tallow and lard, and just enough higher conditioning oils to offset it.

Those who love one type of soap tend to really love it--and for every type I make, there's somebody who I gift it to who adores it.
 
Hiya, I paid £180 for 8 to be assessed on one recipe originally (just different fragrances colours etc). Then I added a number of other variations of the same recipe to the assessment at £15 each. At the same time I had a new recipe assessed with a number of variations to that also. Because that was a completely new recipe I had to pay another £180 for that. So total paid on about 22 soaps now is £475.



No PenelopeJane it is 100% coconut oil bar (with a number of variations of fragrance Eo etc.)



Yes I understand that 100% coconut oil does not suit everyone but many love it. It is too harsh for some sensitive skins but I have sold kilos of it and had one person sensitive to it. Those who love it, REALLY love it. I love it too, superfat 20%, perfect for me along with many others. Might depend on the oil you use? I also don't understand your comment about "you mention when you sell but then you mention you are selling. " I have said consistently that I have been selling since September with all my soaps safety assessed. What do you do?
What do I do, I make and sell lots of soap and have been for several yrs
 
I wonder how humidity impacts our skin's reaction to different soap formulas?

For example, my skin felt super moisturized in Hawaii's very moist climate. And in Key West, Florida, my skin felt similarly soft and smooth. I haven't been to Englad in over 20 years, but I do recall the air being rather moist soso it occurs to me that perhaps my skin would not react so poorly to high CO soaps in other climates.

I don't know, but I wonder. Maybe I should test this curiosity out next time I go to Hawaii.
 
I wonder how humidity impacts our skin's reaction to different soap formulas?

For example, my skin felt super moisturized in Hawaii's very moist climate. And in Key West, Florida, my skin felt similarly soft and smooth. I haven't been to Englad in over 20 years, but I do recall the air being rather moist soso it occurs to me that perhaps my skin would not react so poorly to high CO soaps in other climates.

I don't know, but I wonder. Maybe I should test this curiosity out next time I go to Hawaii.

That's an interesting point. I don't have issues with my own 100% coconut oil soap. I use 50% coconut milk with coconut cream to water and maybe this makes the difference?
 
If you want to know that your soap is perfect go and ask your partner or your friends. They will tell you it is lovely. If you give them three different types and you ask them to compare them they will tell you they are all lovely and what a clever soaper you are. If you want to sell you will soon realise that the public are a lot less forgiving."

I wanted to know the answer to a technical question PenelopeJane. Not that my soap is perfect. But I got answers that dissed my business acumen and my recipes.
 
Hi. I went through this process with the same assessor last July. I asked the same question, because, after making soap for 4 years and merrily sloshing in essential oil till it smelled nice, the rules for assessment had not come up and I found no info googling the questions.

Hiya JuliaNegusUK
I am sorry I had not seen your post at all. You have been really helpful with some specifics there and I will read it again with some thought. When I asked the assessor what the maximum I can use together of these 2 EO's is, the reason was so that I could not work in an unsafe manner even though I might choose to use less than the maximum. I am still waiting for him to reply to my question but have much other soap to make in the meantime. Thank you for your time in addressing my question.

Sorry but I would not consider any 100% CO soap good and extremely to harsh for sensitive skin, and if superfatting it at 20% I would be washing with oil. I only use high CO in salt bars, as many do. Looking back to your Jan posting I can't say I would particularly like any of the recipes you posted. Sorry, just putting it out there. You mention acne prone skin, well acne prone skin really needs to be treated gently. Also I do not understand you mention when you sell but then you mention you are selling. Only 1 works

100% coconut oil soap with plenty of coconut milk seems to work for people I find.

I wonder how humidity impacts our skin's reaction to different soap formulas?

Earlene, this sounds like a sensible possibility.
 
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Hi. I went through this process with the same assessor last July.
In all the furore noone seems to have noticed that I did actually try and answer the question.

JuliaNegusuk, I noticed your post.

I did not understand at the time how you knew it was the same assessor. I'm not sure I understand now, either.

That aside, where is the rules that say it's oil weight and sodium hydroxide and 10% water? (Thanks for that, it adds a little information - I knew there was an oddity with the water, but I'm still not certain where to find the rules).
I would still like to know that (so I can toddle off and have a quiet read).

Do you have any reference material I can look up? Rules, regulations, laws? That kind of thing.

Hi. I went through this process with the same assessor last July. I asked the same question, because, after making soap for 4 years and merrily sloshing in essential oil till it smelled nice, the rules for assessment had not come up and I found no info googling the questions.
I was told that it isn't oil weight only, it is in fact oil weight plus sodium hydroxide weight plus 10% of the water weight x whatever % of EO you are putting in. So for me working on 600g oil weight plus 86g SH, plus 10% of water , 17.2g equals 703.2 x 1% equals 7g near enough. My understanding is that 3% is the maximum oil weight even if combing oils though some have lower limits. So my lavender and rosemary soaps I use 21g, lemongrass, I found 2% or 14 g was enough, similarly my sandalwood. Cinnamon leaf oil has a restriction of 1% max so 7g, and it still knocks my socks off at that level. My mint and tea tree 14 g and 7 g respectively and orange and patchouli, 14g orange, 6 g patchouli and 1 g lemongrass. The orange soap is the weakest, I use a 5 fold oil, 10 fold would be better but it is hugely expensive. The others are all pretty pongy. My concern if anything is that I use too much essential oil as it is the single most expensive element of the soap. So, that is how I was told to do it by the same assessor and I am now fully assessed and reasonably happy with the soaps. I think you can make changes to the recipes for an admin fee so getting certified doesn't completely set them in stone.
Hope this helps. I found thexassessor a bit slow to reply sometimes too, but they will eventually and were quite helpful when they did.
 
JuliaNegusuk, I noticed your post.

I did not understand at the time how you knew it was the same assessor. I'm not sure I understand now, either.

SaltedFig - I had mentioned the name of the safety assessor, Scott Grainger and that is why JuliaNegusUK knew she had used the same chap.
 
SaltedFig - I had mentioned the name of the safety assessor, Scott Grainger and that is why JuliaNegusUK knew she had used the same chap.

Thanks for that, makes sense (I must have missed the mention).

Do you have a reference to the rules? (Sorry, I've been after them for months, and not had much luck pinning it down!)
 
Thanks for that, makes sense (I must have missed the mention).

Do you have a reference to the rules? (Sorry, I've been after them for months, and not had much luck pinning it down!)

What rules specifically please?
 
Hi Salted Fig.

I knew it was the same assessor because "Scott Grainger" was mentioned in one of the posts and he is the man behind the company that I went with, so unless he has moved it was a fair assumption. But to clarify, the assessor I used was "Cosmetic Safety Consultants" a fairly well known and well used company in the UK for small scale producers. The problem is there doesn't seem to be any rules as such or if there are they are tricky to track down. There is an FAQ page on their website, just google "Cosmetic Safety Assessment - their name is near enough first. I have just looked at the list of essential oils and it does say that the oils can be used at certain percentages but still (unless I've missed it) don't say percentages of what. I had to ask the question and the info I gave to this forum was the reply I got in the e-mail from them, I couldn't find it any other way. The 10% incidentally, is the amount of water they say remains in the soap after curing, so that is where it comes from. Though I asked them another question later about the order of ingredients and I seem to remember they came up with a slightly different percentage then. I see you are from Oz. These rules may only apply to the EU, so for your country it may be different. From what I gather the EU rules on essential oils for example are stricter than in USA, I don't know about Australia.

I totally agree that this info should be "out there" but for some reason it doesn't appear to be. After having gone through the process there are still some things that I find a bit baffling about assessment. For example at least two of my current ingredients wasn't on their permitted list (they've changed the way they do this now), so again I asked the question and they said "fine". (Madder Root and Tussah Silk for info, and paprika wasn't on their list either though I didn't eventually use it). So it does really seem that the assessment process is pretty much designed to confuse and put off all but the most tenacious of individuals. If that doesn't work just wait till you then have to upload all the gumph to the EU database!

Once you have started the assessment process they send you all sorts of bumph, which I still have. but I'm not sure it would be relevant or useful to you if you are not in the EU. And quite frankly I think some of it just baffled me even more. Plain English is not these peoples' forte!
 
What rules specifically please?

The rules that are required to be followed, to pass your assessments.

Hi Salted Fig.

I knew it was the same assessor because "Scott Grainger" was mentioned in one of the posts and he is the man behind the company that I went with, so unless he has moved it was a fair assumption. But to clarify, the assessor I used was "Cosmetic Safety Consultants" a fairly well known and well used company in the UK for small scale producers. The problem is there doesn't seem to be any rules as such or if there are they are tricky to track down. There is an FAQ page on their website, just google "Cosmetic Safety Assessment - their name is near enough first. I have just looked at the list of essential oils and it does say that the oils can be used at certain percentages but still (unless I've missed it) don't say percentages of what. I had to ask the question and the info I gave to this forum was the reply I got in the e-mail from them, I couldn't find it any other way. The 10% incidentally, is the amount of water they say remains in the soap after curing, so that is where it comes from. Though I asked them another question later about the order of ingredients and I seem to remember they came up with a slightly different percentage then. I see you are from Oz. These rules may only apply to the EU, so for your country it may be different. From what I gather the EU rules on essential oils for example are stricter than in USA, I don't know about Australia.

I totally agree that this info should be "out there" but for some reason it doesn't appear to be. After having gone through the process there are still some things that I find a bit baffling about assessment. For example at least two of my current ingredients wasn't on their permitted list (they've changed the way they do this now), so again I asked the question and they said "fine". (Madder Root and Tussah Silk for info, and paprika wasn't on their list either though I didn't eventually use it). So it does really seem that the assessment process is pretty much designed to confuse and put off all but the most tenacious of individuals. If that doesn't work just wait till you then have to upload all the gumph to the EU database!

Once you have started the assessment process they send you all sorts of bumph, which I still have. but I'm not sure it would be relevant or useful to you if you are not in the EU. And quite frankly I think some of it just baffled me even more. Plain English is not these peoples' forte!

Thanks JuliaNegusuk. Yes, I am in Australia, and our rules seem to sit somewhere between, in that there are registrations and restrictions, but registration of individual recipes is not (currently) required, unless further certifications are sought.

I have read as far as I can research from here, so I'm still after the underlying information.

The "bumph" is useful for anyone wishing to register soaps in the EU. :)
 
What rules specifically please?

Personally, I use Soapcalc for my recipes. It is on this link: http://soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcwp.asp
I didn't ask the assessor about any rules, just researched what is possible to use in soap to good effect and tried and tested various ingredients. For any fragrance oils, I checked the IFRA documents that are available online to make sure I was not using too much. When I had settled on my recipes and additives, I submitted them in hope to the assessor who said that they may need to alter some quantities of ingredients in my recipes. However, they did not amend anything and just submitted the safety documents to me saying that everything had passed safety tests. But their version of the recipes once all in percentages and technical jargon I didn't have the patience to read. It is good enough for me that the quantities and ingredients I am using are fine. They test 8 variations on 1 recipe for £180.

Once assessed safely, you can register with The Guild of Craft Soap And Toiletry Makers, so long as your assessment is submitted to them for approval.

After that in the EU we have to register with the CPNP the Cosmetics Portal Notification Panel.
 
Personally, I use Soapcalc for my recipes. It is on this link: http://soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcwp.asp
I didn't ask the assessor about any rules, just researched what is possible to use in soap to good effect and tried and tested various ingredients. For any fragrance oils, I checked the IFRA documents that are available online to make sure I was not using too much. When I had settled on my recipes and additives, I submitted them in hope to the assessor who said that they may need to alter some quantities of ingredients in my recipes. However, they did not amend anything and just submitted the safety documents to me saying that everything had passed safety tests. But their version of the recipes once all in percentages and technical jargon I didn't have the patience to read. It is good enough for me that the quantities and ingredients I am using are fine. They test 8 variations on 1 recipe for £180.

Ok. Thanks for replying.
 
Salted Fig.

I have various info but in e-mail form as attachments. Can you exchange e-mails on this forum? As you say you have to meet EU requirements to import. All the rules should be somewhere on the EU central database but they are not very user friendly. And some you might not be able to access without registering first eg the mysteries of the EU cosmetics database. A lot of this info you seem to only be able to get once you start the assessment process, but they never said it was a secret so I don't see why I shouldn't share.

I have just revisited my assessment report. Despite submitting all my ingredients at 3% max based on the info I described in my first post (Oils plus SH plus 10% water), they pinged it back to me as a percentage of oil weight only (I had forgotten this). So god help me I don't know what's going on. Presumably this may have been what confused Soapstars.

Looking at Soapstars most recent answer I did it the other way around to some extent, establishing the rules first then submitting near enough to the max I could get away with. One of the things you will find on the assessor's website is detailed info on how they like you to present things as well as a searchable database for ingredients and recipes as well.

I am taking a couple of hours off as my partner thinks I've left him. But shall return later!
 
Salted Fig.

I have various info but in e-mail form as attachments. Can you exchange e-mails on this forum? As you say you have to meet EU requirements to import. All the rules should be somewhere on the EU central database but they are not very user friendly. And some you might not be able to access without registering first eg the mysteries of the EU cosmetics database. A lot of this info you seem to only be able to get once you start the assessment process, but they never said it was a secret so I don't see why I shouldn't share.

I have just revisited my assessment report. Despite submitting all my ingredients at 3% max based on the info I described in my first post (Oils plus SH plus 10% water), they pinged it back to me as a percentage of oil weight only (I had forgotten this). So god help me I don't know what's going on. Presumably this may have been what confused Soapstars.

Looking at Soapstars most recent answer I did it the other way around to some extent, establishing the rules first then submitting near enough to the max I could get away with. One of the things you will find on the assessor's website is detailed info on how they like you to present things as well as a searchable database for ingredients and recipes as well.

I am taking a couple of hours off as my partner thinks I've left him. But shall return later!

I found loads of help on You Tube and on Soap Queen TV, which is also on You Tube. As well as on here. I googled for much information and trusted that what sounded like a good idea and worked for others would work for me too. I didn't even look on the assessors website as I didn't know about them then when I was researching and testing recipes and additives. I go for as natural as possible in most cases. I don't know if you can exchange emails on here though. I don't import anything but I do have insurance that covers me for overseas sales.

Once I had decided to get the assessment done, I just emailed them and they told me to put my recipes in an email to them with ingredients and gram weights so I was surprised when it all came back in a different format (percentages)!
 
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