Why does bar soap make my skin feel terrible in comparison to liquid?

[TheGecko]

If there is any building or remodeling going on around you, it can be worth asking them if you can pick through their scrap pile. Sometimes they pull out whole walls and throw the 2x4s into the trash because it isn't worth their time to pull out the nails. In the past, my husband has gathered some very usable wood that way - not as perfect as what he'd buy if he were building for a customer, mind you, but sufficient for the small personal project he wanted to do.

We have a company a few blocks over that build custom crates for shipping equipment that has an ongoing scrap pile. It used to be that you could get some half sheets of plywood or OSB, but even they have become very careful. They had just put a new batch on Tuesday, but nothing over 8" wide and someone must have been using an old blade as the edges were really, really rough. When I came home from work last night, most of it was gone.

I had passed a construction site on Saturday...new apartments. One way in, guard at the gate and razor wire on the top of the fencing.

 

[AxtFarm]

I saw the post earlier about all the washing - I bought this on amazon and it's saved my sanity. It's great for the Amazon 42 oz loaf molds and great in general bc its easy to hold and pour from. I plunk it on my scale and measure my oils right into it.

You measuring everything into it and then microwave it? I have been heating everything on the stove.

 

[GemstonePony]

You measuring everything into it and then microwave it? I have been heating everything on the stove.

I seriously love polypropylene, I have sets of pitchers and beakers in different sizes that I got off Amazon. I can stick them in the microwave to just melt things, and I also put them in a hot water bath for lotions and stuff. Plus, they come in so handy for subdividing batter, and are impervious to NaOH and FOs.
Edited to add: good silicone spatulas are the other soaping/crafting staple. I don't recommend crossing between food/non-food use for any silicone entities, particularly if you use any sort of fragrance (essential oil or fragrance oil).

 

[AAShillito]

You measuring everything into it and then microwave it? I have been heating everything on the stove.

Yes. So far no issues with my soaping . It's just so hot here I can't stand heating up my kitchen. In the winter stovetop is fine

 

[AAShillito]

I seriously love polypropylene, I have sets of pitchers and beakers in different sizes that I got off Amazon. I can stick them in the microwave to just melt things, and I also put them in a hot water bath for lotions and stuff. Plus, they come in so handy for subdividing batter, and are impervious to NaOH and FOs.
Edited to add: good silicone spatulas are the other soaping/crafting staple. I don't recommend crossing between food/non-food use for any silicone entities, particularly if you use any sort of fragrance (essential oil or fragrance oil).

Yes when I was at ikea I got 4 spatulas for 3 bucks. They're all the same color and look nothing like my foofy Pioneer Woman spatulas

 

[AliOop]

I also measure all my hard oils into one container, melt them in the microwave, then measure the soft oils into the same container. I only melt on the stove if I plan to hot process the soap on the stove.

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

Tallow + Sodium Hydroxide = Sodium Tallowate
Palm Oil + Sodium Hydroxide = Sodium Palmate
Coconut Oil + Sodium Hydroxide = Sodium Cocoate
Palm Kernel Oil + Sodium Hydroxide = Sodium Palm Kernelate

I'm thinking of just getting a couple of heavy duty tarps, doubling them, and stapling it to the walls and ceiling. Won't be as warm or cool as an insulated wall, but we'd still be able to do our thing until prices fall...hopefully next spring.

Thx Gecko. appreciate it.

 

[TheGecko]

You measuring everything into it and then microwave it? I have been heating everything on the stove.

I think it's a matter of personal preference. I started out using the microwave, but then I started making lotion bars with beeswax and cocoa butter (and other ingredients) and found that the wax and butters melted better and quicker on the stove than in a microwave. Shortly thereafter, I started Master Batching and using the stove to melt my hard oils was so much more convenient and less time consuming. But I still use the microwave to heat my MB'd oils, because it is much quicker as the hard oils have not fully solidified.

 

[Susie]

Why do you have better luck commercial body washes and liquid soaps than bar soap? Probably because they are liquid detergents with added ingredients. To be honest, I've never made Liquid Soap, but I know that the artisan variety is made is KOH instead of NaOH, it is made with the same kind of ingredients as True Soap, you have to cook the ingredients like with HP, it needs to saponify to a paste and then it is liquified with water and glycerin. And I think you might need a preservative.

No need to cook liquid soap paste. I find it as easy as bar soap to make. We have lots of threads over on the Liquid and Cream Soap Forum to help.

I'm almost 60 and for the majority of my life I have suffered from dry skin. Face Moisturizer, Body Lotion, Hand Lotion...I'd go through bottles of that stuff every month. I haven't used body lotion since my first bar went into the bathroom two years ago. I still use a face moisturizer, but a bottle with last me three months and it's light and oil free. And I still use hand lotion, but I'm also a diabetic and I need it when I'm out and about use 'public' soap.

Same here. But if you venture into liquid soap making, be aware that it is not a good body wash option. Had to switch back to bar soap for bathing as I dried out using liquid soap.

Reading through some of your other posts...ye local "Dollar" store has been my best friend, along with Amazon. All of my mixing bowls/cups come from the $$$ Store along with spatulas, whisks, measuring spoons, wax and parchment papers, dish pans for larger batches, storage containers for salts, beeswax, butters, TD, Kaolin Clay, etc. May I recommend a pastry cutter to help you clean off your molds?

Yes to all of this! Also, go look at local thrift stores for stick blenders and crock pots. Crock pots are handy to melt solid oils when you have lots of distractions. Just set it on low if you have to walk away.

When I first started out everything fit in a rectangle laundry basket, then it was two. Instead of buy a third to lug around, I bought a nice rolling kitchen island and a shelf above it for colorants and scents. Everything fit perfectly in it and it was lovely. Hubby even bought me a shelfing unit in the garage and commercial size trays so I would quit using the cookie sheets and washer/dryer for curing. Then I bought wall hanging 'pantry' and it's where I store all my packaged soaps and scents (the colorants took over the shelf).

I use a rolling catering style cart for all of my supplies and equipment, but your rolling kitchen island sounds much better! Can you post pics of the rolling kitchen island?

 

[TheGecko]

I use a rolling catering style cart for all of my supplies and equipment, but your rolling kitchen island sounds much better! Can you post pics of the rolling kitchen island?

I paid around $200 for it at WalMart. They have something similar, but without the shelves on the end.

I had been making soap for about three months when I bought it. It sits against the wall, next to a plug in. I have a Command Hook off to the right side that holds my apron and stick blender. The drawer on the left held implements...measuring spoons, spatulas, whisks, digital thermometer; the other drawer held colorants and small bottles of FO/EO.

The inside holds a LOT. Where the open door on the above is, you will find four 'shoebox' size boxes for Cocoa and Shea Butters and Coconut and Palm Oils. Under them are 4-3L bottles of Olive Oil and 2 gals of Distilled Water. The side shelves would hold bottles of Sodium Hydroxide, Castor Oil, Sodium Lactate, dispersed TD, larger bottles of FOs/EOs, etc. The other side of the cabinet I would have mixing bowls, measuring/mixing cups, assorted molds, scale, additives, etc.

There is a towel bar on the left...I hang spray bottles of IPA, white vinegar and dollar store 'orange' cleaner. I also have a large plastic cutting board on top with a juice trough and it sits on a non-stick pad.

Things have changed a bit since I originally bought it. I have a shelf above that holds all my colorants and I have a tiered shelf inside the garage door for all my FOs/EOs. I Master Batch my Oils/Butters in 1 gal buckets for GMS and 5 gal for Regular and ready-to-us Lye Solution in gal jugs these days so I buy in larger quantities and store them in my garage, but I still keep small quantities in the cart (I use them first when MBing and refill) for when I'm testing.

Probably next year I'll move my soap making out to the garage. When that happens, my Kitchen Aid will get moved over to the cart along with some other large items that I'm constantly having to drag in from the cabinet in the garage (pressure cooker, soup pot, pasta maker, crock pot, large mixing bowls).

 

[AAShillito]

AxtFarm how are your soaps coming along?

 

[AxtFarm]

AxtFarm how are your soaps coming along?

Just waiting for my 4-6 weeks to be up so I can start testing my soap and then I will start passing out samples to my testers...except my salt bars which I guess will get tested around Christmas.

Made our first batch of goat milk lotion this weekend that we start giving out to our testers Monday. It was easy to make, no waiting time for curing, and good margins.

 

[Quanta]

Just waiting for my 4-6 weeks to be up so I can start testing my soap and then I will start passing out samples to my testers...except my salt bars which I guess will get tested around Christmas.

Made our first batch of goat milk lotion this weekend that we start giving out to our testers Monday. It was easy to make, no waiting time for curing, and good margins.

Just in case you don't already know, milk in lotion can be pretty tricky to preserve properly. So if you're going to be selling it you will want to get it lab tested to make sure your preservatives can handle the milk. Keep an eye out for color/scent changes, and for little bubbles forming in the bottles.

 

[AxtFarm]

Just in case you don't already know, milk in lotion can be pretty tricky to preserve properly. So if you're going to be selling it you will want to get it lab tested to make sure your preservatives can handle the milk. Keep an eye out for color/scent changes, and for little bubbles forming in the bottles.

We got a recipe from someone who has made and sold goat milk lotion for a long time. I asked her about shelf life and she said even after months she never had any issues. I've researched it and read that it can have a short shelf life and it's pretty much impossible to preserve for long periods of time. We will keep an eye on it and see how long it's good for. Using Stearic acid and phenonip.

 

[Quanta]

We got a recipe from someone who has made and sold goat milk lotion for a long time. I asked her about shelf life and she said even after months she never had any issues. I've researched it and read that it can have a short shelf life and it's pretty much impossible to preserve for long periods of time. We will keep an eye on it and see how long it's good for. Using Stearic acid and phenonip.

Phenonip is what I would use. You can't beat parabens for efficacy and safety, especially for tricky formulas like this one. Excellent choice.

If your recipe doesn't already have it, you'll want to add Disodium EDTA to boost the preservatives. It's not a preservative in itself, but it helps your preservatives work better which may increase your shelf life some. That's why you commonly see it in lotions.

Stearic acid is a thickener/stabilizer, not a preservative. Don't rely on it to preserve anything by itself.

 

[AxtFarm]

Phenonip is what I would use. You can't beat parabens for efficacy and safety, especially for tricky formulas like this one. Excellent choice.

If your recipe doesn't already have it, you'll want to add Disodium EDTA to boost the preservatives. It's not a preservative in itself, but it helps your preservatives work better which may increase your shelf life some. That's why you commonly see it in lotions.

Stearic acid is a thickener/stabilizer, not a preservative. Don't rely on it to preserve anything by itself.

About stearic acid..I wasn't aware, I used .4 oz more than recipe called for trying to boost preservatives a little and the lotion is really thick so maybe that's why.

I will look into Disodium EDTA. My recipe makes 48oz lotion how much should I use? I used 14 grams phenonip.

 

[AxtFarm]

Phenonip is what I would use. You can't beat parabens for efficacy and safety, especially for tricky formulas like this one. Excellent choice.

If your recipe doesn't already have it, you'll want to add Disodium EDTA to boost the preservatives. It's not a preservative in itself, but it helps your preservatives work better which may increase your shelf life some. That's why you commonly see it in lotions.

I see in another recipe they use Disodium EDTA at a 0.2% ratio which means for my 48oz recipe I would be using 3 grams of Disodium EDTA. I'm using Phenonip at 1% which is the recommended max usage. I see a separate recipe that uses rosemary antioxidant as a preservative.

Can I use Phenonip at 1% (14grams)(recommended 1% max), Rosemary antioxidant at .075% (1 gram)(recommended .15% max), and Disodium EDTA at 0.2% (3 grams) to make a more complete preservative system while still being safe?

I want to make a good, safe product and if I am going to pay $500 to get it lab tested I need to get it right before sending it in.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...I see a separate recipe that uses rosemary antioxidant as a preservative. ..."

To avoid confusion, most people on this forum use "preservative" to mean ingredients that specifically kill microorganisms. This would include ingredients such as phenonip or liquid germall plus, but not antioxidants such as ROE or chelators like EDTA. Crafter's Choice also draws a distinction between an antioxidant and a preservative --

"...Rosemary Oleoresin Extract is a natural anti-oxidant....This is not a preservative and will not prevent mold, yeast and/or fungal growth...." Crafter

I'm not sure why Mountain Rose is mixing the two concepts -- it's confusing.

I'm curious about the recipe you mentioned. I don't see the recipe in your link -- Rosemary Antioxidant

 

[Quanta]

I see in another recipe they use Disodium EDTA at a 0.2% ratio which means for my 48oz recipe I would be using 3 grams of Disodium EDTA. I'm using Phenonip at 1% which is the recommended max usage. I see separate recipe that they use rosemary antioxidant as a preservative at 1.2%.

Can I use Phenonip at 1% (14grams), Rosemary antioxidant at 1% (14 grams), and Disodium EDTA at 0.2% (3 grams) to make a more complete preservative system while still being safe?

I want to make a good, safe product and if I am going to pay $500 to get it lab tested I need to get it right before sending it in.

Ditto what @DeeAnna said about ROE not being an antimicrobial preservative. It "preserves" against rancidity, that is all. If you use oils and butters that are naturally resistant to rancidity, you won't even need to worry about adding it at all.

That being said...

0.2% sounds about right for the EDTA, but 1.2% is really an awful lot of ROE. In fact, I'm fairly certain that 1.2% has to be a typo. Even moving the decimal over, 0.12% is still a bit too much. You'll need to look at the manufacturer's or vendor's data to see how much carnosic acid is in it to figure out exactly how much to use, but it should be more like 0.05%. If you put too much, it acts as a pro-oxidant, which is the opposite of what you want. Not to mention the very strong odor, at 1.2% that would be quite noticeable.

What I recommend, is you add the ROE only to the oils/butters that need it as soon as you get them. Some oils are resistant to rancidity on their own, so I wouldn't bother adding it to these. Don't add more when you make the lotion, but be sure to put it in the list of ingredients if you do put it in the oils.

For more information, read @DeeAnna's page on it here:
https://classicbells.com/soap/ROE.asp

 

[AxtFarm]

"...I see a separate recipe that uses rosemary antioxidant as a preservative. ..."

To avoid confusion, most people on this forum use "preservative" to mean ingredients that specifically kill microorganisms. This would include ingredients such as phenonip or liquid germall plus, but not antioxidants such as ROE or chelators like EDTA. Crafter's Choice also draws a distinction between an antioxidant and a preservative --

"...Rosemary Oleoresin Extract is a natural anti-oxidant....This is not a preservative and will not prevent mold, yeast and/or fungal growth...." Crafter

I'm not sure why Mountain Rose is mixing the two concepts -- it's confusing.

I'm curious about the recipe you mentioned. I don't see the recipe in your link -- Rosemary Antioxidant

I saw the rosemary in this recipe (which im skeptical of)

I like what I'm seeing from this recipe and think using their preservative system would be good. The only thing that throws me is their use of goat milk powder and does it only pass the USP 51 test because they are using powder rather than raw goat milk? And these extra ingredients need certain PH so the recipe wants a 4.5ph which just makes it more complicated and costly.

Could I use Phenopin at 1% and Germaben II at 1%? They both seem to be good against gram-positive and gram-negative, but have different ingredients.