Soaping 101 liquid soapmaking video?

[Susie]

You can spray the foam with rubbing alcohol to dissipate it faster if you like.

You did not mention if you zap tested it.

My liquid soaps vary from light amber to dark honey depending on what methods and ingredients I use. Then sometimes I color the soap, so that affects the color outcome also. Don't worry so much about the color, it could have been overheated a bit. It happens.

 

[shaan]

No i did not zap test it..i just diluted some paste in water..it was clear so i added water,and mixed it rapidly with a whisk when the paste was soft..yes i think i over heated it..and overcooked..but atleast it looks like a liquid soap..m happy.. thanx everyone!

 

[Susie]

Shaan-you need to either zap test or phenolpthalien test your paste before dilution. You can't produce safe liquid soap without some sort of definitive test. Period. I know the thought of sticking a bit of lather to your tongue is frightening at first, but it is just not that bad.

 

[shaan]

Ok..i will keep that in mind from next time..this one is already diluted and i think zap test is of no use now.

 

[Stacy]

Thank you ladies , then I need to look somewhere else,
anyone knows who carry it in Canada?

I was going to as about the 20 too, but you got there first!

If you still need it:

https://www.voyageursoapandcandle.com/Polysorbate_80_p/62488.htm

 

[Dahila]

thank you Stacy, I ordered and also the BMTS-50 and it will be shipped on Monday What an irony. For the shipping charges from saffire blue I pay like 15 backs and they are 50 km from my house. For shipping from Vancouver which is across the country is 10.99 ) They have supplies a bit more expensive but they have it
I checked a month ago and they were out of it, they had only 20. I have 250 ml of 20, what the heck I am going to use it for?

 

[shaan]

I have tried a fourth batch, using this recipe-
Coconut oil-30%
Canola oil-20%
Castor oil-10%
Olive oil-30%
Sunflower oil-10%
This fourth time too i did not see any flying bubbles.
I mix lye with glycerin..bring to boil..add it to warm oils...keep mixing with whisk.. it turns to slightly opaque in about 5 mins.then transparent again with some bubbles on top and then thick suddenly in a paste form..i always get stuck at this point..i did zap test it was good..then i think no flying bubbles and not transparent honey like..very sticky..so i cook more..then when i use it to wash my hair,it does not rinse the oil in my hair well..even after using it twice or thrice..but when i use it on body,its drying with no foam..where am i going wrong?

 

[Soap Techniques]

Got the SL in finally. Added 2% to 4 oz room temp LGS just to test if it would thicken room temp soap. Gently shook the bottle for about 30 seconds, then walked off to water herbs. Came back 10 minutes later to thick honey consistency soap. This stuff is amazing!

Susie, DeeAnna, wouldn't the addition of sodium lactate to a potassium soap produce the sodium soap and potassium lactate? :?:
I'm not sure but I think that sodium ions (Na+), regardless of whether they come from table salt, or SL, or NaOH, will replace the potassium ions (K+), at least partially, thus making the soap thicker. Am I mistaken?

 

[Susie]

I'm going to have to defer that to our resident chemistry guru, DeeAnna.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...wouldn't the addition of sodium lactate to a potassium soap produce the sodium soap and potassium lactate..."

Table salt (NaCl) is the sodium salt of hydrochloric acid (HCl), a strong acid, and sodium hydroxide, a strong alkali. Because of its fire-and-brimstone parents, table salt is highly ionic, meaning it dissociates quickly and completely into sodium (Na+) and chloride (Cl-) ions when dissolved in water.

Sodium lactate is the sodium salt of lactic acid, a weak acid, and sodium hydroxide, a strong akali. Because of its weak acid daddy, sodium lactate is a milder mannered salt than table salt. Only some sodium lactate dissociates (breaks apart) into sodium ions and lactate ions when it's dissolved in water.

A chemist's shorthand way of explaining this difference between different salts is the word "buffer". Sodium lactate is a buffer. Table salt is not a buffer. (For the record, soap is a potassium (K) or sodium (Na) salt, and it also is a buffer.)

I realize that we're not exactly dissolving either salt in just water, but the basic principles still apply if soap is added to the system. The degree of substitution depends on the ionic nature of the particular sodium salt. The more ionic a sodium salt is, the more it will break apart, and the more substitution you'll see when this salt is mixed with a potassium soap. The more the salt does not break apart -- in other words, if it acts more as a buffer -- the less substitution you'll see.

The bottom line is there might be some substitution of Na for the K in liquid soap if you added sodium lactate to the LS, but the substitution will be weaker than if you added table salt, all other things being equal.

 

[IrishLass]

I have tried a fourth batch, using this recipe-
Coconut oil-30%
Canola oil-20%
Castor oil-10%
Olive oil-30%
Sunflower oil-10%
This fourth time too i did not see any flying bubbles.
I mix lye with glycerin..bring to boil..add it to warm oils...keep mixing with whisk.. it turns to slightly opaque in about 5 mins.then transparent again with some bubbles on top and then thick suddenly in a paste form..i always get stuck at this point..i did zap test it was good..then i think no flying bubbles and not transparent honey like..very sticky..so i cook more..then when i use it to wash my hair,it does not rinse the oil in my hair well..even after using it twice or thrice..but when i use it on body,its drying with no foam..where am i going wrong?

Shaan, don't worry if you haven't seen flying bubbles. Although flying bubbles are a very good visible sign of saponification taking place, there are other signs to show that saponification is taking place when no flying bubbles are present. The most obvious of those signs is when the mixture turns into thick, sticky paste.

You can be sure that things are proceeding along just fine when your soap suddenly becomes thick paste, even if you haven't noticed any flying bubbles.

And don't worry if the paste is not transparent honey. It's perfectly okay if it's more whitish and opaque. That happens sometimes, and it's nothing to be concerned about. If my own experience is anything to go by, it will become more transparent when diluted.

Once it has reached the paste stage and has tested negative for 'zap', there's no need to cook the soap any further, unless you are going to add water to the paste in order to dilute it into liquid soap form.

Did you dilute the paste with water into liquid soap form before using it on your hair?


IrishLass

 

[Soap Techniques]

The bottom line is there might be some substitution of Na for the K in liquid soap if you added sodium lactate to the LS, but the substitution will be weaker than if you added table salt, all other things being equal.

Thank you for the explanation, DeeAnna!

 

[Susie]

I don't really like using my liquid soap as shampoo. I just find it difficult to perfect and it seems to clean the hair too much and the scalp not enough(picky, aren't I?). I much prefer using shampoo bars. But off the top of my head on your recipe, I would ask what your superfat is, and you need to choose ONE use for that soap, as shampoo will need a different recipe than liquid hand soap.

 

[shaan]

Yes IrishLass, i diluted with 75% water..i used your recipe of 65% olive, 25% coconut, 10% castor.. and the above mentioned recipe..i have to use a lot of these liquid soaps to make my hair clean..

Susie, i apply oil at night, then wash it the next morning.. or else my hair would get too dry,straw like..i used shampoo bar,it was again too drying..i liked the liquid soap more..i got the same response from my family members who used both bar and liquid soap.. now if i want to make a liquid shampoo that can clean well with less soap used, what should i do? I used 3% superfat in both, used glycerin method..To make it more cleansing, yet not stripping off natural oils, i increased the amount of coconut oil in recipe, but nothing much happened.. i dont want to use sulphates.. i used a little DL panthenol as well.

 

[aprilprichard]

I've been using the glycerin method to make my liquid soap for 2 years now and I really love it. I have 2 different formulas that I use and I dilute them in such a way that they both come out nice and thick (as thick as honey). The cool thing with the glycerin method (from what I've been told from those that use Failor's method) is that you have better control over the thickness of your finished soap with the glycerin method. I've never used Failor's method, but I can vouch that it's not hard at all to get a thick liquid soap with the glycerin method. Over at the Dish forum they have a looooooong glycerin liquid soap thread (it's a huge thread with a bazillion pages....well, maybe not a gazillion, but close enough! lol), and that's where I learned how to make it.

I make mine differently than Susie. I dissolve my lye in glycerin. Basically, I mix the KOH and glycerin when they are both at room temp, bring them to a boil together, and simmer and stir until all the lye is dissolved and all is clear. It takes less than 10 minutes for me. Some people heat the glycerin before adding the KOH, but that can cause sputtering and hissing, so that's why I do it the way I do (which goes very smoothly for me). Then I dump the lye/glycerin solution into my pre-melted oils and whisk the mixture (off heat) until I see tiny little bubbles flying/floating up in the air around my head (about 10 to 12 minutes max). Then I cover (still off heat) and leave it alone to let it do it's thing while I busy myself with other things. Usually, in about 6 hours, it's paste. Then I dilute with only enough water as needed to get it to the thickness I like. That's just a bare-bones outline of my procedure, but I can be more detailed if you wish.


IrishLass

When you cover and leave alone to do its thing, is the soap off heat at that point? Cold process method? I'm trying to learn as much as possible before I try LS. I had seen some say Failors method isn't the easiest, but I bought her book anyway





Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making Forum App....love this app!

 

[IrishLass]

Hi April!

I leave it alone completely off the heat.

IrishLass

 

[Susie]

When you cover and leave alone to do its thing, is the soap off heat at that point? Cold process method? I'm trying to learn as much as possible before I try LS. I had seen some say Failors method isn't the easiest, but I bought her book anyway





Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making Forum App....love this app!

I have her book also. Her methods are why I went looking for an easier way to make soap. But, I did use her oils and ran them through a lye calculator for an appropriate amount of KOH and water. Some of her recipes are great, just not all the neutralization and stuff we can avoid by using a good lye calculator with a superfat of 0-3%.

 

[CookbookChef]

Hello, I was reading thru some of the Liquid Soap Threads on this forum, and learned allot. I was able to fully successfully make liquid soap by following Irishlass and her directions. I diluted my soap at .75%. Thank you for that Irishlass. Ok, saying that, I started with 29 Ounces of Soap paste so .75% Distilled water added to the soap paste was 21.75 ounces of water added or in grams is (616 Grams).

I copied the following "soap math" from the chicken in the road forum because I needed it to help out with what I write below this soap math statement.

Soap Math
If you have trouble with all this soapy math (I do), here’s a tip. If you want to figure ounces for anything that’s in pounds, change the pounds to ounces (multiply the pounds by 16). To find a percent of anything, move the decimal two places to the left and multiply it. 2% = .02. Pounds times 16 times the percent (in a decimal). For example, say you want to fragrance six pounds of liquid soap at two percent. What is two percent of six pounds? 6 times 16 equals 96, and 96 times .02 equals 1.92 ounces. You’d add 2 ounces of fragrance.

So, in my first statement above where I talk about diluting the IrishLass recipe and I did this at .75%, I guess that was really 75%...right? Because I found out thru soap math research, that to find the percentage for soapy math, I move the decimal point two places to the left. I do believe that Irishlass had already done this and when she said dilute the soap paste weight by .75%, I do believe she moved the decimal point over to the left already. I could be wrong, but at .75%, that makes a lovely liquid soap, that is thick like honey. Where as if I would of taken the .75% and moved the decimal point two places to the left, that would mean.0075% and that would only mean adding to my 29 ounces of soap paste .21 ounces of water or only a total of 6 Grams. Ya, so, that doesn't sound right at all. So, I am assuming that Irishlass meant dilute the soap paste at 75% and the .75% she noted is correct. If I am wrong please help me to understand better by informing me, if you would be so kind

So, when people talk about adding one part paste to one part water, that would be 100% Dilution?
And when soaping101.com Video for making liquid soap, she states we should weigh the soap paste and times it by 3 to know how much water to add. That then would be 300% Dilution, right?

I just want to make sure I am getting this right as SOME places online state to dilute at 30% or 40% and I wanted to understand exactly what that ment. But it seems to me, that the .75% or (75%) that Irishlass stated to use, would be the minimum somone would even really ever go...otherwise, I think it would be just paste, and not a liquid. Just saying. I was reading on a forum today that talked about doing a dilution rate between 20% to 40% and this just did not make sence to me at all. I am refering to the chicken in the road forum on diluting liquid soap:
http://chickensintheroad.com/house/crafts/how-to-make-liquid-soap/#comment-167896

She states the following:
"Dilution:
Use soft or distilled water to dilute your paste. Here is a dilution table showing percent of soap and percent of water added per pound of paste.
For 15 percent soap — 48 ounces water (3 pounds) added per pound of paste
20 percent — 32 ounces (2 pounds)
25 percent — 22 ounces (1 pound 6 ounces)
30 percent — 16 ounces (1 pound)
35 percent — 12 ounces
40 percent — 9 ounces
Soaps made from 100 percent coconut oil will dilute at 40 percent (though that would be a very drying soap). You will have a hard time getting a recipe with any significant amount of olive oil to dilute at anything other than 20 percent. I started out trying all of my recipes at 30 percent. If a soap doesn’t dilute in a reasonable period of time (several hours) then you’re probably at the wrong dilution rate. A soap that isn’t going to dilute at your current dilution rate will start forming a layer on top. No matter how many times you break it up, it will keep layering."

Maybe I was reading he page wrong, but it just did not make sense to me. She has percentages listed that just seem not right. To me, I take the soap paste, and dilute it with a certain percentage of water, but it would seem like she takes water, and concentrates it with a certain percentage of soap paste..I could be wrong, It was very hard for me to understand exactly what she was saying anyway.
Ok, well at least I THINK I Understand what Irishlass stated, that I should start with a dilution of .75% which I THINK she meant a dilution rate of 75% and then she had already done the soap math for us, and so we would not have to move the decimal two places to the left. That is how I understood her statement to be. Again, If this is wrong, please let me know. As you can see, I am truly trying to understand all of this and get it right.
Thank you, CookbookChef

 

[Susie]

Please take a deep breath. Again. I can help you skip all of that.

Every soap I have ever made has taken a bit different dilution. Writing down the dilution rate of the previous batch only gives you a place to start. Any time I make a different recipe, I start with half the paste weight in water. Sometimes this is all I need. Sometimes I need as high as a 1:1.5 ratio. But each batch seems to need something different.

It is true that coconut oil soaps take less water to dilute than olive oil. I think the percentages on CITR are incorrect(as are the dilution rates on SBM calculator.) I have yet to have any soap follow those "rules". So I stopped trying to make them work for me. I don't want my soap to be diluted with any more water than it needs to dilute, and that is what was happening over and over with me trying to follow the "rules". Hand made liquid soap is quite thin enough without adding unnecessary water.

My rule of thumb is any new recipe gets started with half the paste weight in water and then add water in smaller amounts until I get down to just a small glob or two. I do write down the dilution amount on the recipe sheet to refer to in the future. Saves lots of time.

 

[DeeAnna]

It's either 75% or 0.75. Either one means the same thing.

Do not combine the decimal number and the percentage number together and write 0.75% when you mean 75% or 0.75. The value 0.75% means an entirely different thing than 75% or 0.75.

***

Susie has a very good method for diluting LS, and I encourage you to use it. Then when you write the dilution down in your notes so you know where to begin if you make that recipe again, I suggest you write the dilution down using words similar to any one of these 3 examples:

"For every 10 ounces of soap paste, add 7.5 ounces of water."
Or
"For every 1 ounce of soap paste, add 0.75 ounces of water."
Or
"Dilute 1 part paste with 0.75 parts water."

Or something like that. Every sentence means the same thing -- pick the one that makes the most sense. You would replace the 7.5 or 0.75 numbers with the actual amount of water you used to dilute the paste for your particular recipe.

This gets you away from ratios and percentages and the confusion they cause. I'm comfortable with math, and even I get really confused when people write about LS dilution, because there are many ways to say the same thing. And many ways to say it incorrectly, which is worse!