Soap traces too quick for my liking

[Sudsmaster]

Thanks everyone. Solid information. @GemstonePony I see what you mean about Amazon FOs. Thanks for suggesting Elements B&B. $7.99 for 4 oz is not bad at all and I like the "No acceleration, seizing or ricing" claim. @TheGecko I'll try the same recipe again with new Vanilla FO and watch my stick work.

 

[AliOop]

Just remember that any FO with vanillin (including a Vanilla FO) will discolor your soap - anywhere from tan to very dark brown.

If you want to avoid that, you need to add a vanilla stabilizer to your oils. There are threads here about how to make your own, or you can buy it premade.

Also, going back your your original post, even tiny amounts of any EO that contains eugenol can dramatically speed up trace or even cause your soap to seize. That includes cinnamon, clove, and nutmeg, to name the most common culprits.

 

[Sudsmaster]

@AliOop thanks for the advice, but for this particular recipe, tan to dark brown is the color I'm going for.

You also bring up an interesting topic. I've seen a few threads on this site that talk about EOs and FOs that speed up acceleration, cause seizing and ricing, etc. I wonder if we could have a dedicated thread that lists just EOs and FOs and the problems the can cause when making C.P. soap. The basics are pretty well known, clove, cinnamon, basil, etc. I've use real Jasmine E.O. and my soap mix seized up on my quicker than normal. Just a thought. I don't know if we could use an excel sheet that could be added to by multiple members on this site. Or if we could just create a table and then if anyone has one they'd like to add, just quote the post before it and add their line:

Name​	Essential Oil / Fragrance Oil​	Problems​	Additional Comments​
Clove	E.O.	accelerates trace, can cause seizing	contains eugenol

Just a thought.

 

[AliOop]

You might want to check out this thread, which explains how to access and use the SMF Fragrance Review spreadsheet.

 

[Sudsmaster]

As a sucker for science, I wanted to see what would happen if I did the exact same recipe from my Feb 23rd post on this thread (with the Vanilla FO) but with a lower amount of stick blender time. Below are the photo results. Same loaves, just different angles. The left (darker) loaf you can see the first recipe from a week ago, too much stick time. It seized up quick and I had to slop most of the mix into the mold. The right loaf was the exact same recipe (down to the tenth of a gram) but two short 2 second burst with the stick blender and about 20 seconds total time hand stirring with the stick blender. After that, I poured most of it into the mold real smooth, then stopped to get the rest out with the spatula. I think I still used a little too much stick blender because you can see the line on the right loaf where the most of the mix was smooth, and at very early trace when it went into the mold, but the rest had already begun to seize a little and had to be "helped" into the mold. Plus the right loaf didn't crack at the top. So, I need to reduce my stick time a bit (well, really get better Vanilla FO), but proof positive that the amount of stick time can have a big effect on trace time.

 

[Albertina]

@AliOop thanks for the advice, but for this particular recipe, tan to dark brown is the color I'm going for.

You also bring up an interesting topic. I've seen a few threads on this site that talk about EOs and FOs that speed up acceleration, cause seizing and ricing, etc. I wonder if we could have a dedicated thread that lists just EOs and FOs and the problems the can cause when making C.P. soap. The basics are pretty well known, clove, cinnamon, basil, etc. I've use real Jasmine E.O. and my soap mix seized up on my quicker than normal. Just a thought. I don't know if we could use an excel sheet that could be added to by multiple members on this site. Or if we could just create a table and then if anyone has one they'd like to add, just quote the post before it and add their line:

Name​	Essential Oil / Fragrance Oil​	Problems​	Additional Comments​
Clove	E.O.	accelerates trace, can cause seizing	contains eugenol

Just a thought.

I find this a brilliant Idea. I couldn't find much in the link to the thread on FO. Personally I use Essential Oils. And I too noticed how much nutmeg, or even cinnamon, traces my emulsion quickly.

 

[Albertina]

@AliOop thanks for the advice, but for this particular recipe, tan to dark brown is the color I'm going for.

You also bring up an interesting topic. I've seen a few threads on this site that talk about EOs and FOs that speed up acceleration, cause seizing and ricing, etc. I wonder if we could have a dedicated thread that lists just EOs and FOs and the problems the can cause when making C.P. soap. The basics are pretty well known, clove, cinnamon, basil, etc. I've use real Jasmine E.O. and my soap mix seized up on my quicker than normal. Just a thought. I don't know if we could use an excel sheet that could be added to by multiple members on this site. Or if we could just create a table and then if anyone has one they'd like to add, just quote the post before it and add their line:

Name​	Essential Oil / Fragrance Oil​	Problems​	Additional Comments​
Clove	E.O.	accelerates trace, can cause seizing	contains eugenol

Just a thought.

Hi Talispa, I've experienced trace acceleration also with ginger EO, Basil EO, Nutmeg EO and Bay laurel (leaves and berries) all of which contain Eugenol.

Your idea is a great one and triggered me to do some more research (which is definitely not easy since everything and the opposite of everything is found about EO in general, and strangely enough also the biochemical composition is at times different according to different sources.

I would like to know if anyone experienced problems with Vanilla FO.

 

[Sudsmaster]

I find this a brilliant Idea. I couldn't find much in the link to the thread on FO. Personally I use Essential Oils. And I too noticed how much nutmeg, or even cinnamon, traces my emulsion quickly.

@Albertina I agree, when I started I was a E.O. guy all the way, but Vanilla E.O. really doesn't exist. Well, it does, but it's one of those "Absolutes" that gets diluted with jojoba or is crazy expensive for a little 5 ml bottle. I like to mix and swirl different colors in my soap sometimes too, but that proved to be difficult with Jasmine E.O. It didn't give me enough time to pour in different colors at different rates and mix my colors the way I like.

 

[Albertina]

@Albertina I agree, when I started I was a E.O. guy all the way, but Vanilla E.O. really doesn't exist. Well, it does, but it's one of those "Absolutes" that gets diluted with jojoba or is crazy expensive for a little 5 ml bottle. I like to mix and swirl different colors in my soap sometimes too, but that proved to be difficult with Jasmine E.O. It didn't give me enough time to pour in different colors at different rates and mix my colors the way I like.

Thank you for your report. I am keeping a journal on all the addings, EO, FO, powders, and other random things that make the mixture difficult to pour into the mold, or trace too quickly or completely seize. I might make a post once I have enough information or give it to one of our forum experts to edit it into a nice post.