Do you understand this safety assessment quantity please?

[Soapstars]

Hiya, I have had a Tea Tree & Rosemary soap safety assessed. I wanted to know from the assessor how many grams of each I could put into 900g of oils but it has shown as a percentage, It shows weight % to soap base as 1.23% of rosemary EO and 1.23% of the tea tree EO.

Can anyone help please?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Steve85569]

900 x .0123 =11.07
So it looks like 11 grams of each from the information given.
1.23% - 1.23 x .01 so .0123
You are using 900 grams of oils ( soap base). As long as only the oils are being considered as your base that is the correct formulation.

 

[cmzaha]

Oh, I am sure to get myself in trouble here, but I have to ask how long you have been making soap. If you are ready to sell you should have known the answer. I cannot imagine having to ask such a question if you have been making soap long enough to know you have a good formula/recipe and pay the assessment costs, which I assume are not cheap. Very seldom in the beginning is our soap anywhere near what it will be a year down the road with trials, errors and lots of testing.

 

[LilyJo]

Not sure I understand - if you are ready to get soap safety assessed shouldnt you have submitted your recipe including either a percentage OR actual weight in grams as part of the assessment? Isnt that a fundamental part of the assessment?????

 

[SaltedFig]

Hiya, I have had a Tea Tree & Rosemary soap safety assessed. I wanted to know from the assessor how many grams of each I could put into 900g of oils but it has shown as a percentage, It shows weight % to soap base as 1.23% of rosemary EO and 1.23% of the tea tree EO.

Can anyone help please?

Thanks in advance!

The assessor is not going to want you to be uncertain about what a soap base is, so you will need to understand that definition very clearly in the context of your local rules and regulations.

Because it is a critical piece of knowledge, I would not suggest relying on any internet forum to give you the correct answer. It might be worth you approaching a local soaping guild, they will point you in the right direction. Having said that, with the information you have provided, the quantities in Steve's calculations will be guaranteed to pass (but won't necessarily give you the maximum).

This might be a good resource for you: Guild of Craft Soap an Toiletry Makers (UK)

 

[LilyJo]

Something about this was bothering me so I went back and reread a few things - not that long ago IJanuary) you were asking for recipes and help in formulating a Tea Tree/Rosemary soap and asking about %ages for EO . Is this the same soap? If so, (a) surely you should know how much EO you have used to make your testing batches and (b)why are you getting it safety assessed if you have only made this for just over a month?

 

[Soapstars]

Hello Soapers,

I feel slightly told off here and I will answer all your questions in response to my own.

Firstly - Steve 85569. Thank you for your helpful reply. I had come to the same conclusion myself and that is why I queried it. The tea tree EO safe use says only 3% on Mystic Moments website and so to use 11% seems wrong and this is why I questioned it. I have taken it up with the safety assessor. I phoned, left a message. I emailed and a week later still no response yet. I know they are busy so I will wait. I wasn't absolutely certain that soap base was only oils, that's why I questioned it.

cmzaha - I started making soap in March 2017. I practised soapmaking until September when I had my recipe ready for assessment. I had my soaps assessed then and began to sell. I submitted my recipes in grams to the safety assessor Scott Grainger whi is afiliated with the Guild of Craft Soap and Toiletry Makers. It cost £180. Because my weights and measures, ingredients were all submitted in grams and were certified as ok, I used them with success. And yes, my soap is better now than it was last year. I sell on the Internet and on websites as I follow my passion.

LilyJo - Yes, I submitted it all in gram weights as mentioned above. Just one new soap among the 22 I have had assessed, I was not sure about the qty of EO I am able to use as the tea tree says 3% and along with the rosemary eo I just wasn't sure. I have not sold any of that yet as I need it confirming first. I have not made it either. So when I submitted my recipes to the assessor there was one question submitted at the same time and that was the question. They completed my assessment and I have all the documents. But as I work in gram weights and not percentages it meant nothing to me. I paid another £295.

SaltedFig - If the soap base is just the oils I now know what it is. I have two assessed recipes, no problem.

LilyJo - Your research into my past messages - I made a loaf with tea tree oil for me and my family using just the 3% that the seller says to use. No problem with the soap but I would like to use more tea tree if possible and mix 50/50 with rosemary and as I don't just get on and DO IT I wanted the usable amounts confirming by an expert first. As I say I have approached them.

I am also a member of the Guild of Craft Soap and Toiletry Makers, but as I have already been dealing with the assessor I was waiting for him answer and in the meantime asked on here what you all think. Now I know. You can all rest assured that I am doing everything by the book, including labelling my soap, batch numbers, batch paperwork, use by dates. The lot. Part of the assessment below.

 

[penelopejane]

Those are such small percentages I don’t think the rosemary or tea tree scent are going to come through in the final soap.
How disappointing. Especially since the IFRA usage rates are so much higher.

 

[Soapstars]

Those are such small percentages I don’t think the rosemary or tea tree scent are going to come through in the final soap.
How disappointing. Especially since the IFRA usage rates are so much higher.

Yes, this is Australian tea tree oil and rosemary. I will check it out with the assessor. There is no ifra doc for the tt. But 1.23% of 900g is 11g which when you add the rosemary to it - total 22g of EO's. But the tea tree says to use only 3% on the sellers website.

900 x .0123 =11.07
So it looks like 11 grams of each from the information given.
1.23% - 1.23 x .01 so .0123
You are using 900 grams of oils ( soap base). As long as only the oils are being considered as your base that is the correct formulation.

Thank you.

 

[penelopejane]

Yes, this is Australian tea tree oil and rosemary. I will check it out with the assessor. There is no ifra doc for the tt. But 1.23% of 900g is 11g which when you add the rosemary to it - total 22g of EO's. But the tea tree says to use only 3% on the sellers website. .

Yes using both at that low % is a complete waste as the scent won’t come through. I feel for you with the assessment rigmarole. We don’t have that in Australia.

 

[Soapstars]

Yes using both at that low % is a complete waste as the scent won’t come through. I feel for you with the assessment rigmarole. We don’t have that in Australia.

Thank you. How fortunate you are. Its the EU laws that are just over the top I think.

 

[Arimara]

Soapstars, you are aware that many who commented earlier are wary because we do get some newbies who actually try to sell soap within weeks of learning how to soap, right? I don't mean to speak for them but I believe they were concerned about a newbie looking to sell. You have barely made it to a full year and you're going about as if you plan to sell. Many of the more established soapers who do sell have take considerably more time to test the recipes they want to sell, testing ratios of FOs or EOs they want to use and even paying attention to the aesthetics of the soap. Would your soap make the cut after a year on a shelf? How would they smell after a year? How would they look after a year? Did you soap get better after a year in limbo?

Well, don't mind me too much, I'm just throwing a few things out there. I do commend you for looking into the legalities of selling though. That's more than how MANY do things regardless of where they may reside. That's promising enough for me to wish you some luck.

 

[SaltedFig]

SaltedFig - If the soap base is just the oils I now know what it is. I have two assessed recipes, no problem.

My point was, you need to know what the definition of soap base is, according to the rules you work under, not us on this forum.

The percentages that you have to work with are very low, but I would find the tea tree strong enough at 1.23% of the whole batter, if all of the ingredients are included. That would make it about 1.8% of oils (by rough calculation), which is a lot different to 1.23% of oils when it comes to tea tree.

This isn't saying Steve is wrong at all, but Steve has given you a safe working value that will bring you within the guidelines. This value may not be the ACTUAL maximum you are allowed, or it might be. The only way to know that for sure is the know what the definition of soap base is.

And you can't assume soap batter is all of the ingredients, because often these rules exclude water.

I was trying to assist you by pointing out that by knowing, you may be able to increase the value of the scent above the figure Steve has given you. Do you see why I am trying to encourage you to check the rules?

If you are already a member of the guild, what does your fellow guild members say the definition of a soap base is? I wouldn't mind knowing for sure too, and in fact I wouldn't mind knowing where it is written as well (this question comes up a bit), so if you are able to find the rules, it would be great if you could share them

 

[shunt2011]

The concern for many is you have only come here to ask questions that a somewhat experience soap maker would/should know before selling.

Also, in June you were asking for people to review recipes and stated you were new to soap making at that time as well. You also stated you submitted recipes for assessment in July (per your own posts). Nobody told you off. They were asking questions and showing concern in regards to your question and others you have had in the resent past. Also, just coming here to ask questions and not being a participating member and helping others will cause different reactions too.

We have a lot of very passionate member here who have a true love what we do and offer their help freely.

You may want to read some of the stickies in the forums to see why you are getting some of the responses you are.

 

[Soapstars]

Thank you Amara, I think it is the tone sometimes that gets to us.

I have made it to one year exactly and this has not been a pass time for me but I have easily done 40 hour weeks for some months now. All my soaps were tested on myself, family and friends at the beginning. Much free soap was given away and much feedback received before I ever attempted to sell any. Also I had the safety assessment on my first recipe done before selling any too. I still have some soap from my first batches and it is just as good now as then. no change. I think a lot depends on how it is kept and the quality of the ingredients. Any soaps where the fragrance disappeared or that just didn't look good were not continued. I am definitely going about it as if I plan to sell. I have been selling since September last year and had no problems whatever. I am encouraged by the feedback I get from the people who buy my soap and will continue to improve in any way I can over the coming years. We have strict laws here in Europe and they will be adhered to. I have been a businesswomen since 1983 so have an idea how to do business, legally.

 

[Soapstars]

I will be in touch with the assessor when I can about it. I will only be using what he says I can use safely as a maximum. My question on here was just thrown into the mix to see what others thought prior to speaking to the assessor, who is absent right now. I have not been in touch with the Guild about this question. I have plenty of other soaps to make until he gets back to me. I will post his answer here when I have it.

Thank you for your time in handling my question.

 

[SaltedFig]

Correction ... read soap BASE where I wrote batter please (it's not even dawn here yet ... the birds dawn chorus isn't even in full swing yet ).

I will be in touch with the assessor when I can about it. I will only be using what he says I can use safely as a maximum. My question on here was just thrown into the mix to see what others thought prior to speaking to the assessor, who is absent right now. I have not been in touch with the Guild about this question. I have plenty of other soaps to make until he gets back to me. I will post his answer here when I have it.

Thank you for your time in handling my question.

Welcome ... I look forward to finding out too!

 

[Soapstars]

Something about this was bothering me so I went back and reread a few things - not that long ago IJanuary) you were asking for recipes and help in formulating a Tea Tree/Rosemary soap and asking about %ages for EO . Is this the same soap? If so, (a) surely you should know how much EO you have used to make your testing batches and (b)why are you getting it safety assessed if you have only made this for just over a month?

Whilst I have not made any of this soap yet (except the small batch for myself with just the tea tree in it) - the recipe itself is my usual recipe that I have been making for a year. The only difference being the EO's. It still has to be safety assessed even though its the same recipe.

Whilst I have not made any of this soap yet (except the small batch for myself with just the tea tree in it) - the recipe itself is my usual recipe that I have been making for a year. The only difference being the EO's. It still has to be safety assessed even though its the same recipe.

By the way - I was not asking for recipes back in January. If you take another look I mentioned what my two recipes actually are and asked which you all thought would be the better one for the tea tree & rosemary recipe. I have just these two base recipes. I have chosen to go with the 100% coconut oil one.

 

[Saffron]

Hello Soapers,

They completed my assessment and I have all the documents. But as I work in gram weights and not percentages it meant nothing to me. I paid another £295.

Can I ask, why did you have to pay another £295?

 

[penelopejane]

Is your 100% CO soap a salt bar?