Water TD vs Oil TD observation

[jblaney]

I just wanted to pass on something I observed recently.

I ordered the Matte White Pigment Powder for Water and the Matte White Pigment Powder for Oil from WSP. It's just Titanium dioxide that dissolves in either water or oil. I could not decide which one was better, so I got them both and tested them in one soap. I tested them with Dragon's blood FO at 5% PPO. I split the oil in half of a one pound batch.

In half the oil I put 1/2 tsp of the Oil TD and stick blended it for one minute before adding the lye.

In the other half of the oils I mixed 1/2 tsp of Water TD in 1/2 tsp of water and poured it into my oils and stick blended it before I added my lye.

I poured a layer of the each soap with a plain layer with nothing in it in the middle. I wanted to see how they reacted to the soap and the surrounding soap.

I must say they look completely different. The Water TD turned a very pale butterscotch color and the Oil TD turned a medium chocolate brown color. Kind of a milk chocolate color, but a little lighter.

I have noticed that the Oil TD side is bleeding brown into the middle of the soap, but the Water TD side is not bleeding one bit. It's only been 2 weeks, so it could bleed I guess.

I just thought it was something that could be beneficial to some one who wants to control the bleeding of discoloring soap. I know it will come in handy for me.

I also noticed the soap seems harder with the Water TD, but the Oil TD side still seems moist, even after 2 weeks.

 

[Crombie]

TD

Great post jblaney! I use WSP TD (matte pigment powder) for oil only. I have had the most luck by sifting it over the top of my melted oils and letting it sit for 15 minutes. Then stick blending. I have never once had glycerine rivers or white spots. I use it in just about all the soaps I make.

 

[jblaney]

I'm having issues with the water soluble TD now. I think it makes my soap brittle, so I have tried using the Oil TD, but keep getting specks no matter what I do. Has anyone had success with the Oil TD from WSP?

I sifted 1/2 tsp over my warm oils, let sit for 15 minutes and then stick blended for an entire minute. I got much less specks this way, but I want none. I do not get any with the water soluble TD.

Has someone found a better TD out there?

 

[seven]

thanks for sharing

i've only used the water kind. so far it's okay, it's just the overheating issue sometimes. esp when mixed with heater FOs/additives. other than that it's fine. i keep a glass already mixed with water, ready to use anytime i soap.

 

[cmzaha]

I only use oil TD, since I never had much success with water base td. I mix mine in a jar with a wisk attachment on a hand blender and strain through a fine mesh sifter, used for dusting in baking, and do not pour off the very bottom portion of the td. It just will not dissolve completely unless using micronized td. I never had success with no specks when adding straight to the oils. If I get lazy, and have run out of my batched td, I will sometimes get specks if I just mix some in oil and dump it in without straining. The little sifter I have came for Daiso Store. Do you have one near you? They are fun stores to find items we do not have in our stores. Most items are $1.50 each
Where did you get your DB Blaney?

 

[Soapsense]

I use the Oil only TD. I mix it in a container ahead of time. About enough for 5 batches of soap. I mix it with liquid glycerin. I have never had problems with white spots or specks.

 

[jblaney]

Seven-I think the water TD is easier to use, but my soap gets brittle eventually. I read that it has chemicals in it to make it water soluble and these chemicals may react with CP soap hence brittle soap. Not sure if it's true or not, but it's too unpredictable for me. Not sure if it contributes to overheating, but if you are getting glycerine rivers you may want to try discounting your water.

Cmzaha- I will try that method today. How much TD do you use? I was thinking 4 Tbs per cup oil. I have a fine mesh strainer, but not sure how fine it is. I thinks it's brilliant to just leave out the bits that won't dissolve. I do that when I use clay and it keeps the grittiness out, but I never thought of doing it for the TD. That's why I love this forum. Sometimes my brain just stops working and the simplest things I just never think of.

I don't know if I have a daiso store near me. I will take a look online.

I used Pure Fragrance Oils DB per your suggestion. I like it and it sticks, but it gets dark so I need to try to see what I can do with it. I will get to it eventually. So many FO's, so little time!

 

[cmzaha]

I use the Oil only TD. I mix it in a container ahead of time. About enough for 5 batches of soap. I mix it with liquid glycerin. I have never had problems with white spots or specks.

I am guessing you are using the water or oil soluble TD. Oil soluble TD will not dissolve in glycerin. The oil/water td will

 

[seven]

yes, sometimes i got glycerin rivers, but never brittleness.

 

[Obsidian]

I use water soluble TD and I never get spots or brittle soap. I mix 1/2 tsp TD with about a teaspoon of water roughly a hour before I need it so it gets good and saturated. If I'm using TD in the whole batch, I'll add it to the lye solution.

 

[cmzaha]

Seven-I think the water TD is easier to use, but my soap gets brittle eventually. I read that it has chemicals in it to make it water soluble and these chemicals may react with CP soap hence brittle soap. Not sure if it's true or not, but it's too unpredictable for me. Not sure if it contributes to overheating, but if you are getting glycerine rivers you may want to try discounting your water.

Cmzaha- I will try that method today. How much TD do you use? I was thinking 4 Tbs per cup oil. I have a fine mesh strainer, but not sure how fine it is. I thinks it's brilliant to just leave out the bits that won't dissolve. I do that when I use clay and it keeps the grittiness out, but I never thought of doing it for the TD. That's why I love this forum. Sometimes my brain just stops working and the simplest things I just never think of.

I don't know if I have a daiso store near me. I will take a look online.

I used Pure Fragrance Oils DB per your suggestion. I like it and it sticks, but it gets dark so I need to try to see what I can do with it. I will get to it eventually. So many FO's, so little time!

When I tried water td I got a lot of crackling, glycerin rivers and some brittleness so I went back to oil soluble a couple of yrs ago. My version of the DB you use does not get as dark as the one from Pure Fragrance Oil. Will send you a sniffy :roll: soooooonnnnnnn.....

 

[IrishLass]

I've always used the water soluble TD from Oregon Trails and have never had a problem with it that wasn't user-caused, i.e., by me either setting my oven temp too hot to encourage gel (crackles), or not mixing it well enough (white specks), or adding too much (chalkiness), etc... Things turn out well otherwise if I'm mindful of those things.

I mix my TD up in a small, glass, food-prep bowl either with a little bit of my batch water or some glycerin. To eliminate specks in my finished soap, I mix it nice and smooth with this handy tool before adding it into my batter: http://www.brambleberry.com/Mini-White-Plastic-Mixer-P4721.aspx It works great! No more specks!

For those that are getting brittle soap- how much TD are you using ppo? I like to keep my own max usage rate to no more than 1 teaspoon ppo of the dry TD (i.e. before dispersing in water or glycerin), because I've found that if I use it any higher than that, my soap starts feeling chalky. Happily, I've found though trial and error that I can get lovely white soaps by using only 1/2 to 3/4 teaspoon ppo.

IrishLass

 

[Crombie]

TD - Specks?

I have never had specks from my TD doing it the way you are doing it and with that exact product.

I'm having issues with the water soluble TD now. I think it makes my soap brittle, so I have tried using the Oil TD, but keep getting specks no matter what I do. Has anyone had success with the Oil TD from WSP?

I sifted 1/2 tsp over my warm oils, let sit for 15 minutes and then stick blended for an entire minute. I got much less specks this way, but I want none. I do not get any with the water soluble TD.

Has someone found a better TD out there?

 

[Soapsense]

I am guessing you are using the water or oil soluble TD. Oil soluble TD will not dissolve in glycerin. The oil/water td will

Oh Yes, sorry

 

[jblaney]

IrishLass - I'm only using 1 tsp PPO, but maybe sometimes when I'm making soap on the fly and want more, I may be adding a tiny bit more. That may be when the brittleness is happening, but it has happened with I'm using exactly 1 tsp PPO.

Crombie - I tried your method and it was much better, but I see some tiny speck when I plain the soap. I have some I prepped yesterday like Cmzaha suggested so I will use it today and report back in a few days. It looks really smooth like paint and I see no specks, so I think this method will work for me.

When I tried water td I got a lot of crackling, glycerin rivers and some brittleness so I went back to oil soluble a couple of yrs ago. My version of the DB you use does not get as dark as the one from Pure Fragrance Oil. Will send you a sniffy soooooonnnnnnn.....

If it's just as strong, but less dark, I would love to smell it. Thanks!