the mystery of the instant cure

[MorpheusPA]

Mind you, I did an HP rescue on a CP failure and used it three days later. In my own shower, and I'd never give it to anybody else. It's decent soap if you ignore the warped scent and terrible color. I still have my hide intact and it's not drying. Durability leaves something to be desired due to the lack of cure.

However, even with HP I wouldn't give the stuff away until week 4 at minimum. Week 6, more likely.

I tend to agree that the lack of improving characteristics tends to indicate MP. Not that there's anything wrong with MP, per se.

 

[JBot]

I tend to agree that the lack of improving characteristics tends to indicate MP. Not that there's anything wrong with MP, per se.

Nothing inherently wrong with MP, but there IS something wrong with misrepresenting it as CP/from scratch. Her label reads: soybean oil, coconut oil, goat's milk, palm oil. Maybe soybean oil is actually a good soaping oil -- never used it myself -- but I associate it with the bulk vegetable oil that's sold at the grocery store for cooking, and it seems terribly cheap. And by "cheap" I mean low-quality, not a good bargain.

But after examining it again, I really don't think it's MP. It doesn't have that sticky texture, and it doesn't sweat. They've shrunk over time; the cigar bands are noticeably looser.

My nose is more sensitive than most, and the sour smell I can detect under the fragrance is just awful. No DOS or anything, but they do have that sort of muddy yellow color that a lot of milk soaps seem to end up with, which sadly detracts from the colored swirls. Her swirls are really beautiful! Some of the FO she uses must be accelerators: rose, plumeria, etc. Makes me wonder how she gets those lovely, delicate swirls that need to be done at thin trace.

If YOU figured out a way to actually do what she's claiming she does, would you tell other people how you do it?

 

[Susie]

I don't sell my soap, so I would tell everyone. Repeatedly. But, yes, I get your point. Anyone that does sell soap would certainly be wise to keep it a secret.

 

[Trix]

Hi jbot, I agree with those who say this is probably M&P mixed with goats milk, and then dehydrated.
ppl add all sort of additives to melt and pour, and goats milk is no exception at all.

Did she not have an ingredients list, I thought that by latin the USA a seller needs to have one, but I don't really know?

 

[Muskette]

There's an easy way to rule out it being MP. Just put a piece in the microwave and melt it - see if it turns to liquid.

I think it's some kind of HP. Lots of soapers believe that HP doesn't need curing. Maybe she just used the GM as an additive at the end of the cook, for label appeal, and to make the batter more fluid for her swirls. That would explain the goat smell.

 

[dillsandwitch]

Theres this lady on one of the Facebook pages I'm a member of that sells her soap less than a week after she makes it and people seem to snap up her "all natural soaps". She lists her ingredients as Coconut oil, Olive Oil, Tallow, Distilled water, Natural colouring and Essential oils, yet some of the fragrances she has can in no way be an essential oil. I mean can you squeeze jelly beans or something? hahahahaha

It drives me nuts when people do this, especially as I have been thinking somewhat seriously about getting into selling my own soaps soon. Maybe I should just make it a goal to sell better and more quality soaps then her and "steal" away her customers..... mmmwwhahahaha

But until then if it happens i will just quietly disprove of her selling uncured soaps to unsuspecting peoples.

 

[LBussy]

Did she not have an ingredients list, I thought that by latin the USA a seller needs to have one, but I don't really know?

No, but if it is listed it needs to be correct. Shave soap does need an ingredient list, but not something simply made for cleansing.

Now, make a claim like "moisturizes skin" and you are in a different category.

 

[navigator9]

I have used my own CPOPed soaps right after I cut them. They are "useable", but I would never sell them without a full cure, or even give them away to my friends. There will always be sellers who see dollar signs as more important than people. But if you make great soap, and are honest with your customers, you will grow a loyal customer base who know and love your product and can't live without it. If you make a great product, there's no need to stretch the truth. And if you do stretch it, sooner or later someone will call you out, and it's very hard to regain customer's trust once you've lost it. It's so much easier to just do the right thing.

 

[Seawolfe]

I bet she CPOP's her soap, and, following the logic of that crazy lady who says HP is ready for use after cutting, so is CPOP.
You really cant do CP swirls in M&P I am finding, and M&P will never match the hardness of CP/HP/CPOP soap.

 

[JBot]

I have used my own CPOPed soaps right after I cut them. They are "useable", but I would never sell them without a full cure, or even give them away to my friends. There will always be sellers who see dollar signs as more important than people. But if you make great soap, and are honest with your customers, you will grow a loyal customer base who know and love your product and can't live without it. If you make a great product, there's no need to stretch the truth. And if you do stretch it, sooner or later someone will call you out, and it's very hard to regain customer's trust once you've lost it. It's so much easier to just do the right thing.

Indeed. I don't know whether she has repeat customers (people who don't know that soap can be better than that?), but I'd think it would be difficult to make a living selling soap if you didn't have repeat customers.

Hi jbot, I agree with those who say this is probably M&P mixed with goats milk, and then dehydrated.
ppl add all sort of additives to melt and pour, and goats milk is no exception at all.

Did she not have an ingredients list, I thought that by latin the USA a seller needs to have one, but I don't really know?

She does. Soybean oil, coconut oil, goat's milk, palm oil.

I don't sell my soap, so I would tell everyone. Repeatedly. But, yes, I get your point. Anyone that does sell soap would certainly be wise to keep it a secret.

I've thought about this a lot as I've wondered if I could ever get her to tell me what she's doing. (She won't, pretty sure of that.) I actually think I would share the secret, even though I do plan to sell in the future, and here's why: it has no bearing on how good your recipe is, how good your soap smells, or how pretty it is. It's purely a matter of time. Assuming equal quality, it makes no difference (to me) whether I have to cure my soap for 4-6 weeks or can sell it right away.

Seriously, what's the rush? Maybe it would matter for the first month or two, but after that, you should have plenty of cured soap available for sale while the fresh stuff cures, and as long as you maintain your pipeline, it shouldn't be a problem to wait.

If I had a huge operation, perhaps the amount of space it takes to cure a lot of soap for 6 weeks would make a difference, but if I had business that big, presumably I would also have the space.

Then again, easy for me to say, right? I've never been in that position.

 

[MorpheusPA]

But after examining it again, I really don't think it's MP. It doesn't have that sticky texture, and it doesn't sweat. They've shrunk over time; the cigar bands are noticeably looser.

It's weird, but my MP base doesn't sweat or get sticky. I use Crafter's Choice.

I can't tell you if it shrinks because I plastic wrap MP or leave it naked (I find a syndet bar simply does better on my hair and for shaving, so I use those instead of CP).

Makes me wonder how she gets those lovely, delicate swirls that need to be done at thin trace.

That does indicate CP as MP is extremely difficult to swirl. It can be done, and I've managed, but the swirls aren't what you'd call "delicate."

If YOU figured out a way to actually do what she's claiming she does, would you tell other people how you do it?

Probably. I've freely shared any other technique or modification I've done so others can benefit. Specific recipes, experiences with fragrance oils and colorants, you name it.

Hey, you guys aren't really competition for me even if I sold. My aesthetic is going to differ and there's room for everybody. Just the price of this stuff says that demand is greater than supply.

 

[MorpheusPA]

I don't sell my soap, so I would tell everyone. Repeatedly. But, yes, I get your point. Anyone that does sell soap would certainly be wise to keep it a secret.

Maybe, but knowing something exists is already half the battle in figuring it out.

CP soap has so few ingredients that it's not an additive or it'd have to be on the label. Most techniques--like dehydration, additional heat, moving air, and so on we've tried.

Here, I tend to be in the camp that says she's selling lye-bound and non-zapping but not fully cured soap and mistaking no zap for full cure.

 

[coffeetime]

Wasn't there a soaper on here that was making HP with the addition of sodium lactate to keep it fluid for swirls? Would adding goats milk near the end of HPing create sodium lactate? I don't HP so I don't know.

 

[LBussy]

Wasn't there a soaper on here that was making HP with the addition of sodium lactate to keep it fluid for swirls? Would adding goats milk near the end of HPing create sodium lactate? I don't HP so I don't know.

You'd need to add lactic acid to react with free lye to make sodium lactate.

 

[Susie]

Y'all are missing the point about the hotel...she was able to bring them soap the same day they asked for it. Wouldn't you need to give HP or CPOP the same 18-24 hours in the mold as CP?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

That's if she actually did that - which I am beginning to doubt.

 

[IrishLass]

Do what Muskette suggested earlier on page 2 of this thread. Take some of the soap and melt it. You will know immediately if it is MP or not, and that will settle the issue. MP melts smoothly and quick. CP/HP/CPOP does not. She could be making melt and pour from scratch, but if she is, she's left out some very key ingredients on her label.

IrishLass

 

[pamielynn]

JBot - breast milk! In MP.

Admins - let me know if you want me to remove the link: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/09/03/breast-milk-soap/15020677/

 

[JBot]

Wasn't there a soaper on here that was making HP with the addition of sodium lactate to keep it fluid for swirls? Would adding goats milk near the end of HPing create sodium lactate? I don't HP so I don't know.

I do HP almost exclusively. I use sodium lactate and add liquid oils after the cook, which definitely helps. It's pretty smooth for HP, but still not quite as smooth as CP. I had one batch that probably could have passed for CP at first, but the water was so high that it warped horribly during the cure.

If there's a way to make HP look just like CP, really and truly, I sure hope I figure it out.

Y'all are missing the point about the hotel...she was able to bring them soap the same day they asked for it. Wouldn't you need to give HP or CPOP the same 18-24 hours in the mold as CP?

I can usually cut my HP as soon as it's cool, which is anywhere from 8 to 12 hours. But it's nowhere near as hard as it gets while curing. I would not want to bevel, wrap/label, transport, or really handle it at all at that stage.

Do what Muskette suggested earlier on page 2 of this thread. Take some of the soap and melt it. You will know immediately if it is MP or not, and that will settle the issue. MP melts smoothly and quick. CP/HP/CPOP does not. She could be making melt and pour from scratch, but if she is, she's left out some very key ingredients on her label.

IrishLass

Exactly. MP needs some kind of solvent, right? Like alcohol or glycerin? I will nuke some tonight and report back!

JBot - breast milk! In MP.

Soaping with body fluids. Nice. Yes, I know goat milk is a body fluid too, but it just doesn't generate the same ick factor.

 

[Obsidian]

Y'all are missing the point about the hotel...she was able to bring them soap the same day they asked for it. Wouldn't you need to give HP or CPOP the same 18-24 hours in the mold as CP?

Not necessarily. I made a small batch a couple days ago that I CPOP. It took about 5 hours from the time I poured to the time I cut, I could have cut that time down by putting the gelled soap in the freezer to cool faster.
If she started in the morning, she could have a CPOP soap cut and wrapped by late afternoon.

I remember a video on youtube of a lady slicing and selling fresh HP at a outdoor farmers market. You know that soap wasn't good either but she had no issues selling.