Thanks Earlene and Szaza. That form is perfect for what I’m doing. Thanks for passing it along. I have been keeping notes in my “lab” notebook, but I sometimes forget to write down a key detail.
What’s the madder with my madder?
- Thread starter Mobjack Bay
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Thanks Earlene and Szaza. That form is perfect for what I’m doing. Thanks for passing it along. I have been keeping notes in my “lab” notebook, but I sometimes forget to write down a key detail.
Totally impressed
Thinking about it.
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I have at last made some more Lavender and Tussah Silk soap with madder (Rubria Tinctorum). This is using the "tea" method - just mix the powder with boiling water, leave to cool and sieve out. Some pics below:
The madder tea.
After addition of tussah silk and lye.
Mixed just prior to pouring.
In the mould before bunging in the oven to be CPOPed. Wow is that pink!
Out of the oven the following day. Much lighter colour.
Two little nub ends that date from when I was putting the recipes together, so about 2 years old. These have been kept in a dark place. On the left madder root added at trace. On the right, madder root added to the lye (with lavender buds aka mouse poo). I later stopped adding to the lye in preference to making the tea in advance because I didn't feel comfortable doing the sieving process with caustic lye. Much safer to do beforehand, and I didn't feel it made much, if any difference to the colour using the tea method.
General comments. I think it is a good pink and on the whole, lasts well, and is very easy, no steeping for days or weeks or boiling on stoves. I have to agree with an earlier comment that the tea method does bring out a hint of brown, and the pink you get I would describe as dusky rather than bright. It doesn't seem to fade or go brown long term, at least not if it is kept in the dark. I am actually using one of these soaps from a batch I made about 6 months ago. The colour does seem to fade a bit and get a little bit "muddy" towards the end of its life whilst in use, I'm now about three quarters of the way through it. But it is still visibly pink, if not the pure pink of an artificial colourant. I guess if you want to use natural colourants you have to be prepared to accept that they can be a bit variable. I still prefer using them to using artificial colourants and fragrance oils. If I want artificial, bright soap I can buy it from Tesco at a fraction of the price, but I am not into colours and swirls, so that's just me. Hope this is helpful.
The madder tea.
After addition of tussah silk and lye.
Mixed just prior to pouring.
In the mould before bunging in the oven to be CPOPed. Wow is that pink!
Out of the oven the following day. Much lighter colour.
Two little nub ends that date from when I was putting the recipes together, so about 2 years old. These have been kept in a dark place. On the left madder root added at trace. On the right, madder root added to the lye (with lavender buds aka mouse poo). I later stopped adding to the lye in preference to making the tea in advance because I didn't feel comfortable doing the sieving process with caustic lye. Much safer to do beforehand, and I didn't feel it made much, if any difference to the colour using the tea method.
General comments. I think it is a good pink and on the whole, lasts well, and is very easy, no steeping for days or weeks or boiling on stoves. I have to agree with an earlier comment that the tea method does bring out a hint of brown, and the pink you get I would describe as dusky rather than bright. It doesn't seem to fade or go brown long term, at least not if it is kept in the dark. I am actually using one of these soaps from a batch I made about 6 months ago. The colour does seem to fade a bit and get a little bit "muddy" towards the end of its life whilst in use, I'm now about three quarters of the way through it. But it is still visibly pink, if not the pure pink of an artificial colourant. I guess if you want to use natural colourants you have to be prepared to accept that they can be a bit variable. I still prefer using them to using artificial colourants and fragrance oils. If I want artificial, bright soap I can buy it from Tesco at a fraction of the price, but I am not into colours and swirls, so that's just me. Hope this is helpful.
Julia, Thank you for all of your help and inspiration! I definitely enjoy using the natural colorants. Every soap making session turns out to be a bit of an experiment
and I like the softer colors and natural look of the soaps. I’m super happy with the warmer pink I achieved with your tea method and the slightly brighter pink I achieved with the tincture, plus, they look nice together. It’s also great to hear that the color is holding up for you. 
I finally had a chance to read the article linked below, which is about using indigo to produce a light pink. I haven’t done a full blown indigo oil infusion, so I don’t know if my indigo will produce pink that way, but it does release a purplish/magenta color in 91% IPA. It seems worth a try. Making an oil infusion is easier than working with a tincture, although a tincture can be concentrated to some degree.
https://kapiamera.blog/2015/12/17/sweet-heart-soap/
https://kapiamera.blog/2015/12/17/sweet-heart-soap/
Here’s another madder test run. For this soap I used 1 TBS madder in the lye water, which produced a small volcano. (1 TBS ppo produced the color intensity in the bottom layer) It’s then messy to strain the lye. The resulting color is intense, so it may be worth the trouble to get the color. This soap is a palm based recipe. I was also practicing using shapers to sculpt the layers for a gradient, mixing as I went up with uncolored batter from a second batch. The soap has to be at higher trace for sculpting and one must take care not to end up with bubbles in the soap . I’m planing to make a comparison soap with madder tincture soonish.
. I’m planing to make a comparison soap with madder tincture soonish.
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I made a batch last week using madder root. Should've read this thread first!
I added my madder root to a tiny bowl of traced oil to disperse it. At first I thought I added too much ( about a tablespoon) because it turned blue! Now I know it's a pH thing.
I used it anyway, thinking it would stay blue, and was pleasantly surprised when it turned pink the next day! Wished I used more can't wait to see if it's scratchy or not. I hope not.
I added my madder root to a tiny bowl of traced oil to disperse it. At first I thought I added too much ( about a tablespoon) because it turned blue! Now I know it's a pH thing.
I used it anyway, thinking it would stay blue, and was pleasantly surprised when it turned pink the next day! Wished I used more
can't wait to see if it's scratchy or not. I hope not.Attachments
Dawni
Well-Known Member
@Mobjack Bay I like that second from the bottom shade.
@Rahmi that's really pretty!
You both have reminded me that I should use my madder root infusion soon....
@Rahmi that's really pretty!
You both have reminded me that I should use my madder root infusion soon....
I made a batch last week using madder root. Should've read this thread first!
I added my madder root to a tiny bowl of traced oil to disperse it. At first I thought I added too much ( about a tablespoon) because it turned blue! Now I know it's a pH thing.
I used it anyway, thinking it would stay blue, and was pleasantly surprised when it turned pink the next day! Wished I used more
That is super pretty soap Rahmi! Do you know which kind of madder you have (the INCI?). Based on the photo, the pink color you got is very pure (no brown/warm tones) and is more like what I can get when I make a tincture using alcohol. I worry about the scratchiness of madder powder which is why I have been exploring ways to extract the color rather than adding the powder to the batter.
That’s about where I think I would start. That layer is 2/3 of the madder batter and 1/3 of the un-colored batter and the next one up is the reverse proportions. The top layer does have a little bit of the madder batter mixed in from what I scraped out of the other pitchers.
Thanks! I don't know the exact name, but I got it from a natural dye maker in Gujarat, so I'm guessing it would just be the indian madder? I could ask them if you like.
I guess I never got back to this thread until today. If you do find out what kind of madder you have, please let us know. Your pink looks more pink than rose, which is mostly what I get with Rubia tinctorum, except when I infuse it into isopropyl alcohol.
A new madder experiment and an update on earlier madder soaps:
First, here’s a photo with two soaps discussed above and a new one in the middle.
The soap on the left was made on June 20, so about 3 months ago. The second layer down is colored with madder colorant that was concentrated from an isopropyl alcohol and water infusion. It looks like all of the madder colors have faded quite a bit. The original photo is here. The bottom layer is rose clay. The way I colored the other layers is described above. The soap on the right was made on July 14th, so about 2 months ago. The original photo is in post #69. For that batch, I added the madder to half of the water and then added the lye to the same pitcher. I also made a batch of uncolored batter and mixed portions to get the color gradient. For this one, the pinks now look a bit brighter, or it could be the lighting. The middle soap is a new one I made this past weekend.
For the latest batch, I mixed household ammonia with madder root powder and let it sit for about two months. I shook the jar occasionally, let the powder fully settle and decanted the ammonia. With a little help from @DeeAnna and her Soapy Stuff web resource on using ammonia to make soap, I used the madder “dyed” ammonia as a full water replacement in my recipe and adjusted my NaOH accordingly. I also used a new small 4-bar mold and you can see that I ended up with my first partial gel. The color shade is good, if a bit intense, so I expect that I can get a nice pink by using the ammonia “dye” as a split, independent of the masterbatched lye water. I still need to think about whether I should add the lye water to the oils first and then the ammonia, or the other way around. I definitely do not want to release a big cloud of ammonia gas! Given how noxious ammonia fumes are, I do not recommend this technique for beginners. I will update as the soap cures.
First, here’s a photo with two soaps discussed above and a new one in the middle.
The soap on the left was made on June 20, so about 3 months ago. The second layer down is colored with madder colorant that was concentrated from an isopropyl alcohol and water infusion. It looks like all of the madder colors have faded quite a bit
. The original photo is here. The bottom layer is rose clay. The way I colored the other layers is described above. The soap on the right was made on July 14th, so about 2 months ago. The original photo is in post #69. For that batch, I added the madder to half of the water and then added the lye to the same pitcher. I also made a batch of uncolored batter and mixed portions to get the color gradient. For this one, the pinks now look a bit brighter, or it could be the lighting. The middle soap is a new one I made this past weekend.For the latest batch, I mixed household ammonia with madder root powder and let it sit for about two months. I shook the jar occasionally, let the powder fully settle and decanted the ammonia. With a little help from @DeeAnna and her Soapy Stuff web resource on using ammonia to make soap, I used the madder “dyed” ammonia as a full water replacement in my recipe and adjusted my NaOH accordingly. I also used a new small 4-bar mold and you can see that I ended up with my first partial gel. The color shade is good, if a bit intense, so I expect that I can get a nice pink by using the ammonia “dye” as a split, independent of the masterbatched lye water. I still need to think about whether I should add the lye water to the oils first and then the ammonia, or the other way around. I definitely do not want to release a big cloud of ammonia gas! Given how noxious ammonia fumes are, I do not recommend this technique for beginners. I will update as the soap cures.
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Mobjack, thank you so much for posting updated pictures of your soaps, and for being so thorough with the details of your experiments. This is one of the most interesting threads I've ever read on this site - fantastic!
I’m really happy to hear that you’re finding the information useful
. If you decide to try madder, I hope you will let us know how it goes!
penelopejane
Well-Known Member
Follow this link for my results using indigo and annatto:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/the-indigo-and-jagua-blues.75531/#post-789929
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/the-indigo-and-jagua-blues.75531/#post-789929
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