Shave Soap Yet Another Shave Soap Thread looking for Advice/opinions Please :)

[Kcryss]

Yes, this could certainly be done. Which fat do you recommend?

Ok, I checked every fat on soapcalc for stearic and palmitic and came up with the results shown below.
What I don't know is what the numbers actually represent. Is it a percent of the fat overall? At this point I am going to make the assumption that it's percent.
@DeeAnna correct me if I'm wrong.
Based on what I found, the best option would be to use Ucuuba butter if the end goal is to have absolutely no palmitic mixed in with the stearic. However, I'm cheap, so if I was doing it I would opt for the fully hydrogenated soybean and know that there is a small amount of palmitic mixed in with the resulting stearic.

I did find a source for the Ucuuba Butter and the cost is 36.25 for 1 lb. If the assumption is correct and the numbers here are percent, that would mean 4.96 oz of stearic from 1 lb of Ucuuba butter.

I found hydrogenated soybean on thesage 9.90 for 2 lbs. Using 1 lb to make soap and then break it down, would result in 15.68oz of stearic/palmitic combined, consisting of 12.16 oz stearic and 1.76 oz of palmitic.

Final conclusion
For a purist that doesn't care about the cost and wants straight stearic - Ucuuba butter
For a non-purist that doesn't mind a small amount of palmitic, hydrogenated soybean oil

Edit:
Oops, sorry @Johnez I forgot the Kokum butter
Kokum butter would be a good choice as well. You'd end up with close to pure stearic.
WSP sells Kokum for 13.66 lb.
That would amount to 7.36 oz. of stearic with a combined total of 8 oz. Stearic/palmitic.


The only question now that remains is how to best separate the stearic/palmitic from the soap.
Because I do only HP, I would think you could make a batch of soap with the fat of choice to saponification (yes, zap test needed here ). While it's still hot, add a solution of distilled water mixed with citric acid until the soap "breaks." Allow the resulting mixture to cool to around 150 F, then strain to remove the stearic/palmitic that should have solidified by then. Technically, if you can control the temperature while straining (this would be very very difficult to do IMO) you could allow to cool just below 156.7 and strain quickly to get just stearic? Don't know how feasible that would be as your tools would all need to be the same temperature.
Melting points:
Stearic - 156.7
Palmitic - 145.2
Oleic Acid - 61 F

I would think doing it right after it saponifies would make it faster/easier to get the stearic needed without any of the other fats.

 

[DeeAnna]

Wow! Well done, @Kcryss

 

[Johnez]

Ok, I checked every fat on soapcalc for stearic and palmitic and came up with the results shown below.
What I don't know is what the numbers actually represent. Is it a percent of the fat overall? At this point I am going to make the assumption that it's percent.
@DeeAnna correct me if I'm wrong.
Based on what I found, the best option would be to use Ucuuba butter if the end goal is to have absolutely no palmitic mixed in with the stearic. However, I'm cheap, so if I was doing it I would opt for the fully hydrogenated soybean and know that there is a small amount of palmitic mixed in with the resulting stearic.

I did find a source for the Ucuuba Butter and the cost is 36.25 for 1 lb. If the assumption is correct and the numbers here are percent, that would mean 4.96 oz of stearic from 1 lb of Ucuuba butter.

I found hydrogenated soybean on thesage 9.90 for 2 lbs. Using 1 lb to make soap and then break it down, would result in 15.68oz of stearic/palmitic combined, consisting of 12.16 oz stearic and 1.76 oz of palmitic.

Final conclusion
For a purist that doesn't care about the cost and wants straight stearic - Ucuuba butter
For a non-purist that doesn't mind a small amount of palmitic, hydrogenated soybean oil

View attachment 71052

Fully hydrogenated soybean oil is about as easy to find as pure stearic acid. :-/ I would have accepted that for my purposes in lieu of SA. I was told MMS had some, but they will not confirm the FA content.

 

[Kcryss]

Fully hydrogenated soybean oil is about as easy to find as pure stearic acid. :-/ I would have accepted that for my purposes in lieu of SA. I was told MMS had some, but they will not confirm the FA content.

I wondered that as well since it does not say. I wonder if partially hydrogenated soybean oil is solid at room temperature? Also, I wonder if soybean wax would have similar properties? I know it is used for candle making and easy obtainable.

 

[Kcryss]

Fully hydrogenated soybean oil is about as easy to find as pure stearic acid. :-/ I would have accepted that for my purposes in lieu of SA. I was told MMS had some, but they will not confirm the FA content.

I found the answer here!
Soy wax is fully hydrogenated soybean oil

 

[Kcryss]

1 last thought (for now ) and I will leave it alone for a bit.
If using Soy wax (Here is a source for pure soy wax) you wouldn't even need to break it down. Just use it in place of stearic.

Edit: Just found your thread on soy wax. lol, nice work @Johnez

 

[Johnez]

I found the answer here!
Soy wax is fully hydrogenated soybean oil

Alas...it is not so. @Mobjack Bay has discovered and fine tuned actual SAP numbers and the FAs of what soy wax composition is and unfortunately it is not fully hydrogenated. These threads describes her arduous journey:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/gw-415-soy-wax.78212/
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/i-need-help-with-soy-wax-even-after-a-lot-of-reading.76778/
If you dig deep into the COAs you'll find most are only partially hydrogenated. Iodine value as low as 1 is what we'd be looking for if fatty acid profile isn't available. Here's an interesting link:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...rtening_Oils_via_Hydrogenation_of_Soybean_Oil

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I’m happy to disclose that my pronouns are she and her

 

[Johnez]

I’m happy to disclose that my pronouns are she and her

Ooooops mah bad!

 

[Kcryss]

Alas...it is not so. @Mobjack Bay has discovered and fine tuned actual SAP numbers and the FAs of what soy wax composition is and unfortunately it is not fully hydrogenated. These threads describes her arduous journey:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/gw-415-soy-wax.78212/
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/i-need-help-with-soy-wax-even-after-a-lot-of-reading.76778/
If you dig deep into the COAs you'll find most are only partially hydrogenated. Iodine value as low as 1 is what we'd be looking for if fatty acid profile isn't available. Here's an interesting link:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...rtening_Oils_via_Hydrogenation_of_Soybean_Oil

After posting this earlier I did find that thread. Sadly, it is true that there doesn't seem to be a very valid path to "fully" hydrogenated soybean oil. I jumped down that rabbit hole for a while with nothing to show for it but blurry eyes. lol

Back to square 1 I guess. Only this time the options are kokum butter or Ucuuba butter. Make soap, break it down and filter out the good stuff.

 

[Johnez]

After posting this earlier I did find that thread. Sadly, it is true that there doesn't seem to be a very valid path to "fully" hydrogenated soybean oil. I jumped down that rabbit hole for a while with nothing to show for it but blurry eyes. lol

Back to square 1 I guess. Only this time the options are kokum butter or Ucuuba butter. Make soap, break it down and filter out the good stuff.

I feel you I have a mess of tabs still open and about 40 downloaded COAs, spec sheets, and SDS sheets to purge now lol.

 

[Kcryss]

When I compare your fatty acid profile to the FA profile for my preferred recipe, the lauric + myristic content in yours is about half that of mine and your oleic acid content is almost double mine. The total palmitic and stearic percentage is about the same. If your soap isn't lathering generously without a lot of work, raising the lauric and myristic content a bit can be helpful.

Total remake. Do you think maybe too much lauric/myristic?

 

[DeeAnna]

I'd give that a try!

 

[Kcryss]

I'd give that a try!

Making a small batch today to try it out.

 

[Johnez]

Total remake. Do you think maybe too much lauric/myristic?


View attachment 71294

I'm curious how you got such a nice split b/w stearic and palmitic without a significant amount of oleic. Most butters are quite heavy in oleic.

Also curious how your soap goes. How long do you wait in curing? I'm waiting four weeks as it seems proper....but man is it hard lol.

 

[Kcryss]

I'm curious how you got such a nice split b/w stearic and palmitic without a significant amount of oleic. Most butters are quite heavy in oleic.

Also curious how your soap goes. How long do you wait in curing? I'm waiting four weeks as it seems proper....but man is it hard lol.

They only butter I'm using is shea. The rest is Stearic, castor, CO, PKO, and Tallow. Sadly, I really needed to add more shea or maybe Mango or Cocoa butter after the cook. I did add lanolin, cetyl alcohol, and glycerin after the cook, but forgot the extra butter when I re-formulated. I used about 70% water to keep it fluid, so still waiting for it to dry out a bit.
I'm sure this one will take a full 4 weeks for cure, lol. I might try another small batch with some additional butter after the cook. Depends on the feel once it dries a bit and I give a tiny little pre-cure try.

 

[Kcryss]

Totally needs a little more time with all the liquid I added!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Totally needs a little more time with all the liquid I added!

This is just me, the Rebatch Queen, but I would have no problem rebatching that disk in the microwave to get "too much liquid" out.

Grate it up.
Toss it into a 1-cup Pyrex
Nuke for 1 minute.
Allow it to rest for 5 minutes.
Knead it with gloved hands until well mixed.
Shape it into a ball.
Press it into a mold lightly greased with mineral oil (or similar).
Turn it out and press the other side into the mold.

I recently did this with some leftovers from my kitchen sink soap dish.
It isn't as smooth as I like due to some of the little samples being too hard to melt down in one go. I could have used alcohol to help with that, but I like the confetti look! Lathers well too!

 

[Kcryss]

9 month cure update picture update:
Not bad, but I think it needs to be a bit creamier. I'm increasing the KOH to 70% from 60%, swapping shea for cocoa butter and dropping the castor. Increasing the glycerin after cook as well.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

It looks luxurious! Well done! How does it shave?