Candle wax in soap

[Jack]

My mutton fat supply has dried up so I switched to used canola from our fryer to make hard soap. After a year of aging, it seems like a decent soap but not as hard as I like.

Wanting to avoid pricey hardening oils, I made a test bar with 90% canola and 10% candle wax.

The only surprise is that so far, there is no difference at all after two days.

Can't find a word on the net about using any wax other than beeswax for soap so here I am.

What can I expect?

Thanks,

Jack

 

[DeeAnna]

Candle wax can be any of a myriad of products, from beeswax to soy "wax" to paraffin wax. And also blends of all of these.

You're going to have to narrow down the field to a specific wax material to have a decent chance at an intelligent discussion.

 

[Jack]

My mutton fat supply has dried up so I switched to used canola from our fryer to make hard soap. After a year of aging, it seems like a decent soap but not as hard as I like.

Wanting to avoid pricey hardening oils, I made a test bar with 90% canola and 10% candle wax.

The only surprise is that so far, there is no difference at all after two days.

Can't find a word on the net about using any wax other than beeswax for soap so here I am.

What can I expect?

Thanks,

Jack

The type of candle wax is basic paraffin as used in canning.

js

 

[KiwiMoose]

I use soy wax at 20% of my recipe - the pure soy with no additives.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

My mutton fat supply has dried up so I switched to used canola from our fryer to make hard soap. After a year of aging, it seems like a decent soap but not as hard as I like.

Wanting to avoid pricey hardening oils, I made a test bar with 90% canola and 10% candle wax.

The only surprise is that so far, there is no difference at all after two days.

Can't find a word on the net about using any wax other than beeswax for soap so here I am.

What can I expect?

Thanks,

Jack

Do you live in U.S. ? Lard is an inexpensive oil which is a solid oil, also coconut oil, which are both available across most of the U.S. Other than beeswax or pure soy wax, I am not aware of anyone using other waxes AND for those, not usually more than 20% maximum, which means you may want additional solid oils in your recipe.
To reach properties of the soap that you would like to create, have you tried using a soap calculator?

 

[DeeAnna]

Paraffin wax essentially does not saponify. It would function in soap as an inert filler, even more so than beeswax. I imagine there have been a few small-scale soapmakers who have tried paraffin wax in soap from time to time, but it's not a normal soap making ingredient and I don't recall any discussion about it over the years.

The only discussion I can recall about adding larger amounts of any type of wax in soap was from a soap maker who added a lot of beeswax to their soap and then wondered why their soap was unusually soft. They wanted soap that felt like a block of wax when handled. I think the moral of that story is just because a material like paraffin wax or beeswax is hard all on its own doesn't automatically mean it will create the same hardness when mixed into another material like soap.

I question the utility of adding ingredients to prop up one property -- hardness for example -- but really doesn't contribute anything to the soap performing well with a balanced blend of properties. I'd rather formulate a soap with a decent balance of physical hardness, long life, mildness, good lather that come directly from the fats or fatty acids used to make the soap.

A canola soap, for example, will be improved by adding a source of palmitic and stearic fatty acids -- lard, tallow, palm, the nut butters, Kiwi's hydrogenated soybean oil (aka soy wax), etc. Increasing the palmitic and stearic soap content will create a bar that is not just physically harder but also longer lived and milder to the skin.

And then one could add a bit of fat high in lauric and myristic acids (coconut, palm kernel, etc.) to improve the quality of the lather.

 

[Ekuzo]

This is the first time I hear about using paraffin in handmade soap. I'm curious if it brings something to the table (probably hardness?). I hope you can keep us updated on the results, I want to know how it behaves in the shower, and if you notice any benefits, etc. I mean, I won't advise on doing that usually, but since you already made soap with paraffin, it would be nice to know what happened, for scientific purposes lol

I don't even know if it would be safe for the skin actually - it's a petroleum product which is used in cosmetics and even the food industry with various applications, but I have no idea how the interaction with lye would change it and whether or not it would become toxic because of that. I never used any in soap, so take the following words with a grain of salt - I'm not an advocate for using paraffin in soap and this is only hypothetical.

From what I read, it's used for making synthetic fatty acids - which is cool - but I didn't find any information about any of the ingredients in it being able to saponify without being processed. In that case, theoretically, IF it's safe to use in soap, it probably shouldn't be used in a percentage higher than 1-2 % of total oil weight - or it would, again, theoretically, mess up with the soap qualities in a bad way or at least won't provide benefits (if there are any).

Now, when it comes to the most common animal and plant-based waxes, we on the forum are familiar ‐ and there's actually plenty of info on their use in soap. To summarise ‐ I use beeswax at 1-2% of oil weight, but people say up to 8% is ok. I use soy wax at 20‐30%, and if you use 50‐60% you can make a shaving soap. Both waxes help in making the bar hard and long lasting, but in the shaving soap in particular people use the soy wax because it contributes to the stable creamy lather which is very important for shaving.

I hope that was helpful!



P.S.: I saw DeeAnna's message just before posting mine and it does answer some of my questions, but I'm too lazy to edit and I'll just leave it like that. I hope it still contributes to the overall conversation, even a little bit

 

[Jack]

First of all, thanks for all the thoughts and comments. I am even more amazed that I have still to hear of a single person who has used paraffin in soap.

Secondly, my reason for making soap at all is because every couple of months we dump and refill our deep fryer and this is one of several ways we reuse the oil.

I also make candles and found a wonderful way of using it in a unique way that is more suited to the candle forum but briefly, I heat the oil to the melting point of the wax and add 10% wax to this. It burns beautifully with the proper wick and is not a disaster if accidentally tipped over as it has about the same density as lard.

A really nice feature is that you can just poke a wick into it when hardened. When nearly exhausted, pull out the old wick, fill it again with the same mix and poke a new wick in.

Back to soap....

I make liquid soap with the oil and KOH for hand soap and dishes and it is all one could ask for. Just don't try it in the dishwasher.. we did and it was a mess. Don't use the dishwasher anyway as it's not practical for 2 people.

For some reason, Walmart no longer carries lamb breasts which produce vast amounts of hard fat in addition to the best tasting part of a sheep. This forces us to try to make hard soap from canola but it just does not hold up very well in the shower. Hence the point of this thread.

Buying exotic oils/fats to solve the problem takes all the fun out of making soap.

I made bars with salt, 1% and 10% paraffin and just hoping it would harden it up a bit. There is lather to spare so that would not be an issue.

Guess I will just have to wait for the jury.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Ekuzo]

First of all, thanks for all the thoughts and comments. I am even more amazed that I have still to hear of a single person who has used paraffin in soap.

Secondly, my reason for making soap at all is because every couple of months we dump and refill our deep fryer and this is one of several ways we reuse the oil.

I also make candles and found a wonderful way of using it in a unique way that is more suited to the candle forum but briefly, I heat the oil to the melting point of the wax and add 10% wax to this. It burns beautifully with the proper wick and is not a disaster if accidentally tipped over as it has about the same density as lard.

A really nice feature is that you can just poke a wick into it when hardened. When nearly exhausted, pull out the old wick, fill it again with the same mix and poke a new wick in.

Back to soap....

I make liquid soap with the oil and KOH for hand soap and dishes and it is all one could ask for. Just don't try it in the dishwasher.. we did and it was a mess. Don't use the dishwasher anyway as it's not practical for 2 people.

For some reason, Walmart no longer carries lamb breasts which produce vast amounts of hard fat in addition to the best tasting part of a sheep. This forces us to try to make hard soap from canola but it just does not hold up very well in the shower. Hence the point of this thread.

Buying exotic oils/fats to solve the problem takes all the fun out of making soap.

I made bars with salt, 1% and 10% paraffin and just hoping it would harden it up a bit. There is lather to spare so that would not be an issue.

Guess I will just have to wait for the jury.

Thanks,

Jack

I'm with Nona'sFarm on this one. Fats like lard, palm and coconut are pretty common for soap making, at most places they are one of the cheapest you can use that produce great results. They are essentials when it comes to base oils. And unless there is an exception of some sort, they are not considered luxury oils by any stretch.

You are used to working with animal fat and you know well what it brings in a soap. Another option would be tallow (I don't render and that's why the only animal fat I have that I want to use in soap is some ready to use lard I bought from a store some days back - couldn't find tallow that's already rendered).

The thing is, all those oils that were mentioned contribute to great soap and it's hard to replicate their properties with other oils (even if you manage to do so, you will need to buy more expensive and luxury fats and butters to make a similar hard bar). So think about adding CO, PO, or some other animal fat if the canola oil turns out too soft to your liking and needs to be cured for a long period (you said even after a year it's still not too hard).

But I understand why you would want to reuse it for soap. I'll assume that the canola you use is high oleic (that's what's used in deep friers), so high canola oil soap won't develop DOS as the regular, high linoleic/linolenic would (at least in theory and when it comes to fresh oil, I'm not familiar with the qualities of the cooked oil). So it will bring qualities similar to those of OO and HO sunflower oil (again, in theory). You can make great bastille soap with 70% canola (as long as it's high oleic) and 30% hard oils - like a combination of CO and PO (or lard). The bar will be harder and you won't need to wait that long until it's cured, just in a couple of months or even less you will be able to use it. And 70% is not a small amount of canola, you will still be able to reuse the one from the fryer, though a little more slowly. If you really need to put paraffin in it, keep the amount minimal, as I still think it doesn't bring much to the qualities of the soap and it's mostly filler, as DeeAnna said. And fillers in big amounts can inhibit lather and/or add other undesired effects. You said even with 10% paraffin it still doesn't feel hard enough, so it's not doing much for that matter.

Also, I'm curious - do you notice any difference in the used canola soap, have you made soap with fresh canola for reference? I'm curious how the frier affects the quality of the final soap produced, because I'm not familiar with the process the intensively heated oil goes through. Do you "wash/clean" the used oil in any way other than straining it, or do you use it as it is? I've read people use salty hot (not boiling of course) water to do that.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

Hi @Jack ,
I applaud you, that your family wants to reuse/repurpose your used oils. When it comes to soapmaking each oil lends different properties to the soap. As explained by @DeeAnna paraffin wax does not saponify, so therefore does not become soap. It kind of would end up being suspended in the soap. If that is the case, I personally would be leery of the impact on my plumbing as paraffin in my soap went down the drain.
The reason that the more experienced soap makers are suggesting to add additional oils is the chemistry of the oils - the fatty acid profile. @DeeAnna has written an excellent article about what the different fatty acids contribute to soap - https://classicbells.com/soap/soapCalcNumbers.asp
If your home rule for soap is to only be able to use byproducts of other processes you also already have in place, you may be out of luck for soap hardness or longevity; unless you get another source for a fat with more palmitic and stearic fatty acids. Lard is available at WalMart and is fairly inexpensive, particularly compared to cocoa butter or shea butter (these are the types of oil I would consider luxury). So that is the sum of it, be happy that you're repurposing your oils and be aware that a 100% canola oil soap makes a very gentle soap, but will not last as long or be as hard as your "mutton soap" or add other oils that have more palmitic and stearic fatty acids.

Best wishes for your continued repurposing. I applaud you.

 

[AliOop]

Is it possible to replace your mutton tallow by locally sourcing some beef fat to render into tallow, or pig fat to render into lard?

 

[paradisi]

First of all, thanks for all the thoughts and comments. I am even more amazed that I have still to hear of a single person who has used paraffin in soap.

Secondly, my reason for making soap at all is because every couple of months we dump and refill our deep fryer and this is one of several ways we reuse the oil.

I also make candles and found a wonderful way of using it in a unique way that is more suited to the candle forum but briefly, I heat the oil to the melting point of the wax and add 10% wax to this. It burns beautifully with the proper wick and is not a disaster if accidentally tipped over as it has about the same density as lard.

A really nice feature is that you can just poke a wick into it when hardened. When nearly exhausted, pull out the old wick, fill it again with the same mix and poke a new wick in.

Back to soap....

I make liquid soap with the oil and KOH for hand soap and dishes and it is all one could ask for. Just don't try it in the dishwasher.. we did and it was a mess. Don't use the dishwasher anyway as it's not practical for 2 people.

For some reason, Walmart no longer carries lamb breasts which produce vast amounts of hard fat in addition to the best tasting part of a sheep. This forces us to try to make hard soap from canola but it just does not hold up very well in the shower. Hence the point of this thread.

Buying exotic oils/fats to solve the problem takes all the fun out of making soap.

I made bars with salt, 1% and 10% paraffin and just hoping it would harden it up a bit. There is lather to spare so that would not be an issue.

Guess I will just have to wait for the jury.

Thanks,

Jack

You're buying the paraffin, though

 

[AliOop]

For some reason, Walmart no longer carries lamb breasts which produce vast amounts of hard fat in addition to the best tasting part of a sheep. This forces us to try to make hard soap from canola but it just does not hold up very well in the shower. Hence the point of this thread.

Sorry I missed this bit when reading it earlier.

A good substitute for your mutton fat would be to buy a large hunk of pork shoulder/butt roast at Walmart (or Costco - very similarly priced). These are generally so large that I have to cut them in half, and put one half into each of my two crockpots. After slow-cooking all day, you will have the most tender pulled pork that can be portioned out, to be frozen into whatever serving size you prefer... AND you will have several quarts of rendered lard. I strain this off and clean it. It makes fantastic soap and will give you the extra bar hardness you are looking for.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I just found this: https://balmonds.co.uk/blogs/blog/the-problem-with-paraffin-in-emollients
Bear in mind they are promoting their own (non-paraffin) products, but they do make a strong case..

 

[Ekuzo]

You're buying the paraffin, though

Yeah, but he's using it for candles so he has plenty of it, it's not specifically purchased for this. Just trying to combine a little with the soft soap from the cooked oils to make it harder (and I can see some logic behind that), but so far the results are not satisfying

 

[BWt]

Here is what AI has about paraffin in liquid soap: “
AI Overview

Paraffin, also known as white mineral oil, is an emollient agent that can be found in liquid soaps, creams, lotions, lip balms, and ointments. It can help moisturize the skin and make it feel smooth and silky, especially for people with dry or flaky skin. Paraffin works as an occlusive moisturizer, forming a barrier on the skin to prevent water loss.
However, paraffin can also have some negative effects:
Allergic reactions

• According to the American Contact Dermatitis Society, 10–15% of people may develop an allergic reaction to cosmetics and personal care products that contain paraffin. If the paraffin contains a dye, people who are allergic to that dye may experience tongue and throat swelling, wheezing, and difficulty breathing.
• Environmental impact
  Paraffin is not biodegradable and can take hundreds of years to break down in the environment. When released into the water supply, it can harm aquatic life and damage ecosystems.

 

[Ekuzo]

So, basically, paraffin is a no-no. We should just stick to SW and BW.

Here is what AI has about paraffin in liquid soap: “
AI Overview

Paraffin, also known as white mineral oil, is an emollient agent that can be found in liquid soaps, creams, lotions, lip balms, and ointments. It can help moisturize the skin and make it feel smooth and silky, especially for people with dry or flaky skin. Paraffin works as an occlusive moisturizer, forming a barrier on the skin to prevent water loss.
However, paraffin can also have some negative effects:
Allergic reactions

• According to the American Contact Dermatitis Society, 10–15% of people may develop an allergic reaction to cosmetics and personal care products that contain paraffin. If the paraffin contains a dye, people who are allergic to that dye may experience tongue and throat swelling, wheezing, and difficulty breathing.
• Environmental impact
  Paraffin is not biodegradable and can take hundreds of years to break down in the environment. When released into the water supply, it can harm aquatic life and damage ecosystems.

 

[DeeAnna]

So, basically, paraffin is a no-no. We should just stick to SW and BW.

I have no idea what SW and BW mean.

Also the OP is talking about solid paraffin, not paraffin oil. While they're related, they aren't the same. People who rely on AI for science-based info need to fact check AI before assuming the info is correct or even relevant.

 

[AliOop]

I believe that SW = soy wax and BW = beeswax.

 

[Jack]

My internet was down from about the time I wrote this and before I got around to sending it so it's a bit dated.

In addition, my opinion on AI is lower than just another source to consider.

Some of our Monarch butterfly eggs never hatch so we searched out on sterile Monarchs. After a page or two of typical stuff they got into how some of the larvae turn into drones and some into workers.

Clearly some Automatic ***** got side tracked to bee biology..............



Thanks again for all the thoughts.

My take away is:

Wax in my hair and clogging the drains seem like good reasons to find a better solution. Anyone remember "greasy kid's stuff" of the 50's?

Lard seems like a good off the grid alternative but how do I determine how much lard would it take to make canola soap hard. Seems like it would have to be all lard to get as hard as lard soap?

The other problem is that the only readily available lard is hydrogenated and I don't know if this affects the soap characteristics.

I don't mind rendering pork fat for pie crust but it's a bit over the hill for soap.

I will report back in a few months on actual results of my test bars.

js