botanical colors, some are good but beware of chlorophyll!!

[agriffin]

I think it's because of the copper.

 

[soapopera]

I think it's because of the copper.

I saw these info about DOS in the Cavemen site. Was there updated info that I had left out?

Metal Contamination
• EDTA seems to work by sequestering metals
• Calcium and Iron reduce shelf life
• Copper has no effect on shelf life
• Use distilled water if your tap water is high in Calcium or Iron
• Calcium and Iron may be present in oils or lyes

 

[green soap]

Hazel, you are welcome! I have been lurking a learning for a while, glad to contribute something. At the very least I wanted to warn people about the chlorophyll.

I only had one success adding color from infusions, but a couple of very nice results adding scent. I will start an infused oil thread. I only tried six combinations so far but plan on doing more. I am also very curious about what other folks are doing with infusions.

Bakingnana, as Debbism points out, indigo is used in hair dye, and even in Celtic body paintings. It is also the dye that makes blue jeans blue. Most of us have been wearing jeans all our lives. I still would not ingest it though! I have no experience with alkanet, woad or the other blue/purple natural dyes. I basically just wanted my green soap back! Indigo is working well so far, and it is cheap because you need so little of it. I ordered some lavender EO though, so achieving purple or lavender color would be nice. Not sure how I will do that yet.

Agriffin and Prairiecraft. I could not bring myself to take pictures of the big DOS mess. I just tossed them all away. I hated how they made my soap curing room smell rancid. I have now distanced myself emotionally from it, and I saw the first little orange spot on the green soap I have left that had chlorophyll (but less of it and also had some rosemary). I will take some pictures and get over myself. I am very curious to see your pictures. Sorry that you two had to go trough that, and thanks for posting.

Rosa (green soap)

 

[Fragola]

I am curious, how soon do the DOS emerge ?

 

[green soap]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll

There is a Magnesium ion in the center of the chlorophyll molecule, apparently this is the culprit (scroll down the wikipedia article) I don't have the chemical reaction details, but somehow gelling accelerates this reaction. I mean the reaction by which the Mg in the chlorophyll breaks down the oils and causes rancidity. Also, rosemary OR seems to suppress it, or at least slow it down.

Soapopera (love the name!) maybe it is your base oils that are adding an unwanted color, and you get a graying effect from it. Maybe your source of indigo? I use pre-reduced indigo crystals. Also be sure you add the indigo to the lye water, not to the oils.

I'll post a picture showing how the base oil affected the green/blue color in a couple of soap batches.

 

[green soap]

[/url]
soap inserts2 by rosetalleo, on Flickr[/img]

In this picture you can see four of the soaps have a lighter background (the part of the soap which is not inserts/embeds). I used a tiny amount of colorant and got either aqua or celadon green. The amount and type of colorant was the same, the base oils were different.

 

[green soap]

I am curious, how soon do the DOS emerge ?

In my experience anytime from as early as 3 weeks to my recently discovered DOS three months after I made the soap. I noticed that how soon the DOS formed and how bad it was depended on the amount of chlorophyll I used, gelling or not gelling, and the gelling temperature. The higher T the worse, the more chlorophyll the worse.

It sounds like Prairiecraft and Agriffin noticed the DOS rather quickly. Both are very bad, the three months one is worse since it could end up happening inadvertently to a soap you might have gifted (or sold).

 

[soapopera]

My blue colourant is in a blue powder form. I mixed it into the lye solution. I'll try and upload some pix and the ratio I mixed it in. I reckon the base oils does effect colour. I was using Olive, Palm, Coconut and Castor.

 

[Lindy]

This is fascinating - thank you. I have some chlorophyll that I was planning on using for colouring - I won't now. Thank you so much for sharing this information.

Now I need to go hunting for some indigo....

 

[BakingNana]

Another question on Indigo - Any problems with a strong color staining wash cloths or towels? I can't get over the royal blue and I'm dying (no pun intended) to try it!

 

[Guest]

They are beautiful! I especially like the photo of all the soaps lined up by color, very nicely done.

 

[green soap]

My blue colourant is in a blue powder form. I mixed it into the lye solution. I'll try and upload some pix and the ratio I mixed it in. I reckon the base oils does effect colour. I was using Olive, Palm, Coconut and Castor.

Olive, palm and coconut should not add much color at all. I have not used Castor yet, so perhaps someone will chime in on wether or not it adds a color.

This is fascinating - thank you. I have some chlorophyll that I was planning on using for colouring - I won't now. Thank you so much for sharing this information.

Now I need to go hunting for some indigo....

Very glad to be able to help! By the way, chlorophyll makes a very nice dye for fabrics, beautiful color and no rancidity problems there...

As far as the indigo what I did was get the little sampler size wich came in a tie dye kit. I got it from amazon.com since I was already ordering other stuff and the shipping was free. I did not want to buy a large amount before deciding if I liked it.

Another question on Indigo - Any problems with a strong color staining wash cloths or towels? I can't get over the royal blue and I'm dying (no pun intended) to try it!

Looking at the picture with the soap strips, two are blue and then one towards the center is a very dark green/brown. Both these soaps had a whole teaspoon of indigo crystals added to the lye water (per Kg of soap oils). That was my first time using indigo and I felt I used way too much. I did not intend to make a soap the color of new blue jeans, but they work so nicely used as inserts. Hey, I thought natural colorants were subtle.....LOL. I was concerned about lather discoloration, but it turns out the lather is white in both of them. The indigo had its own smell while curing, but the smell is all gone, now the soaps just smell like eucalyptus.

Oh, in case you wonder about the other colorant, I used 30% of my oil as beta carotene colored CO. That is for the really dark strip near the middle.

They are beautiful! I especially like the photo of all the soaps lined up by color, very nicely done.

thank you tikibarsoap!

 

[soapbuddy]

I use castor in every batch and it doesn't discolor in my recipe.

 

[musiccitysuds]

I think a lot of what some people think is DOS in chlorophyll soaps is actually oxidation. It's really hard to find a natural green colorant that doesn't oxidize over time. (Believe me, I've looked.) When I've used chlorophyll I've noticed that the soaps will turn brown where the chlorophyll is reacting with air, but don't get other signs of DOS like that funky smell. If you cut the soap, the parts that haven't yet reacted with oxygen are still green. The soaps (in my experience) are still safe to use, just not very pretty.

As far as natural green colorants, give moringa leaf powder a try. It's more of an army green, but it does seem to hold its color more than sage, wheat grass powder, or chlorophyll. HTH

 

[agriffin]

Nope. Mine is DOS. Disgusting nasty stank.

 

[carebear]

LOL. Amanda know DOS when she sees it!

 

[Mouse]

greensoap, thanks for sharing with us; indigo is something I am now looking forward to trying with high anticipation. Beautiful work!

 

[Lindy]

GreenSoap - new question for you. I found an indigo but it is being sold as black henna - is that the same thing?

TIA - your help is so appreciated...

 

[paillo]

that indigo blue is gorgeous! does it hold its color over time? and yes, thanks so much for sharing!

have you had any success with woad powder? i made some that was a lovely sky-blue color and is now curing to a dowdy light blue-gray color, yuckaroo, and i had such high hopes for it

 

[green soap]

GreenSoap - new question for you. I found an indigo but it is being sold as black henna - is that the same thing?

TIA - your help is so appreciated...

Sorry for the late response, I was out of the country away from my computer and soaps for a while.

I don't know if black henna is the same. I would try some in a small batch just because I like to experiment.

The indigo I used works very well. It is called pre-reduced indigo crystals, and the supplier is Dharma Trading company. They sell different dies for coloring fabric, that particular one also works very well for soap. I am sure there are other indigo supplier, and I would love to find others, that one is the one I used and it worked.