True or False?

[SoaperForLife]

"These good fats in goat's milk result in a pH level so close to the pH level of your own skin, it helps keep your skin's oils in balance."

Taken from a well-known and popular soap manufacturer.... true or false? What do you think?

 

[shunt2011]

Baloney! Milk in soap doesn't drop the ph anywhere close to the ph of our skin. It would no longer be soap. Are they using detergents then?

 

[dixiedragon]

Magical goat milk?

 

[Rune]

That is the worst I have read, ever!

I just googled the sentence, and found out which company who wrote that. I think it is fair to share the link. It is a commercial product available in stores all over America, so people should know that they are trying to mislead people.

They write more than what you quoted, and it is almost just as bad:

"Goat's milk, the main ingredient in our Zum Bars, is naturally ultra-moisturizing, naturally balanced for the skin, and naturally homogenized."

"The truth is, goat's milk is probably the absolute best mix of "good for you" and "good for nature." Unlike commercial soap, goat's milk soap contains capric, caprylic and capronic acids, and the naturally occurring triglycerides. Otherwise known as good fats."

Yes, Zum Bars from Indigo Wild. I were shocked to find out.

 

[amd]

I know exactly who says that... there's a lot of misleading information that they post about their soaps... such as only using essential oil in their soaps. Really? Sandalwood essential oil soap for only $6??? I've gotten their tangerine-orange soaps and it took me over a year before I got to use them. I would not expect orange essential oil to last for over a year, but there it was holding strong. But back to pH... yeah, it sounds good and people who don't know better want to believe it. Science says it's not possible though. They'll continue to do so until they get busted on it. Although just to poke the bear, I am tempted to send them a message asking "how is this possible" and see what I get for a response.

ETA: I did just run over to their website because Rune and I were posting at the same time. I was curious to see how their ingredients were listed because of the "main ingredient" comment. Here's the ingredients: saponified 100% food grade olive, coconut, palm & castor oils in a goat's milk base, with pure essential oils, and seaweed. [taken from their new GM seaweed bar]. So many things wrong with this ingredient list, I'd like to throw up thinking of all the time I've spent making sure that mine were correct. Their wording of "goat's milk base" leads me to believe this is a m&p situation, and they don't realize they are using detergents or don't want to acknowledge it. I know they say they CP soaps... but maybe not ALL of them??

 

[IrishLass]

A big fat load of hucksterism/bunkum! In other words, false, of course.

I also had a Google using the quote "These good fats in goat's milk result in a pH level so close to the pH level of your own skin, it helps keep your skin's oils in balance" and it seems to be quite the popular phrase- it's being used by many individual soap-makers all over the world (i.e., not just Zum). For example, I'm on an Indonesian site right now that makes their own organic goat milk soap, and they are using the same phrase in their write-up for their goat milk soap produced on their farm! The more and more search results I go through, the longer my list is growing of folks using either this exact phrase or a reworded version of it in their write-ups for their goat milk soap. Disgraceful!


IrishLass

 

[soapmaker]

Apart from the ph of the soap......goats milk is the "main ingredient" of our soaps? That would be "liquidy" soap wouldn't it?

 

[dixiedragon]

• "These good fats in goat's milk result in a pH level so close to the pH level of your own skin, it helps keep your skin's oils in balance."

I am thinking they get away with this because they don't specifically say the SOAP has a pH level close to human skin, I think what it is saying/inferring vaguely is that goat milk itself has a lower pH close to human skin. (Dr. Google tells me that goat milk has a pH of 7.5, while human skin has a pH of 5.5 so not really true.)

• Apart from the ph of the soap......goats milk is the "main ingredient" of our soaps? That would be "liquidy" soap wouldn't it?

If you define "main" as being "most important" vs "greatest quantity.

 

[amd]

Well... depends on how you soap. Lin and I had this conversation recently because she was questioning if my ingredient list should have Aloe Vera Juice as the main ingredient. For the way I soap, at a high water:lye ratio and my highest oil usage is only at 30% of total oils, yes, it is correct. So IF they make their GM soaps using cold process method, and are using a high water:lye ratio and a low 'highest oil usage %', then their soap would not be liquidy soap. [I am sorely tempted to say "it would be like mine, a perfectly balanced soap that is not only wonderful to use, but will also cure ebola!" but for the sake of newbies or those who take me too seriously, I will leave it here, openly disclosed as a joke.]

Edited to correct my first sentence, bad grammar instance.

 

[soapmaker]

I wouldn't take up for them to that degree.

 

[earlene]

That is the worst I have read, ever!

I just googled the sentence, and found out which company who wrote that. I think it is fair to share the link. It is a commercial product available in stores all over America, so people should know that they are trying to mislead people.

They write more than what you quoted, and it is almost just as bad:

"Goat's milk, the main ingredient in our Zum Bars, is naturally ultra-moisturizing, naturally balanced for the skin, and naturally homogenized."

"The truth is, goat's milk is probably the absolute best mix of "good for you" and "good for nature." Unlike commercial soap, goat's milk soap contains capric, caprylic and capronic acids, and the naturally occurring triglycerides. Otherwise known as good fats."

Yes, Zum Bars. I were shocked to find out. Does the FDA approve such things? I thought the FDA had very strict rules? But I don't know, since I'm not an american and have never sat my foot in America. FDA can't possibly be that strict, judged by what Indigowild are allowed to do.

First, I have to say I am offended by your choice of cuss word (twice used) as it 1. is not allowed at SMF, and 2. because its use overshadows the message in a negative way. It would be best if you edit out those cuss words.

However, to address the FDA tolerating assumption you are making: The FDA has to know about it in order to act on it, so the first thing that has to happen for them to review such claims is to learn about them, meaning someone usually has to file a complaint with the FDA. If you want to you can search the FDA site for warning letters and follow up letters for violations by a particular company name. There are many such letters available on their site. Indigo Wild did not turn up any result when I inquired, so it would appear the FDA has no knowledge of their claims, or they are not in violation.

I am not sure if the one you quoted is actually making a prohibited claim, other than that goats milk soap contains capric, caprylic and capronic acids, but that commercial soaps do not. I don't think I believe that all commercial soaps don't contain those fatty acids, but I really don't know. I can't say that I have ever searched for goats milk soaps from a commercial soap company, so I don't even know if any of them sell GM soap.

Stating that a soap has moisturizing features does not violate the cosmetics section of the FDA regulations, it just means that that particular soap is regulated as a cosmetic. As long as the company complies with those regulations, they do have a right to make cosmetic claims.

If you want to read a bit about what the FDA has to say on the subject and look at a couple of warning letters, this link has both, including at least one warning letter sent to a Soap maker:
https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/complianceenforcement/warningletters/ucm081086.htm

ETA: More about FDA warning letters here:
https://www.mariegale.com/another-fda-warning-letter/

 

[Rune]

Thank you Earlene, I have now edited it away.

Why do I write such words in the first place? It is because I think in my language and express myself in the way it is in my part of my country. I have done that all my life, since I have been living here always. And here we use such words all the time, they are totally common in everyday language, and we do over- and underestimate everything. That is where such words come in, they are used to make things seem worse than they are, or tell how bad things really are in the worst possible way to express it. I forget that you don't talk and write like that in other countries (and not even in southern parts of my country). But here it is not offensive or anything, just plain language.

A funny story is about a man yelling "horse *****" (direct translation, almost) to a police officer. He got a fine, but refused to pay. So he took it to the court. The court desided that such words were allowed to yell to the police in this part of the country, since it is to be classified as everyday language and not offensive. So from that day, it became allowed to yell horse ***** to police officers. But only in the northern parts of Norway. In the south, it is offensive and illegal.

So what we regard as offensive here is often hundred times worse than what is offensive elsewhere. So when I write something, I have no clue that it can be offensive to anybody, before someone tells me, unless I write something that is ment to be offensive. But now I know.

Another thing is that no forums in Norway have rules for what you can say and can't, apart from eventually some types of discrimination, racism and such. Swear words are never moderated away. I very often forget that it is the total opposite in America. I know it is, but I forget it.

 

[Lin19687]

Does this person claim that their "stuff" cures things, like ADHD and Psoriasis ?

... Hey @amd I think I need that Beer we were talking about !

 

[Relle]

Thank you Earlene, I have now edited it away.

Another thing is that no forums in Norway have rules for what you can say and can't, apart from eventually some types of discrimination, racism and such. Swear words are never moderated away. I very often forget that it is the total opposite in America. I know it is, but I forget it.

By signing up to SMF you have agreed to abide by the rules. Bad language is on the list and IS moderated here. This is a world wide forum, not just America, so it is offensive to a lot of people, not just Americans. While you said it was edited away, it was not in the quoted post. I have since had to edit that out myself.
I suggest you reread the forum rules to reacquaint yourself with what is acceptable.
Swearing is a sign of a limited vocabulary.

 

[Rune]

I had no idea that the specific word were bad language. I try to not write bad language, so it is a lot I think but not write. I thought that that word were a common word and not bad language, actually. I had no idea before Earlene told me. And I had no idea it could be offensive. If I was replying to something you wrote and called it for b...., yes, then it would most definate be very, very offensive. But it was not used that way, so I had zero idea it could be offensive to anybody.

I will read the forum rules, yes.

I disagree that swearing is a sign of limited vocabulary. It can be, yes, and it might be in english language, but I think it greatly depends on who, where, what and when.

 

[LilyJo]

All I can think now is gosh what on earth did you say

 

[Relle]

Can we please get this thread back on track and keep to the information in the original post.

 

[Primrose]

Just as far as milk being the "main ingredient", I have labels where goat milk is the first ingredient, I use a 33% lye conc but 25% is the highest individual oil. It kinda happened accidentally but its probably not a bad thing in terms of label appeal.

As far as the pH thing, as others have said its absolute hogwash.

 

[Rune]

And capric and caprylic acids are not good fat. Those are the two (if I don't remember wrong) that makes coconut oil soap drying to the skin. Commercial soaps often do contain those two fatty acids in form of coconut oil. And the truth is, goat's milk is probably the absolutely not the best mix of "good for you" and "good for nature." Farm animals are not too good for nature. But it depends on what they think of as nature, if they see it as the whole world, like environmental, or just the nature surrounding those goats. The carbon footprint of farm animals are quite high, but I guess they can be good for the local nature they are walking around in.

I read quite recently that the skin does not have a PH level at all. It is the acid mantle that has a PH level, not the skin. And goats milk in soaps does definately not help to keep the skin's oils in balance. It washes the oils away, like any other soap.

And yes, the fats in goats milk does not drop the PH level of the soap, which is what they really are saying and what they want people to believe.

As I understand, goats milk is no better than other milks, it is just that it is more appropriate for soapmaking because it lacks the butyric acid, that makes soap stink very unpleasantly (depending on the fat content of the milk and amount used).

 

[Dean]

When I used foul language as a boy my mother would wash my mouth out with soap. Now if only someone around here had some soap, the naughty Norwegian could be sorted out.

Sorry Relle. I couldnt help myself. Now back to our regular programming!