You probably overheated the glycerin and lye mixture. That will turn dark amber in a heartbeat. I have the same problem every last time I heat the glycerin. That is why I use water to dissolve the KOH, then add the glycerin to the oils. I am having trouble with thin soap, also. That is why I say I am still learning IrishLass' method.
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Hi Terry!
It would depend on how hot your crockpot is able to get. I cook mine in a pot directly on my stovetop burner set to med-high heat which is able to get the job of dissolving the KOH in the glycerin in a matter of about 10 minutes tops. Glycerin has to be at a good boil in order for the KOH to be able to dissolve completely . From what I understand, the boiling point of glycerin is 554 degreesF/290 degreesC.
The good news is that you can still do the glycerin method without having to dissolve the KOH in boiling glycerin if you don't want to. Just do exactly what DeeAnna mentioned in her post- dissolve the KOH in room temp water (it dissolves in just a minute or so, tops!) and then add in the glycerin amount that you'd normally use if you were going to boil the glycerin and KOH together. And then you can add the KOH/water/glycerin solution to the pre-warmed oils. I did it that way a few months back and it was great! Here is my post that details my experience doing it that way:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=452730&postcount=103
HTH!
IrishLass
shaan said:But why my LS never turns so clear?It always turns dark amber color. I tried everything, but never got clear soap like you all. It foams well,feels nice,but never clear and thick.
Hi Shaan!
Let's see if we can get this figured out! To be on the safe side, could you post the exact oil types and the recipe amounts of them that you are using, and also how much KOH and what type of water you are using? I want to make sure I have the correct foundation down before I start troubleshooting.
I've just been re-acquainting myself with the whole conversation of the thread (which I've lost track of due to busyness), and so far, one thing sticks out to me as being a very possible suspect....the 85% purity of your KOH and how different the various soap calculators can be when trying to figure out the exact amount of KOH to use in order to match the clear, thick results I get when I use the SBM calculator (whew- that was a mouthful! lol ). I just figured out (only just today as a matter of fact) how to manually calculate for lye purity when calculating a recipe, so I'm ready for some troubleshooting! Hopefully DeeAnna and Susie will be able to double-check my results once I'm done brainstorming.
IrishLass
Dahila
Well-Known Member
Mine is amber color too, but it looks that light cause it is dilution into foaming pump. Is that right? Leave 4 cm on the top add That much distilled water and fill up with your soap) Happy hand washing :mrgreen:
) Happy hand washing :mrgreen:Thank you Irish lass!
Ok, here is the amount used-
Olive oil- 325 grams,
Coconut oil-125 grams,
Castor oil-50 grams.
Glycerin-350 grams., lye-115 grams(85% pure)
I first melted coconut oil,then added olive and castor oil to it. I mixed potassium hydroxide pellets in glycerin,then heated it on stove on medium heat and kept mixing it. After 5-7 mins,all lye was mixed completely and it was boiling..i kept mixing all the while.
I immediately added glycerin+KOH to oils,and mixed it with a whisk. Within 4-5 minutes tiny bubbles started flying off the pan.. it was bubbly on top and amber color thin liquid at the bottom..it was very hot to touch..i stopped there,covered it,and left it overnight.. then in the morning i got a very thick paste,half of which i diluted, half i stored in a poly bag.
Diluted 404 grams of paste in 303 grams of water.. i multiplied 404 by 0.75. Hope my maths was correct..
I have attached the pics of the lye i use, soap paste,and diluted soap.
Ok, here is the amount used-
Olive oil- 325 grams,
Coconut oil-125 grams,
Castor oil-50 grams.
Glycerin-350 grams., lye-115 grams(85% pure)
I first melted coconut oil,then added olive and castor oil to it. I mixed potassium hydroxide pellets in glycerin,then heated it on stove on medium heat and kept mixing it. After 5-7 mins,all lye was mixed completely and it was boiling..i kept mixing all the while.
I immediately added glycerin+KOH to oils,and mixed it with a whisk. Within 4-5 minutes tiny bubbles started flying off the pan.. it was bubbly on top and amber color thin liquid at the bottom..it was very hot to touch..i stopped there,covered it,and left it overnight.. then in the morning i got a very thick paste,half of which i diluted, half i stored in a poly bag.
Diluted 404 grams of paste in 303 grams of water.. i multiplied 404 by 0.75. Hope my maths was correct..
I have attached the pics of the lye i use, soap paste,and diluted soap.
Very nice, Shaan!
I see your soap is darker amber than the soap I made with the same recipe -- mine is a lighter gold. I wonder -- are any of your oils fairly dark to begin with? Coconut oil that I usually gets ranges from pale yellow to white. Olive oil can be amber to pale yellow. Castor is clear like water. Is this true for your oils?
I ran your recipe through my personal soap calculator. Using your 85% KOH, I'd probably use more like 117 grams of the lye, rather than 115 g. 117 g comes out to be 3% superfat. 115 g is about 5% superfat.
Honestly, the difference will only be important if you get separation of the fats from the soap after dilution. If you don't see separation, you're fine!
I see your soap is darker amber than the soap I made with the same recipe -- mine is a lighter gold. I wonder -- are any of your oils fairly dark to begin with? Coconut oil that I usually gets ranges from pale yellow to white. Olive oil can be amber to pale yellow. Castor is clear like water. Is this true for your oils?
I ran your recipe through my personal soap calculator. Using your 85% KOH, I'd probably use more like 117 grams of the lye, rather than 115 g. 117 g comes out to be 3% superfat. 115 g is about 5% superfat.
Honestly, the difference will only be important if you get separation of the fats from the soap after dilution. If you don't see separation, you're fine!
Yes, olive oil is golden yellow to amber color(somewhere in between), coconut oil is white, castor oil light yellow. It is around more than 15 days,and this soap has not separated. But i was hoping for a clear soap as others are able to make.
I don't know actually how to calculate 85% purity. What i do is use soap calc calculator,selecting 90% pure,and then multiply the lye amount by 0.05. As 5% is the difference between 85 and 90.
I was looking for another lye, but the worse thing, the packet only contains lye without anything written over it.
And when asked about the purity,the seller says he will confirm from manufacturer and then let me know..its been two weeks of waiting for his confirmation. :-(
I don't know actually how to calculate 85% purity. What i do is use soap calc calculator,selecting 90% pure,and then multiply the lye amount by 0.05. As 5% is the difference between 85 and 90.
I was looking for another lye, but the worse thing, the packet only contains lye without anything written over it.
And when asked about the purity,the seller says he will confirm from manufacturer and then let me know..its been two weeks of waiting for his confirmation. :-(
"...What i do is use soap calc calculator,selecting 90% pure,and then multiply the lye amount by 0.05. As 5% is the difference between 85 and 90...."
This is a good approach to the problem, but may I suggest doing this instead. I think it will give you more accurate results...
***
1. Calculate the KOH at whatever purity you choose in SoapCalc.
Let's say you stick with the 90% purity option in SoapCalc. Using the recipe you gave above, the result I get is 110.7 grams of 90% pure KOH.
If your number is a bit different, that's fine. Just use the number you get from SoapCalc.
2. Correct the weight of the KOH needed based on the actual purity of your KOH:
Grams KOH at 85% purity = 110.7 X 90 / 85 = 117.2 grams
***
Look at the fraction of 90 / 85 in the math problem above. See how the first number is the purity used in the calculations and the second number is the actual purity you want?
Here's the generic formula so you can use this for any soap recipe:
Grams KOH at your actual purity = (grams KOH based on the soap calculator's purity) X (Soap calculator's KOH purity) / (Your actual KOH purity)
I hope this make sense!
This is a good approach to the problem, but may I suggest doing this instead. I think it will give you more accurate results...
***
1. Calculate the KOH at whatever purity you choose in SoapCalc.
Let's say you stick with the 90% purity option in SoapCalc. Using the recipe you gave above, the result I get is 110.7 grams of 90% pure KOH.
If your number is a bit different, that's fine. Just use the number you get from SoapCalc.
2. Correct the weight of the KOH needed based on the actual purity of your KOH:
Grams KOH at 85% purity = 110.7 X 90 / 85 = 117.2 grams
***
Look at the fraction of 90 / 85 in the math problem above. See how the first number is the purity used in the calculations and the second number is the actual purity you want?
Here's the generic formula so you can use this for any soap recipe:
Grams KOH at your actual purity = (grams KOH based on the soap calculator's purity) X (Soap calculator's KOH purity) / (Your actual KOH purity)
I hope this make sense!
That was amazing Dee Anna! Simple yet Great explanation! It is quite clear now..i will try make next soap with this calculation. Hope it turns clear.
I have one more question, if you could help out..
All the liquid soaps i made earlier with water,not the glycerin method, are thick when bottled,but after 15-20 days,turn thin. And when used in the beginning, little soap creates good foam,but later i have to use more soap,but feels little oily and less cleaning. And all my soaps turn dark in color,whatever oil combination i use.. is it because of wrong lye calculation or some other reason?
I tried to thicken one with HEC, was thick when bottled(like commercial shampoo) , then after two weeks,it was very thick at the bottom, and thin liquid on top.
.i will try make next soap with this calculation. Hope it turns clear.I have one more question, if you could help out..
All the liquid soaps i made earlier with water,not the glycerin method, are thick when bottled,but after 15-20 days,turn thin. And when used in the beginning, little soap creates good foam,but later i have to use more soap,but feels little oily and less cleaning. And all my soaps turn dark in color,whatever oil combination i use.. is it because of wrong lye calculation or some other reason?
I tried to thicken one with HEC, was thick when bottled(like commercial shampoo) , then after two weeks,it was very thick at the bottom, and thin liquid on top.
I made the IrishLass' LGS yesterday.(50% water/50% glycerin) I got interrupted after running the stick blender a couple of 30 second bursts. I was away from the pot probably 3 minutes. Came back to find the bottom of it had turned to paste, and the top still liquid. I ran the SB another 30 seconds, and watched it turn to paste. No bubbles flying, but I had the most perfect soft paste I have ever seen. I put the lid on, and had supper. When I finished eating, I peeked at the paste, perfect gel with no discoloration, whatsoever. So I added SL and water. Then I put the lid on and walked away.
Fast forward to 2 am, and the whole top half of the soap is diluted. I poked holes in the paste with the spoon so the water could get down through the rest.
This has really been an amazing batch of LGS.
Fast forward to 2 am, and the whole top half of the soap is diluted. I poked holes in the paste with the spoon so the water could get down through the rest.
This has really been an amazing batch of LGS.
"...All the liquid soaps i made earlier with water,not the glycerin method, are thick when bottled,but after 15-20 days,turn thin. And when used in the beginning, little soap creates good foam,but later i have to use more soap,but feels little oily and less cleaning. And all my soaps turn dark in color,whatever oil combination i use.. is it because of wrong lye calculation or some other reason?..."
Shaan -- I have been away from home a lot recently, so I didn't see your question until today. I'm sorry for the delay.
I don't have good answers for you about why your soaps turn thin with time and why they are dark. I have seen your pictures and agree your soap paste is darker than mine.
I really don't think these problems are because your calculations are bad. That said, next time please use the formula I suggested in Post 409. That will reduce your superfat a little bit, and I think that will be a good thing.
I'm really hoping someone else has suggestions for you, because I don't have good advice to offer! Sometimes I need to stand by the person as they do something -- and by watching the person and what they do, the problems become clear. Since I cannot do that with you, I'm stumped.
Shaan -- I have been away from home a lot recently, so I didn't see your question until today. I'm sorry for the delay.
I don't have good answers for you about why your soaps turn thin with time and why they are dark. I have seen your pictures and agree your soap paste is darker than mine.
I really don't think these problems are because your calculations are bad. That said, next time please use the formula I suggested in Post 409. That will reduce your superfat a little bit, and I think that will be a good thing.
I'm really hoping someone else has suggestions for you, because I don't have good advice to offer! Sometimes I need to stand by the person as they do something -- and by watching the person and what they do, the problems become clear. Since I cannot do that with you, I'm stumped.
ngian
Well-Known Member
Another great thread full of great tips and advices. LS is already in my to do list.
I have found KOH with 90% purity and with 85%. The second purity is also available in a "chemistry cleaned" version that costs more than the "dirtier" one. Which one would you recommend?
Nikos
I have found KOH with 90% purity and with 85%. The second purity is also available in a "chemistry cleaned" version that costs more than the "dirtier" one. Which one would you recommend?
Nikos
Last edited:
I personally would get the cleaned version if my budget allowed and the cost difference wasn't ridiculously large. It's my guess that more impurities may increase your chance of cloudy soap, if a goal is for your soap to be as clear as possible.
I got some "expired" 45% w/w KOH in water from a lab I used to work at. It was never even opened but b/c of the possibility of it changing concentration just a little, they were going to throw it out... I got a full 4 L bottle for free. It makes very clear soap because of the lack of other impurities.
Niiiiicccce! Great score, Galaxy!
Hey all!! M so happy! Finally got clear liquid soap..yeah yeah..this was from the remaining paste of same batch..this means i might have over heated the soap while dilution..
I will definitely use the calculation given by you, Dee Anna..then will update you.
M sooooo happy thanx everyone for your help. 
I will definitely use the calculation given by you, Dee Anna..then will update you.
M sooooo happy
thanx everyone for your help.
Bravo, Shaan!!!!!! Good work.
Yay! I'm so happy for you, Shaan!
IrishLass
IrishLass
SoapingSara
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Hi Chef!
Yes- after I have diluted my paste and made it nice and pearly with stearic acid and PS80 to emulsify, I weigh it, and then I add in a 2% superfat as per the weight of the diluted soap (not the paste) that my scale shows me (along with more PS80 to emulsify the 2% superfat). My superfat oil of choice is Meadowfoam Seed Oil. I love that stuff!
HTH!
IrishLass
Goodmorning, I was looking over the notes here and I had a thought. I was wondering if I should be adding PS20 or PS80 For any and all superfat extra oils I add to my finished Liquid Soap. I see here above in your comments to Chef that you do, but is that the general rule for most Liquid Soap Recipes anyway? To add an emulsifier to added superfat oils in the finished Liquid Soap? Sometimes I add a splash of oil while dilution is taking place and my end product seems to still be ok if I use just a bit of added oil. I was wondering what the standard thing to do tho when adding extra superfat oils to a finished LS. Thanks
