Soaping 101 liquid soapmaking video?

[IrishLass]

Hi Cookbook Chef!

I hope I don't cause you more confusion, but bear with me. While I do use 1 part paste to .75 parts water for this particular formula, it's not what one would call a 75% dilution. It's actually a 57% dilution, believe it or not. Like I said, bear with me. lol

All that I am doing with the .75 or the 75% figure is creating a "dilution ratio", which is actually different than creating a "dilution percent".

Basically, I'm weighing the amount of my paste that I want to dilute, and adding 25% less water to it. In order to do that, I first consider the paste to be the equivalent of 100% (or 1 part) and then I add 25% less water in weight as per paste to it. [100% (1 part) paste weight minus 25% = 75% or .75 parts water in weight to add], i.e., a ratio of 1 part paste to .75 parts water.

Okay, so let's say I've chosen how much paste I want to dilute. In order to get the proper water weight to add to dilute it, I multiply the paste weight by .75, or if you have a calculator, you can move the decimal point over twice to the right and multiply the paste weight by 75%. That will give me 25% less water in weight than paste (i.e., a ratio of 1 part paste to .75 parts water), which is a perfect ratio for this particular formula, as you and I have found to our mutual delight.

Now, in order to create a "dilution percent" (as opposed to a "dilution ratio"), we need to convert the ratio of "1 part paste to .75 part water" into a percent. In order to do that, we will first need to add up the paste weight and the water weight together. Lets say we have 4 oz. of paste and 3 oz. of water (which happens to be a correct 1 to .75 ratio amount for this formula). So, 4 + 3 = 7 oz. , which means our diluted soap will equal a total of 7 oz.

Now, in order to come up with the correct "dilution percent" out of the above equation, we divide the paste weight by the total weight of the diluted soap: 4 divided by 7 = .57. To convert .57 to a percent we just move the decimal over two places to the right and add a % sign, i.e., 57%. So, this formula's dilution rate in terms of percent is 57%.

So, when people talk about adding one part paste to one part water, that would be 100% Dilution?

Nope, that would actually be a 50% dilution

And when soaping101.com Video for making liquid soap, she states we should weigh the soap paste and times it by 3 to know how much water to add. That then would be 300% Dilution, right?

Nope, that would actually be a 25% dilution if I did the math right.

Here is a great water calculator that you can use for figuring out your dilutions in terms of percent:

http://www.rivercitysoaps.com/dwcp/watercalc.php

Although the calculator is geared for making lye solutions, it works for any kind of solution/dilution you are making. I like it a lot because it lets you calculate 2 different ways depending on your known variables.


I'm with you, Chef- I'm not sure that I agree at all with the dilution percents that that came from Chickens in the Road. Using the math that I used above, and also the RiverCity Water calculator, I get totally different percents from what Chickens came up with. By the way, the math I used above gives me the same sums/results as the River City water calculator.

As far as dilution rates go for different soap formulas, it's all a matter of preference. There are no 'set-in-stone' dilution rates, only general guidelines. You can add as much or as little water as you want in order to get the consistency you like, although you'll definitely want to make sure add enough water to so that no globs remain. Once you've figured that amount out, you can add as much water as you want, depending on how thin/thick you want your soap to be.

Hopefully, I explained things well enough. Please let me know if something is not totally clear.

IrishLass

 

[CookbookChef]

IrishLass, You have explained things wonderfully to me and I appreciate your help. I DO understand now and I do believe i have not Got It!! Yes, I feel welcome by you and by your graceful and caring way, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart since you have taken the time to Truly help me, and help others on a very difficult item to make. But you have helped turn something complicated for me into something simple. I will never go back to store bought liquid soap EVER AGAIN! I wish I knew you and wish you were my neighbor. I would of loved to send you a gift for taking care of me the way you have, from the start. I appreciate you and your kindness. Thank you Irishlass, you have changed my life forever!! Irishlass you are a very kind and helpful person indeed XXOO

ps, thank you to the OTHERS who have tried to help me. I know that they meant well, and I appreciate their attempt to help me, even if I did not understand their help. Thank you for trying, I appreciate that. I wanted to acknowledge YOUR help as well. Thank you. This thread has been a whole bunch of ppl who have tried to help one another be successful, and I wanted to extend my thanks for that

 

[Susie]

I would truly like to know whether you tried my recipe and what happened when you tried it. I am not going to be defensive. I have room for improvement. Some of which might be the recipes, some might be the inadequacy of the explanation. And it might just be that your brain works different than mine, so I am just not hitting what you need to know to get it. So, it would really help for me to know this. I am horribad in math, so I am no help there, tis true.

 

[CookbookChef]

Hi Susie, I re wrote my last post. Writing a book in the middle of the night wasn't the best thing after all. So, I re wrote my post and submitted that. I will look at my notes on all of my recipes and will see how, or if their is something I could say about your recipe and post back. Probably sometime after the weekend. Thanks Susie for your help. oh, and ps...not sure If I used your exact recipe...I have done so many this last month, but I do believe I did. I will look up all my notes and recipes that I saved and let you know either way my problems or my victory on it. But ya, just so you know, and everybody knows, I have NOW landed in a good spot in liquid soap making. Irishlass and her recipe is my END ....lol, becuase for me, it works so beautifully each time I use it. Saying that, for FUN..I might still try others ppls recipes, but for me....the best recipe yet has been Irishlass and her no cook method. Just heat lye/glycerin till clear, then add to heated oils, turn off crock pot, blend until a bubble storm surrounds my head/room, Cover, leave alone for several hours and walla, DONE!! Dilute and go on with life. Simple, and works every time

 

[Susie]

Glad you found something that works! That is, by far, the most important thing! Like I said, I really do need constructive criticism on some things. I feel I learn more from when things don't click with someone than when they do.

 

[IrishLass]

Thank you for your very kind words, Chef. I'm just glad to have been able to be of help.

It's funny how differently each of our individual minds work. For example, my hubby- who oftentimes reminds me of the very analytical/logical Mr. Spock or Data from Star Trek- can try to explain something to me 5 different ways and it'll all go over my head, but then someone else comes along and says the same thing in a slightly different way, and bam- it finally clicks. lol

That's why I love this forum. We have so many wonderful, intelligent people here willing to share their soaping wisdom that if one person's explanation doesn't click, there's a very good chance that somebody else's will.

I love it when 'click' happens.


IrishLass

 

[CookbookChef]

Oh, and I dont know why, and it doesnt much matter now that I DO have a recipe that works for me, but on ALL the other recipes I never did get those flying bubbles around my head except for YOUR recipe, Miss Irishlass!! Your recipe always has my kitchen full of bubbles It makes me feel like I am in a dream. The only other recipe that gave me just a few flying bubbles was the soaping101.com liquid soap recipe. I had to be over that pot all day long...I think it was around 7 hours before that recipe had cooked, and I had to baby sit it all day long giving it a stir every 20 to 30 minutes! Your recipe I get the flying bubbles almost right away, and I blend it for just a minute or two after the flying bubbles for good measure, and then thats it, I lid the crock pot and walk away...ya, its so good to have it all work out for me now

 

[aprilprichard]

Hi April!

I leave it alone completely off the heat.

IrishLass

Thank you IrishLass! I thought that was what you did but wanted to make sure! Thank you so much for your postings here. Failors book had completely intimidated me, but you've given a much simpler method and I can't wait to try it! I promised my gf, who hates bar soap, that I would make liquid soap for her for Christmas! Running out of time!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making Forum App....love this app!

 

[aprilprichard]

How does everyone store their undiluted paste? Fridge?


Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making Forum App....love this app!

 

[Susie]

I store mine in the refrigerator, NOT because it needs to be stored there to preserve it in any way. I have a horrible memory, and I lost a batch of soap paste when I stored it elsewhere. I did later find it and use it, and it was just fine(a year later), but it needs to live somewhere I will see it on a regular basis to not forget where I put it. My right hand crisper drawer serves the purpose well.

 

[IrishLass]

I store mine in the fridge, too, in gallon-sized ZipLoc baggies.

IrishLass

 

[CookbookChef]

I Do have a new question Irishlass, I have been making your Glycerin Liquid Soap to GREAT Success!! But my question would be this:

What if I happen to run our of Glycerin (like I just did) and dont want to run to the store for MORE Glycerin. Am I able to do your recipe without the Glycerin?

Now that I have asked my question, I suspect that the answer would be yes, but with the following considerations. Yes, I don't have to use glycerin, I could use distilled water, but that my time involved would be considerably more, correct? To get to that stage where I have flying bubbles may take awhile and the final end product will be considerably different in Look and Feel. Right?

If it is true, that I can use the water, am I still able to apply your QUICK version of making the soap, meaning same rules apply?

I just know that it could be a few days before I get some Glycerin again as I live in the Country and we don't take trips to town often enough for all my glycerin needs. I know when I make your glycerin recipe, my soap feels very luxury! and if I use the water instead, that I might be also loosing that Luxury feeling I get with the Glycerin soap. But, I have a stir in me to make the liquid soap, just out of Glycerin. And yes, I can not Stand the old way of making liquid soap, where I have to check it and stir it every 20 minutes. When I make it that way, it takes upwards to 7 hours of staying by my crock, and its tiresome. I just LOVE your recipe and now have made it several times to great success. so, just wondering here, can I apply your rules, as in get the flying bubbles, lid it, and forget it??? Oh please say it is so

 

[CookbookChef]

I would truly like to know whether you tried my recipe and what happened when you tried it. I am not going to be defensive. I have room for improvement. Some of which might be the recipes, some might be the inadequacy of the explanation. And it might just be that your brain works different than mine, so I am just not hitting what you need to know to get it. So, it would really help for me to know this. I am horribad in math, so I am no help there, tis true.

I guess I did NOT try your recipe Susie...I thought I did, but looking thru, I did not. I doesn't mean that I cant make it tho, If I do, I shall post back how it turned out. I have tried so many, with so many fails...doesnt mean yours is bad tho, ok? it means that I just haven't tried it yet. Maybe its fantastic!! So, ya, I will note back here if I do indeed make it sometime. SMILES
Maybe others have tried it?

 

[IrishLass]

Hi Chef!

I have not tried making the recipe with only water, so I can't say for sure how such a batch would turn out, but if you really have an itch to make the formula without waiting for your glycerin, you may just have to try conducting the experiment for us- and then let us know how it goes in this thread, which, by the way, has turned into an awesome pioneering-type thread with lots of different experiments being conducted! I love it!

Having said that, if you go back and take a look at post #103 in this thread, you'll see where I conducted an experiment with this recipe by using part water and part glycerin to make the paste, instead of using all-glycerin as I normally do. And in post #111, I report my results from the experiment. I think I am actually going to make this formula that way from now on because it was so much easier and quicker to dissolve the KOH in water.


IrishLass

 

[pdeshpan]

Today, I made first liquid soap by looking into the soaping 101 video. Used sunflower oil instead of olive oil. 3oz koh, 6oz glycerin, 13oz sunflower oil, 1.5oz castor oil and 1.5 oz coconut oil. The koh mixed in the glycerin was not melted fully when I mixed in the hot oil. In previous one post Irishlass had described that we just need to wait for 1-6 hours to fully saponify. I have kept the mixture on double boiler for 1.5 hours and still my water test is cloudy little bit.
I have some questions

When should I add the water for distillation?
How much water should I add?
Soap calc says I should add 15.5 grams of Fragrance oil. How much should I add? Should I add after dilution? If that is the case, when will that 15.5 grams of fragrance oil saponify?

 

[Susie]

It probably will never be clear. Close as I can figure it, you used 13% superfat. Did you run the recipe through Soapcalc with the changed oils, and the lye changed to KOH and 90% purity checked? If so, what superfat did you use?

Fragrance oils do not saponify.

(Can anyone give me a stupid easy way to copy a Soapcalc page to show here?)

 

[pdeshpan]

I have not added any superfat. On the PH testing strips it measures 10. I just followed the soapcalc 101 video.

 

[Susie]

But you changed the oils. Each oil has its own saponification value that is different than other oils. The saponification value is how many grams of lye(KOH or NaOH) you need to change one gram of oil to soap. When you change an oil, you must recalculate.

For example:

Olive oil(which should have been 13 oz) has a KOH SAP value of 0.188

Sunflower oil has a KOH SAP value of 0.192

So, it takes more KOH to saponify Sunflower Oil than Olive oil. This is why we use lye calculators.

Unless you bought the plastic lab quality pH strips, you can't trust them.

 

[pdeshpan]

I realize my mistake now. Can I add more lye to the gel now and repair it? One more question, if I use soapcalc then can I substitute glycerin to water? Soapcalc.net does not talk about Glycerin.

 

[DeeAnna]

The concepts of superfat and lye discount are very important in soaping. If you are not familiar with these terms and how to use them, you may want to do more studying before your next batch.

As far as subbing sunflower for olive, the sap values for these two oils are about the same. It was a happy accident that blindly substituting one for the other ended up not changing the lye amount. You got away with it ... this time! Next time, please take Susie's advice -- always use a soap calculator to double check how much lye is needed for the oils you are really going to use.

Susie is also right about the superfat being much too high -- about 15%. This means the soap will remain cloudy or even separate. The superfat needs to be 3% or less at the proper KOH purity.

And that brings me to my next point --

The recipe used in the Soaping 101 video is in error -- it is based on using KOH at 100% purity. KOH is not usually 100% pure -- most likely the KOH you used was more like 90% pure. This is another reason to always double check every recipe before making soap with it -- we all make mistakes sometimes.

Last but not least, never add undissolved lye particles to oils when making soap. Keep stirring until the particles are fully dissolved. If you simply cannot get all of the particles dissolved, then remove the particles with a stainless steel (not aluminum) strainer when you pour the lye to the oils. Don't just pour everything into the batter.