soap feels drying

[Nite Hawk]

I have a question, I have had different outcomes when making soap and I am not sure why, maybe someone out there has an idea. I have had some soap turn out fine and some turn out on the drying side even though I am using basically the same recipe, and a mild-conditioning recipe to boot.
I know I have had problems with the scale, and am in the process of buying a new one. However, because it is a long weekend and most everything is closed, I am going to have to wait a few more days.
I have tried to weigh everything very carefully sometimes several times, so I can have accurate results.
It seems that when you first wash with some of the soap it has a softening and moisturising effect, and then a few minutes later, you hands feel ‘’dryish".
I know my skin doesn’t like too much Olive oil, and gets a "dryish" feeling after using,
so I keep that ingredient on the low side of things.
I am wondering if it is not aged enough, or too much.
It seems that in general the older the soap gets( like months} it seems like it doesn’t moisturise as well.
I know too much coconut oil will dry as well, but I am not using very much of that, either.
I know this last batch hasn’t sat very long- only 2 weeks, but there isn’t any lye zap left, so I tried it just to see what it was like. It lathered well, and seemed moist enough, and then after drying my hands it seemed to get that "dryish" slightly chapping sensation.
I went through soap calc, to get the lye portions and everything figured out.
Would like to see what you folks think of the recipe..
Water-12.1oz
Lye-4.4oz
No fragrance
Castor oil-3.2oz
Cocoa butter-2.2oz
Coconut oil-2.8oz
Olive oil—4.1oz
PKO-5.4oz
Palm oil-3.8oz
Sunflower oil—10.2 oz
1-1/2 TBLSP sugar
1-1/2 tsp salt
Any thoughts??
Thanks

 

[artemis]

My prediction is that everyone is going to say 1. Soap doesn't moisturize and 2. That soap is too young.

 

[Susie]

Did you recently move to a new area? I ask because my wonderful soap now makes my skin feel dry and chapped. It is because I moved to a hard water area.

 

[SoapAddict415]

I'm​ always testing my soap after a few days. I know it isn't ready, I'm just excited about my newest batch. Soap that new usually appears to be more moisturizing, but that's because it's still going through saponification (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Soap continues to change as it ages so soap that's 2 weeks old will feel different at 2 months old and 2 years old. Maybe you could try increasing your superfat by 1-2% and waiting​ 4-6 weeks or longer for it to cure.

 

[Obsidian]

Your coconut amount might be low but your PKO is higher and its also a drying oil like coconut. I would switch things around a bit to lower the cleansing and balance out the soap a bit more.

Try this recipe but only make 1 lb. No need to make big batches when testing new recipes.

palm oil 35%
PKO 10%
coconut 10%
cocoa butter 10%
sunflower 30%
castor 5%

Also, soap isn't moisturising. All it does is clean, the trick is to find a recipe that doesn't clean you too much. 2 week old soap is too young, Curing soap is about more than being zap free. As soap ages, its chemical composition changes and it becomes milder, do yourself a favor and cure your soap at least 4 weeks, 8 is better.

 

[artemis]

Also, soap isn't moisturising. All it does is clean, the trick is to find a recipe that doesn't clean you too much. 2 week old soap is too young,

I think I might be psychic [emoji6]

 

[Nite Hawk]

I wondered if the soap might be "too green" so to speak at 2 weeks..

I find that our water becomes very slightly harder during the winter months, even sometimes leaving a small bit of calcium stain on the dishes. The calcium staining goes away during the summer months. Still isn't hard though compared to many folks water...
We are not the only ones around here who's water tends to change during the winter months, not sure why that happens...

Ran the recipe though soap calc, and it said that the cleansing was at 14.
How low can one go on the cleansing scale before running into trouble?

As far as moisturizing goes--maybe the moisturizing isn't the proper term, but good homemade soap DEFINATELY softens my skin, and even the kids notice. Maybe it is the
glycerin in the soap.

Also, remember that if one leaves a lot of different types of chemicals on ones skin for about 27 seconds, it is began to be absorbed into the body and blood stream. So one might want to take notice what kind of skin care products one uses
I am convinced that soap can have an effect on ones skin, as often in the shower one lathers up all over before beginning rinsing, and unless one is on "fast forward"
I am sure that often soap in in place for the approximately 27 seconds...

 

[BattleGnome]

Have you tried adding citric acid? If this formula has worked before then maybe it is a simple hard water issue, especially if you notice a distinct difference in the water based on the season.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I didn't see a chelator in your recipe. Have a look at the threads about adding citric acid and more lye to make sodium citrate (or get some sodium citrate, but many people have citric acid or can find it in the shops)

 

[lenarenee]

I wondered if the soap might be "too green" so to speak at 2 weeks..

I find that our water becomes very slightly harder during the winter months, even sometimes leaving a small bit of calcium stain on the dishes. The calcium staining goes away during the summer months. Still isn't hard though compared to many folks water...
We are not the only ones around here who's water tends to change during the winter months, not sure why that happens...

Ran the recipe though soap calc, and it said that the cleansing was at 14.
How low can one go on the cleansing scale before running into trouble?

As far as moisturizing goes--maybe the moisturizing isn't the proper term, but good homemade soap DEFINATELY softens my skin, and even the kids notice. Maybe it is the
glycerin in the soap.

Also, remember that if one leaves a lot of different types of chemicals on ones skin for about 27 seconds, it is began to be absorbed into the body and blood stream. So one might want to take notice what kind of skin care products one uses
I am convinced that soap can have an effect on ones skin, as often in the shower one lathers up all over before beginning rinsing, and unless one is on "fast forward"
I am sure that often soap in in place for the approximately 27 seconds...

Glycerin is wonderful stuff!

You can worry a little less about how much the skin absorbs from topical exposure. Despite the abundance of bloggers stating otherwise, biologists, dermatologists, etc. have taught me that its simply not true. The integumentary system's function is as a barrier; the enzymes and proteins embedded in the phospholipid bilayer of the cellular membrane are very picky about what they let into a cell.

The medicinal patches? They contain very specific ingredient/ingredients that facilitate absorption from the skin. Emu oil can be one of them. There is very little or NO absorption otherwise.

Think of this: if our skin did absorb as much as "they" say - then we'd drown in the shower. We'd also be sloshing around with bodies flooded with oils from lotions, be able to blow bubble by simply exhaling because of all the soap we'd absorbed - and also be filled with dirt, fabric fibers and dust particles that collect on our skin in the course of a day.

Our skin does protect us a lot.

 

[Obsidian]

You can go down to 0 on cleansing and still get clean.

Cleansing is a poor term, it should be called stripping instead. All soap cleans, some are just more stripping than others.

I like to keep my cleansing number between 10 & 15, sometimes even that is a bit much during the winter but I have dry skin to start with.

 

[penelopejane]

I wondered if the soap might be "too green" so to speak at 2 weeks.

Ran the recipe though soap calc, and it said that the cleansing was at 14.
How low can one go on the cleansing scale before running into trouble?

Also, remember that if one leaves a lot of different types of chemicals on ones skin for about 27 seconds, it is began to be absorbed into the body and blood stream. So one might want to take notice what kind of skin care products one uses
I am convinced that soap can have an effect on ones skin, as often in the shower one lathers up all over before beginning rinsing, and unless one is on "fast forward"
I am sure that often soap in in place for the approximately 27 seconds...

What sort of olive oil are you using?
Pomace is chemically extracted and is different in soap compared to olive oil.

I agree with you that there is a lot of scientific evidence to support transdermal transfer of substances. I have experienced a reaction to soap containing EOs (fainting, headaches and dizziness) after one shower. Caffeine, to mention one, is easily absorbed through the skin.
https://www.cape.ca/children/derm2.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15478443

The cleansing value in the soap calculators really do not reflect the cleansing value of a soap. Forget the numbers and work on your recipe.
Wait longer before you assess a soap.

 

[psfred]

Less PKO plus coconut may help (replace with palm I think), but you may just have skin that doesn't like hard water and "high cleansing" soap.

Add sodium citrate or EDTA -- either will help with the hard water issue. Hard water makes soap scum, and many people find that "tacky" on their skin. Hard water contains a lot of calcium and magnesium ions, and they exchange with the sodium (or potassium) in soap. Unfortunately, the calcium and magnesium salts precipitate. Sink rings on your skin, so to speak. Not nice.

And I concur with curing the soap longer -- mine have improved quite a bit after six or eight weeks.

 

[Nite Hawk]

The stories that I have been told is that when one gets their cleansing numbers waaaaay
down the soap becomes a "grease glob".
Now I don't know if that is true or not, never had the guts to try it...
So you figure that if I get the PKO and coconut in the 9--12 % range instead of the 17 % range it should mild the soap down??
About the EOs, a lot of the EOs are not pure, they have additives in them and clearly say on the bottle for aromatherapy only.
From what I have hear the young living EOs are pure, with no additives and supposedly there is less chance of reactions the purer the oils are..
I do not use pomace Olive oil, just regular OO.. but for some reason my skin don't like high volumes, makes my skin feel "gritty-dry"....
might just start leaving it to all together..
Has anyone had problems with sunflower oil doing "funny" things to their skin??
thanks...

 

[artemis]

Now I don't know if that is true or not, never had the guts to try it...

Oh, try it! Just do a small batch. What could go wrong?

 

[Obsidian]

Low cleansing number will not make your soap into a greasy glob. 100% olive oil soaps have a 0 cleansing number and they are perfectly good, hard bars.

I don't like OO in high amount either, in fact I don't like any high oleic oil at more then 30%.

My standard recipe is only 25% OO or whatever liquid oil I'm using. I'm testing a recipe now that doesn't have any liquid oil, just lard, coconut and castor.

 

[penelopejane]

The stories that I have been told is that when one gets their cleansing numbers waaaaay
down the soap becomes a "grease glob".
Now I don't know if that is true or not, never had the guts to try it...
So you figure that if I get the PKO and coconut in the 9--12 % range instead of the 17 % range it should mild the soap down??
About the EOs, a lot of the EOs are not pure, they have additives in them and clearly say on the bottle for aromatherapy only.
From what I have hear the young living EOs are pure, with no additives and supposedly there is less chance of reactions the purer the oils are..
I do not use pomace Olive oil, just regular OO.. but for some reason my skin don't like high volumes, makes my skin feel "gritty-dry"....
might just start leaving it to all together..
Has anyone had problems with sunflower oil doing "funny" things to their skin??
thanks...

OO soap takes a long time to cure. Eventually it makes the mildest soap. There is no use assessing young soap. The results will not be meaningful.
Cut the coconut oil and PKO out entirely wait 8 weeks then assess.

 

[psfred]

I made a soap with 80% used vegetable oil, assumed it was 50/50 canola and soy. The rest was soy wax and some coconut. Bar is fairly soft, but slowly hardening like a castile. Quite high in oleic and linoleic fatty acids.

I gave some to a friend, along with a bar of 80% lard/15% CO/5% HO safflower. He likes the used veg oil soap much better, the lard soap feels "squeaky clean" to him. I like it to, but it's a bit to "conditioning" for me, makes be feel a bit greasy after my shower.

Everyone's skin is different. Try a high oleic oil other than olive (high oleic safflower or sunflower, high oleic canola) in case it's the non-saponifiables in olive oil that's bothering you, and try some chelator.

 

[Nite Hawk]

Quote----Oh, try it! Just do a small batch. What could go wrong?
ummmmmm possibly lots!!!LOL LOL

 

[Obsidian]

yeah but thats how we learn.