Hello, my two daughters and I have decided on soap making as a family fun> We have watched several videos but every time we add the lye to the oil it immediately form within seconds of mixing them together achieving an epic fail lol. Any ideas what is it that we re doing wrong? Thank you
why is it forming too quickly?
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Hello yes I use 10.7 oz of olive oil, 10.4 oz of coconut oil, 10.4 oz of vegetable oil. I combines those, then I do my lye separately: 4 oz of lye and 12 oz of water. i pour the lye into the water (in a stainless steal pot) mix together until the lye is completely dissolved and wait for the lye to be approximately 115-95 degrees. Then i poor the lye mixture into my oil mixture and use the stick blender to mix everything together and within 1-2 min its already blocking up into soap not even tracing, or having anytime to patiently add scent or dye.Hi @Batufatz - can you tell us the details of your recipe and process?
each of my oil is 33%, i use 33% vegetable oil, 33% olive oil and 33% coconut oil oilHi @Batufatz - can you tell us the details of your recipe and process?
and my sp is 5% and based on my oil weight, my water percentage based on the weight is 38% and i use 12 oz
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First off, please always pour the NaOH into water, not the other way around. There are good basic instructions and appropriate warnings here:
https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/cold-process-soap-lye-water-solution-516815
Did you mention the temperature of your oils/fats? Starting with clear melted fats at 90-95F, and the lye in a similar temperature range, will slow things down compared with working in the 95-115F range. Another suggestion is to cut way back on stick blending until you figure out how the recipe behaves. There’s nothing wrong with doing a little hand stirring. I have one recipe made with palm that comes to trace with just a few minutes of hand stirring and another based on lard and tallow that I need to stick blend on and off for 5 minutes if I want it to trace.
https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/cold-process-soap-lye-water-solution-516815
Did you mention the temperature of your oils/fats? Starting with clear melted fats at 90-95F, and the lye in a similar temperature range, will slow things down compared with working in the 95-115F range. Another suggestion is to cut way back on stick blending until you figure out how the recipe behaves. There’s nothing wrong with doing a little hand stirring. I have one recipe made with palm that comes to trace with just a few minutes of hand stirring and another based on lard and tallow that I need to stick blend on and off for 5 minutes if I want it to trace.
Also, what lye are you using? As mobjack said, pour the lye in to the water is the usual method as there is a reaction, and doing it the other way is pretty dangerous. So I'm wondering if there is a potential issue with the sort of lye you have
Reiterating what the others have said above^
But also the most likely cause is too much stick blending - we are all guilty of that when starting out.
But also the most likely cause is too much stick blending - we are all guilty of that when starting out.
Ladka
Well-Known Member
Except me - I started making soap with 50 % sheep tallow, about 30 % olive oil with the rest being coconut and castor oils, 1 kg of oils altogether. The tallow almost never has enough stick blending with me. The shortest time to trace was half an hour and the longest about two
Thank you i use sodium hydroxide and its a white and clear bottle with red lettering
My first two times i did not even heat up my oil on the stove for them to get to 90-95 degrees and the second time i heated them up to 100 degress and for all three batches it clumped up into soap in seconds and i use sodium hydroxide from the red crown brand.
sorry i also realized i put "the water into the the lye" typo lol. i meant the say lye into water.
sorry i also realized i put "the water into the the lye" typo lol. I meant the say lye into water.
Okay, it sounds like you’re doing fine with making the lye solution, but I do have one suggestion:
“my water percentage based on the weight is 38%”
It sounds like you’re using a soap calculator, which is great! You don’t need this much water to make this recipe. Results are more consistent when the water amount is calculated based on lye concentration rather than water as a percentage of oils. I suggest setting the lye concentration to 31-33%.
With respect to your recipe - Many prefer less coconut oil and use in the range of 15-25%. Coconut oil is nice when used directly on the skin, but in soap it ends up being very cleansing. Consider dropping it to 25% for now and add the difference to the oilve oil.
Now let’s think about how you are melting your fats.
“My first two times i did not even heat up my oil on the stove for them to get to 90-95 degrees and the second time i heated them up to 100 degrees”
This information about your process is helpful. You may be experiencing what we call “false trace” due to not getting the fats melted completely before you add the lye. Another reason for getting false trace is adding cool lye to the fats, but you’re using warm lye. You can read about false trace and see photos here:
https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...d-tricks/spot-prevent-false-trace/#more-58443In this example false trace is due to adding cool lye, but the effects on the consistency of the mixture in the mixing bowl would be similar even if the problem is due to the fats not being sufficiently melted.
If you are melting the fats completely, let us know. If not, here’s what I would do next:
1. Heat the shortening until it is completely melted and is clear. The melting point of solid shortening is usually around 120 F, but it’s not a problem to heat it as high as 140 F, or even 150 F for a short period of time. When it is melted and completely clear, reduce the heat to warm, or turn it off completely if the room temperature is warm.
2. Add the coconut oil and stir until it the fats are thoroughly mixed and completely clear again. If the coconut oil does not melt completely turn the heat on warm again until it’s melted and the mixture is clear.
3. Remove the mixture from stove and add the olive oil.
Depending on how much heat was needed to melt the shortening and the coconut oil, the addition of the olive oil may bring the temperature of the mixture very close to a reasonable working temperature. If it’s warm where you are and the ambient temperature is in the high 90s, that’s not a problem. There’s no need to try to chill the fats below ambient temperature after you melt them, just let them cool to whatever room temperature is if it’s higher than 95 F.
4. Now add the lye solution and hand stir for a minute to get a feel for how the mixture is behaving. At this point the mixture should not be seizing up at all.
5. Assuming all is going well, alternate stick blending in short burst of 2-3 seconds with hand stirring for 15 seconds or more until the desired stage of trace is reached.
There is a method called “heat transfer” to melt the fats with lye. It’s an advanced method that I’m ignoring for now.
An additional bit of advice is to research the fragrance oil (FO). Floral and spicy FOs are notorious for accelerating trace and some can cause seizing and ricing. You don’t want to have the FO ruin the batch.
And, one last note for now. Some hard fats, like lard and tallow can slow trace considerably. If you’re not opposed to using lard, it is the friendliest of all the hard fats, IMHO. As @Ladka mentioned above, tallow may also slow trace. The vegetable shortening you’re using is probably based on hydrogenated palm oil mixed with something like soybean oil. It should behave reasonably well and not take forever to reach trace following the process I outlined above.
If there are still any issues unresolved, please post your full recipe and process for further troubleshooting.
“my water percentage based on the weight is 38%”
It sounds like you’re using a soap calculator, which is great! You don’t need this much water to make this recipe. Results are more consistent when the water amount is calculated based on lye concentration rather than water as a percentage of oils. I suggest setting the lye concentration to 31-33%.
With respect to your recipe - Many prefer less coconut oil and use in the range of 15-25%. Coconut oil is nice when used directly on the skin, but in soap it ends up being very cleansing. Consider dropping it to 25% for now and add the difference to the oilve oil.
Now let’s think about how you are melting your fats.
“My first two times i did not even heat up my oil on the stove for them to get to 90-95 degrees and the second time i heated them up to 100 degrees”
This information about your process is helpful. You may be experiencing what we call “false trace” due to not getting the fats melted completely before you add the lye. Another reason for getting false trace is adding cool lye to the fats, but you’re using warm lye. You can read about false trace and see photos here:
https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...d-tricks/spot-prevent-false-trace/#more-58443In this example false trace is due to adding cool lye, but the effects on the consistency of the mixture in the mixing bowl would be similar even if the problem is due to the fats not being sufficiently melted.
If you are melting the fats completely, let us know. If not, here’s what I would do next:
1. Heat the shortening until it is completely melted and is clear. The melting point of solid shortening is usually around 120 F, but it’s not a problem to heat it as high as 140 F, or even 150 F for a short period of time. When it is melted and completely clear, reduce the heat to warm, or turn it off completely if the room temperature is warm.
2. Add the coconut oil and stir until it the fats are thoroughly mixed and completely clear again. If the coconut oil does not melt completely turn the heat on warm again until it’s melted and the mixture is clear.
3. Remove the mixture from stove and add the olive oil.
Depending on how much heat was needed to melt the shortening and the coconut oil, the addition of the olive oil may bring the temperature of the mixture very close to a reasonable working temperature. If it’s warm where you are and the ambient temperature is in the high 90s, that’s not a problem. There’s no need to try to chill the fats below ambient temperature after you melt them, just let them cool to whatever room temperature is if it’s higher than 95 F.
4. Now add the lye solution and hand stir for a minute to get a feel for how the mixture is behaving. At this point the mixture should not be seizing up at all.
5. Assuming all is going well, alternate stick blending in short burst of 2-3 seconds with hand stirring for 15 seconds or more until the desired stage of trace is reached.
There is a method called “heat transfer” to melt the fats with lye. It’s an advanced method that I’m ignoring for now.
An additional bit of advice is to research the fragrance oil (FO). Floral and spicy FOs are notorious for accelerating trace and some can cause seizing and ricing. You don’t want to have the FO ruin the batch.
And, one last note for now. Some hard fats, like lard and tallow can slow trace considerably. If you’re not opposed to using lard, it is the friendliest of all the hard fats, IMHO. As @Ladka mentioned above, tallow may also slow trace. The vegetable shortening you’re using is probably based on hydrogenated palm oil mixed with something like soybean oil. It should behave reasonably well and not take forever to reach trace following the process I outlined above.
If there are still any issues unresolved, please post your full recipe and process for further troubleshooting.
Omg than
Omg thank you so much !! amazing help my daughters and I finally made good soap using your suggestions. awesome help!!
Too warm lye speeds up the trace.
Mixing too long will too.
You will have to post the pictures of your family's soap! Congrats.
It sounds like your last attempt was successful but I'll weigh in also. When I first started, I turned on my stick blender and it just stayed on until the batter got to the consistency of pudding -- which did not take long at all. Now I use the blender mostly as a spoon with just a few 3-second bursts of the blender. I feel more in control of the trace. Because I like to make designs, I will stir until emulsion which is even thinner than thin trace -- and that took a year to master.
I'm not sure if you've watched soap making on You Tube (if you haven't started, don't start, it's an endless rabbit hole!). Those soapers are often sellers and make large batches which can withstand more aggressive stick blending. I'm a hobbyist and make one-two loaves at a time.
I don't know how old your children are. Even when my sons were teens and were all arms and legs I was nervous soaping around them -- they were like bulls in a china shop. I also lock the cat out of my soaping room. Lye can really burn and accidents happen. I'm not judging, just sayin'. Melt and pour soap is a great kid activity and I'm still looking at Basti's Adventures in Soap (2023) .
Good luck and welcome to the forum!
It sounds like your last attempt was successful but I'll weigh in also. When I first started, I turned on my stick blender and it just stayed on until the batter got to the consistency of pudding -- which did not take long at all. Now I use the blender mostly as a spoon with just a few 3-second bursts of the blender. I feel more in control of the trace. Because I like to make designs, I will stir until emulsion which is even thinner than thin trace -- and that took a year to master.
I'm not sure if you've watched soap making on You Tube (if you haven't started, don't start, it's an endless rabbit hole!). Those soapers are often sellers and make large batches which can withstand more aggressive stick blending. I'm a hobbyist and make one-two loaves at a time.
I don't know how old your children are. Even when my sons were teens and were all arms and legs I was nervous soaping around them -- they were like bulls in a china shop. I also lock the cat out of my soaping room. Lye can really burn and accidents happen. I'm not judging, just sayin'. Melt and pour soap is a great kid activity and I'm still looking at Basti's Adventures in Soap (2023) .
Good luck and welcome to the forum!
Thank you, the girls are 15 and 10. W wear protective gear and take great care working with lye. Yes, i do see time is needed to really understand it. I appreciate all the great info you guys give on the forum. Thanks again.
Congratulations! 
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