Sure they could. Never once does she even suggest gloves or goggles.
http://frugalfarmwife.com/article/diy-hot-process-soap/
the mystery of the instant cure
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Sure they could. Never once does she even suggest gloves or goggles.
http://frugalfarmwife.com/article/diy-hot-process-soap/
kchaystack
Supporting Member
Um... Yeah it does not take much lye to get a burn or damage your eye if an accident happens. Those 'old time' techniques didn't have the high grade chemicals we do today - so it is apples and oranges.
"...6 ounces of liquid, 2 ounces of lye, and a pound of oil..."
"...Nobody could possibly get seriously hurt using those amounts...."
The water to lye ratio in this recipe is 4:1 which will make a high water soap that can separate in the mold and/or may be overly soft in the mold. Also the implied saponification value of that pound of oil and 2 ounces of lye is 0.125, which is very low for coconut, palm kernel, and babassu oils and below the sap values for most of the other typical soaping fats. So, yeah, you're probably right in saying that particular soap recipe won't hurt anyone, Murray, but I do believe this recipe could easily make an overly superfatted, soft soap that might be not very nice to use.
My grandmother used those "less sophisticated approaches" you mention to make her soap, because she had no other alternative. Her lack of ability to control the quality of her soap meant the family didn't use her handcrafted soap for bathing, only for laundry, because her soap was lye heavy and harsh. I don't think it's snobby at all to analyze these informal recipes and find them wanting. My grandmother knew her recipe was less than the best, and she would have leaped at the chance to make better soap. She was a thrifty do-it-yourself woman who would rather not have spent her pennies to buy Palmolive.
"...Nobody could possibly get seriously hurt using those amounts...."
The water to lye ratio in this recipe is 4:1 which will make a high water soap that can separate in the mold and/or may be overly soft in the mold. Also the implied saponification value of that pound of oil and 2 ounces of lye is 0.125, which is very low for coconut, palm kernel, and babassu oils and below the sap values for most of the other typical soaping fats. So, yeah, you're probably right in saying that particular soap recipe won't hurt anyone, Murray, but I do believe this recipe could easily make an overly superfatted, soft soap that might be not very nice to use.
My grandmother used those "less sophisticated approaches" you mention to make her soap, because she had no other alternative. Her lack of ability to control the quality of her soap meant the family didn't use her handcrafted soap for bathing, only for laundry, because her soap was lye heavy and harsh. I don't think it's snobby at all to analyze these informal recipes and find them wanting. My grandmother knew her recipe was less than the best, and she would have leaped at the chance to make better soap. She was a thrifty do-it-yourself woman who would rather not have spent her pennies to buy Palmolive.
Let's be realistic about how we sound to some people. I don't mean it's literally snobby. I was the proofreader for Scientific Soapmaking, so that is my bent as well.
As you observed, the 2 oz is a bit of a lye discount even for a low SAP oil. Hence it is safe. I considered that the 25% lye concentration has a good risk of separation in CP, but I believe her soap was cooked.
Of course such a person could learn a lot in a place like this, but I've seen more than one driven off by overly righteous crafters, so I thought I'd point out the reflexive reaction someone had to that recipe being dangerous not being run through a lye calculator. As we see, it is not.
As you observed, the 2 oz is a bit of a lye discount even for a low SAP oil. Hence it is safe. I considered that the 25% lye concentration has a good risk of separation in CP, but I believe her soap was cooked.
Of course such a person could learn a lot in a place like this, but I've seen more than one driven off by overly righteous crafters, so I thought I'd point out the reflexive reaction someone had to that recipe being dangerous not being run through a lye calculator. As we see, it is not.
Murray, I really like your posts. I think you are very smart, and probably a great soapmaker. But for those of us who are still starting to figure it out, do you not think it is better to use the calcs and err on the side of caution? I do, and still end up with lots of mistakes, but am not selling them. I think that was the part of the initial post that bothered me, the idea that someone would sell something that was ostenstibly instantly cured.
Lots of us started with bad "recipes". We learned better. So will others if they want to make better soap than that. Or they will go away convinced that handmade soap is inherently "bad".
Hi! Most people just shorten it to Top. I'm not the "Murray" type. ;-)
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And yes, I think you should emulate the people here, not the insta-cured stinky goat or YouTube or blog people. This is where it's at. For us it's lye calculators all the way. And yay for brunettes.
People we find online get ridiculed on a regular basis. It just seemed ironic that the person knew that 2 oz NaOH would be safe with 1 lb of any oil, while someone here thought it was dangerous. That advice is crude but not ignorant.
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. . .brunettes?
Have no clue what you mean, but I'm a brunette, so yay me! Unless the fact that I don't get it means I'm having a blonde moment? Hmm, maybe I do get it.
(No offense to blondes. Some of my best friends are blonde!) :-D
Have no clue what you mean, but I'm a brunette, so yay me! Unless the fact that I don't get it means I'm having a blonde moment? Hmm, maybe I do get it.
(No offense to blondes. Some of my best friends are blonde!) :-D
hmlove1218
Well-Known Member
I'm not appreciating the tone in which you keep referring to my comment.. I hope I'm just reading it wrong.
Sure, maybe THAT recipe is safe no matter what oil you use, but the blogger still makes no mentions of how every recipe needs to be run through a lye calc. So say someone takes her method, finds a properly calculated recipe, but decides to switch out a few oils without figuring the new lye amount. They make the soap and it burns them and they have no clue why the new recipe didn't work.
That article is dangerous because it doesn't educate.
Trix
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True, a reminder not everything on the labels is true (the high coconut oil content and marketed towards body use is already a tell tale sign of this..lspecially tne baby product
)
But that also ppl do all kind of M&P bases, and I imagine a piece of this would also melt in the strange way the OP described the other soap did once put in a microwave.
The only reason I feel that lady was able to deliver on the same day was because she already had some lying around...
Lol, not_ally joked about hair color in another topic, so I was just getting a little more mileage out of it.
My apologies, I didn't intend any offense.
You made a good point earlier about safety info. She should have discussed the lye more, and advised on gloves and eye protection. That's the only part that really concerns me. I appreciate that she wanted to make a simple presentation to encourage people who might never otherwise do it and avoid intimidating them. For some people this is all the information about soap making that they'll need. Others may want to get beyond this recipe or learn how to make better soap. For that they'll have to seek out more info.
"...she wanted to make a simple presentation to encourage people who might never otherwise do it and avoid intimidating them...."
TOMH -- As a former community college instructor who taught math and science, I'm all about explaining things simply and clearly to avoid intimidating my quarry, the elusive and wary freshman and sophomore science-and-math o'phobes. But I'm also all about teaching effectively, safely, and accurately. I would not have presented a recipe of that nature, even to a beginning soaper. When someone takes the role of a teacher, one needs to present good ways of working and thinking from the get-go.
"Top" in my world means something that I suspect you are not, so I'm not going there. If you aren't a Murray, then I'll default to TOMH.
TOMH -- As a former community college instructor who taught math and science, I'm all about explaining things simply and clearly to avoid intimidating my quarry, the elusive and wary freshman and sophomore science-and-math o'phobes. But I'm also all about teaching effectively, safely, and accurately. I would not have presented a recipe of that nature, even to a beginning soaper. When someone takes the role of a teacher, one needs to present good ways of working and thinking from the get-go.
"Top" in my world means something that I suspect you are not, so I'm not going there. If you aren't a Murray, then I'll default to TOMH.
DeeAnna, your post made me laugh b/c so many of my friends are gay, so I would use the term advisedly too! I'm afraid I am going to have to go with TOMH, TOMH.
Edit, JBOT, TOMH was joking about another post where the Gent was talking about soap molecules and how the "boy" molecules gravitated towards the blond "girl" molecules. That was pretty much all I understood on that thread b/c I am not a science genius like some of you all
Anyway, I jokingly complained about the gentlemen preferring blonds thing, and TOMH stepped up to jokingly defend us brunettes.
Edit, JBOT, TOMH was joking about another post where the Gent was talking about soap molecules and how the "boy" molecules gravitated towards the blond "girl" molecules. That was pretty much all I understood on that thread b/c I am not a science genius like some of you all
Anyway, I jokingly complained about the gentlemen preferring blonds thing, and TOMH stepped up to jokingly defend us brunettes.
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Oh my! Can't think of anything clever to say, but couldn't let that go unacknowledged, either. . .
Y'all can feel free to call me Jane! "JBot" is sort of a joke based on the nickname my husband has among is colleagues. His first name starts with "I," and they call him I-Bot.
Now I must go hunt for this science-y post about the blonde molecules. Love that stuff.
LBussy
Well-Known Member
Oh my. Lots of gay friends and even had a gay roommate and I didn't go there!
I was think Top as in Top Sergeant "First Sergeant" so I guess the Army has displaced my dirty humor. Whoodathunkit?
And everyone knows ladies with hair are where it's at! (Although I am partial to redheads. I sure wish I would have known how pretty they would be because I'd have been nicer in school. )
I don't recommend any particular way to shorten it. Top is simply what most people spontaneously choose, but anything is fine except Murray. That's disconcerting because it's a real name but not mine. Even bottom is okay. ;-)
TMOH, no, no, not bottom either I get why Murray does not work, though, that sounds so much like an old lovely grandfatherly type who does not make soap. Although that would be good too, if that is who you are. I am often amused at the fact that sometimes I assume men are women here, or vice versa, and then it becomes clear that they are not. Board names are very misleading, I have a friend on another board whose name is Pastor Mike. Before we exchanged emails I imagined him as a compassionate, married minister with a bunch of kids, station wagons, and a human flock. The compassionate and dogs part was right, the rest pretty much completely removed from his real self! I like the surprises.
"I guess the Army has displaced my dirty humor. Whoodathunkit?" Not me, Lee! Armed forces guys are usually pretty respectful and polite around women (or at least me, maybe b/c I never served w/them) but I guess I thought they were worse than the rest of us generally, you know a bunch of guys together. Even though I admit, I have quite the potty mouth at times, I can curse like a sailor if there is no one around to be offended.
I get why Murray does not work, though, that sounds so much like an old lovely grandfatherly type who does not make soap. Although that would be good too, if that is who you are. I am often amused at the fact that sometimes I assume men are women here, or vice versa, and then it becomes clear that they are not. Board names are very misleading, I have a friend on another board whose name is Pastor Mike. Before we exchanged emails I imagined him as a compassionate, married minister with a bunch of kids, station wagons, and a human flock. The compassionate and dogs part was right, the rest pretty much completely removed from his real self! I like the surprises."I guess the Army has displaced my dirty humor. Whoodathunkit?" Not me, Lee! Armed forces guys are usually pretty respectful and polite around women (or at least me, maybe b/c I never served w/them) but I guess I thought they were worse than the rest of us generally, you know a bunch of guys together. Even though I admit, I have quite the potty mouth at times, I can curse like a sailor if there is no one around to be offended.
TMOH, no, no, not bottom either
In contrast, I am uber-cool. ;-)
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