Soap Calc's are decieving!

[iwannasoap]

You dont quite understand and that is the point of this thread.

From what I can understand, the OP seems to be concerned about fitting a given volume of raw soap into a mold, and excited about the fact that if you use more water in your lye solution (40% solution vs, say 50% solution), you are going to have more total volume for a given mass of oil.

That's kind of a given, yes?

The ratio of lye used is determined by the mass of oil in the recipe, not by the amount of water used. If your intention is to have end up with a dry-mass soap that has a particular superfat %, the amount of water used is irrelevant to the amount of lye used - it's your choice, so long as you aren't going to overflow your mold.

(Of course, yes, if you choose to use a certain lye solution % in order to have a particular total volume in your mold, i.e. if you prioritize the water volume above all else, that will affect the maximum amount of oil and lye you can use to fit in your mold. You'll still end up with the same dry mass of soap after a long enough cure, but if your goal is to completely fill up your mold, well, there you go. However, that volume of water will NOT affect the ratio of lye to oil).

Soap calculators are NOT misleading. You do, however, need to know what you are doing and what is being calculated and what actually matters in the end.

ETA: If I was not clear enough above - if I use 1051.77g (37.1 oz) of OO and want a 5% SF soap, I will use 133.89 g (4.72 oz) of lye. Period. That does not change. The ratio of lye to OO is 0.127:1. Period. That does not change. I can make the soap with a 40% lye solution or a 26% lye solution or a 50% lye solution - my choice will affect how much water I use in my lye solution, but will not affect how much lye is needed. However, if my 40% and 50% solutions fit my mold (water + lye + soap), but I really want to use a 26% lye solution and it has so much water in it that it will not fit my wee mold, obviously I need to have less other stuff in there in so I don't overflow my mold. So my overall mass of oil needs to be smaller. So will, therefore, the amount of lye I use need to be smaller. However, if I still want to make a 5% SF soap, the ratio of lye to oil with steadfastly remain at 0.127:1.

By the same token, when I use 1051.77g of OO and 133.89 g of oil, the final cured mass of my soap will be identical after a long enough cure (time for evaporation), regardless of whether I used a ****-ton of water, or a 50% solution. I'll just get there faster with the latter.

I am not excited about my total volume if I increase the water. That is the point of this. My point is that there is much confusion especially for new people are are just using the calculator.
My point is exactly the opposite of what your saying and water has everything to do with the amount of lye and oil that you use. That is what new people, when they are learning need to understand first!
Firstly, let me clarify something. Your soap never gets rid of all the water. EVER. I don't care if it is a year from now it will never get rid of all the water. The water it does retain NEVER turns into soap! Therefore, the more water that is added, a year from now it, may be hard, but it still will not last nearly as long as the same size bar (actually it will not be the same size because it will not lose as much weight. It will be bigger then the one made with more water) made with less water.
Why? Because if you lessened the water, that will now allow you to add more lye water and more oil which WILL turn into soap and still fit your requirement of a 50 oz loaf.
Lye calculators will only decrease your total amount to less then 50 oz or increase your total amount more then 50 oz when adjust water:lye ratios. That is wasteful and costs money. To keep it at 50 oz total you must adjust your oil amount also - Your lye will then change and you will have a greater percentage of actual soap in your bar if less water is used.
Many people are blindly only seeing what bad programming spits out and only see one side that never changes. That side they think never changes because it will only increase your total amount or decrease your total amount instead of keeping your requirement of 50 oz and adjusting the lye and oils and so people think that it never changes but it actually does if you only want 50 oz(or any specific amount).

 

[scard]

 

[toxikon]

Sounds like a lot of overthinking, and simply ADDING to any confusion a newbie might have.

If I were to give advice to a person new to soapmaking, I would simply say:

- Use the Soapee.com calculator.

- Use a "Lye Concentration" of around 25-30% to start (this means a 25% lye to 75% water solution). The lowest lye concentration you should use is 25% and the highest you can go is 50%. Higher than 40% is not advised in most situations.

- Do what you need to figure out the volume your mold can hold. Many manufacturers will list how much a mold can hold. Commonly, it could be something like 60oz.

- Go into Soapee, fill in your fields and tick the "Adjust oil weights to include water in Oils total" box, then set the Oil weight to your mold size (lets say 60oz).

Et voila... Soapee will generate the amount of oils, lye and water you need to use to fill your mold. Why overcomplicate?

 

[iwannasoap]

...
I need to add one more thing. The composition of my soap will be the exact same if I add water or didn't add water because my lye and oils adjust to the water. However, it is other soaps that will not remain the same. That will be the difference and in addition, mine will remain the same weight .../QUOTE]

The problem with that is that you're removing the very reason we choose different water concentrations in soap. They're not supposed to be the same.
The point is that they're different - different because we're making ghost swirls, different to encourage or discourage gelling, different because we want more or less working time. If the soap is exactly the same, there is no reason to change water concentration at all.

You are most definitely right and that is the part I have to learn more of. My first step of learning was quite aggravating. That first step was water usage and how it effects the amount of soap in the bar. Since water does not turn into soap it can make a sticky mess or even help freeze your soap before your pour it. Those are the exact people I am trying to show so they don't go through the same aggravation. Not to mention, many people still think that adding or reducing water does not effect you lye and oil (lye calculators do not show that part). It will if your are trying to maintain a constant total amount.

 

[MorpheusPA]

Firstly, let me clarify something. Your soap never gets rid of all the water. EVER. I don't care if it is a year from now it will never get rid of all the water. The water it does retain NEVER turns into soap! Therefore, the more water that is added, a year from now it, may be hard, but it still will not last nearly as long as the same size bar (actually it will not be the same size because it will not lose as much weight. It will be bigger then the one made with more water) made with less water.

DeeAnna has kindly done the high and low water soaps and compared weights out as they cure. The weights fall together, eventually becoming indistinguishable from each other, after two months or so. This is something I've also noticed with my high and low water soap; they come together.

While not all the water will evaporate--I tend to figure about four percent of oil weight in water will be bound into the soap crystal--the rest does evaporate over time.

Unfortunately, that established fact negates the rest of your argument.

Now if you wish to argue that the density of the low-water soap will eventually end up a bit higher due to the lower amount of water initially bound and the greater oil/lye ratio (which is more dense than water when it reacts) in a given volume...

...maybe. Alterations in measurements are also well-known, particularly for high-water soap. I'd need to sit down and spend two years or so doing the measurements to a very high degree of accuracy. I suspect that, at the end of two years, the density difference will not be appreciable and bound water will be very close to identical.

 

[Steve85569]

I. just.wasted. 10 minutes. reading. this.

OP has mis-phrased and mis-calculated the chemistry involved in such a simple thing a making soap so as to make it so complicated only a lawyer or the OP can do it correctly.

Some people will remain unteachable no matter what. It is called contempt prior to investigation. There is no cure.

I really appreciate all of the help I got when I got here and that this forum was not full of threads like this one.:headbanging::headbanging::headbanging:

 

[iwannasoap]

Sounds like a lot of overthinking, and simply ADDING to any confusion a newbie might have.

If I were to give advice to a person new to soapmaking, I would simply say:

- Use the Soapee.com calculator.

- Use a "Lye Concentration" of around 25-30% to start (this means a 25% lye to 75% water solution). The lowest lye concentration you should use is 25% and the highest you can go is 50%. Higher than 40% is not advised in most situations.

- Do what you need to figure out the volume your mold can hold. Many manufacturers will list how much a mold can hold. Commonly, it could be something like 60oz.

- Go into Soapee, fill in your fields and tick the "Adjust oil weights to include water in Oils total" box, then set the Oil weight to your mold size (lets say 60oz).

Et voila... Soapee will generate the amount of oils, lye and water you need to use to fill your mold. Why overcomplicate?

From my experience, when I used that much water, my soap froze up more often then it does now. I only use 1.1 to 1.4, and on occasion 50% water:lye, times the lye value. I would like as much soap as possible in the bar.
Secondly, if they started out like that, they will stay like that for more time then necessary to finally realize that if they play with the water they are actually increasing or decreasing the actual amount of soap that is in the bar. Once you know that very basic concept then you can create designer soap and still produce a longer lasting bar.
Thirdly, soap made with more water that does not agree with the oil type will produce a bar with less life which gives the rest of us a bad name and it is harder to sell.
As an example, a year ago I was still struggling with this concept. I used the water ratio you spoke of. The bar came out a beautiful opaque blue (cant repeat the opaque) and everything was fine. I used an expensive patchouli to scent it which would have raised the bar to $5.75 in order to get my money back. People that use it love it and the smell. I combined it with Rosemary essential oil.
My point is this - I used one, I put one in the bathroom at work (recently) I have one left and I sold the rest. Those soaps, because of the water amount in them, only lasted 3-4 weeks and although they liked them that still gave you and me a bad name just because it did not last and I made them a year ago! So, the amount of water will always effect the soap because More water = Less lye and less oil and that produces soap with less life.

 

[artemis]

From my experience, when I used that much water, my soap froze up more often then it does now. I only use 1.1 to 1.4, and on occasion 50% water:lye, times the lye value. I would like as much soap as possible in the bar.
.

I am glad you found something that works for you, and also that you have shared your work. This is now ready and waiting for any new person to find it and use the information from you and all of the people who have responded. Now that it has all been explained and saved for posterity, I suggest that we move on to other threads of interest to us all.

 

[iwannasoap]

I. just.wasted. 10 minutes. reading. this.

OP has mis-phrased and mis-calculated the chemistry involved in such a simple thing a making soap so as to make it so complicated only a lawyer or the OP can do it correctly.

Some people will remain unteachable no matter what. It is called contempt prior to investigation. There is no cure.

I really appreciate all of the help I got when I got here and that this forum was not full of threads like this one.:headbanging::headbanging::headbanging:

If your referring to my lye amounts given, your exactly right. I was calculating at 2% and I forgot to mention that, or change that value on my spreadsheet.
And, as referring to unteachable that could go either way there and I really don't understand where you think I am wrong. Enlighten me?
The point of all that in short was that a lye calc will only increase or decrease your total amount and not bother with keeping your original oil amount request (to fill your 50 oz mold) and adjust your oil and lye to fit your new water value. It is because of that oversight that people do not realize by changing one value they change all values.
Let me out it one more way. Because of this, those 5 oz bars will now only be 4 1/4 oz because it did not adjust with all of your values.
For instance, if I wanted a 60/40 lye ratio and hit the print button and now I change my mind and want a 55/45 ratio I hit the button again. From what I see nothing changes between the two and I don't learn anything. But if I break out a calculator, that total amount that I wanted has now decreased and I never realize that adjusting the water actually changes water and lye values to keep the same amount that I wanted originally. Is that where you don't understand? The importance to making long lasting soap is to understand that concept. This is the reason for this thread. I can see even you are stumped?

I haven't seen that from anybody with even minor experience--lye+oil will always be the same if the super fat is not changing. The amount of water won't influence the amount of lye one jot. (I'm including all associated lye-influencing materials in your "oil" amount, including citric acid, milk, and so on).

Changing the water does change the total recipe, of course, and it does alter the initial characteristics of the soap (long-term characteristics are, from what I've ever noted, essentially unaltered regardless of water amount).

It mostly makes a difference in initial trace speed and tendency to gel. As roundly noted, full water recipes gel pretty easily. Discounted water recipes don't, but can be forced using towels or CPOP or suppressed by putting them in the fridge or freezer.

The *** at DeeAnna wasn't a good idea; most of us learn (and have learned) a great deal from her and she most definitely isn't wrong here. The two of you aren't quite using the same vocabulary, but if you read over what I wrote, I said exactly the same thing DeeAnna did, just using different terminology and a different method of explaining it.

SoapCalc (and other calculators, including the one I whipped up for home use) aren't wrong. They're merely placing the emphasis, by default, on different constraints that you do.

That's hardly an issue, and like me, you wrote your own calculator that works better with your particular style. In fact, I may sit down and calculate and then program a batch constraint calculator. It's rare that I do so--a little overflow just goes into a guest soap mold--but it might be helpful.

If I remember right, this Deeanna person was rude to me first. I have already been told I was ignorant and didn't know anything too many times on this sight just because I am introducing something new that you might not have thought of before. Isn't that what threads are for?

Also, I couldn't exactly think of a one liner that would announce that soap calc's leave detail out. They are not wrong in the amount they tell you.
What they are wrong about is that you cannot learn that by adjusting water you are actually adjusting lye and oil (If your requirement is only X oz's).
That is an important concept to understand otherwise your just a steering wheel holder and not an actual driver. (not aimed at you personally).
Like I was trying to emphasize at the beginning of my post. This is for people learning.
One more thing. Maybe you should create something. You might see for yourself how it all works together. Yours will show the same as mine and is not directed at any particular style. It is the way it works

I think...maybe...that what you're saying is that you're constraining the batch size to 16 and allowing all the constituent amounts to change?

Whereas most of us constrain the oil weight and let everything else, change. Including the total batch weight.

In the case of most of us, with the oil weight stable (and the recipe the same), our lye weight will not change unless we change the super fat. Water, however, can go from a severe water discount all the way to full water.

In your case, with oil weights changing, the amount of lye is absolutely going to change. And with oil weights changing and lye weight changing, water weight is also going to change to make up the rest of the batch.

The consequences in both cases are normal and expected, and the most-of-us crew will produce a differing number of bars depending on our water weight. You'll produce the same, but the total composition will differ.

Neither is in error, it's merely a matter of perspective and what you constrain on your batches.

I glad you understand but many do not. You should read all the comments I am getting. Even experienced soapers apparently. This thread was for those learning and to understand that concept. Until this is understood completely and fully then your just a steering wheel holder instead of a driver! Do you know what I mean?

DeeAnna has kindly done the high and low water soaps and compared weights out as they cure. The weights fall together, eventually becoming indistinguishable from each other, after two months or so. This is something I've also noticed with my high and low water soap; they come together.

While not all the water will evaporate--I tend to figure about four percent of oil weight in water will be bound into the soap crystal--the rest does evaporate over time.

Unfortunately, that established fact negates the rest of your argument.

Now if you wish to argue that the density of the low-water soap will eventually end up a bit higher due to the lower amount of water initially bound and the greater oil/lye ratio (which is more dense than water when it reacts) in a given volume...

...maybe. Alterations in measurements are also well-known, particularly for high-water soap. I'd need to sit down and spend two years or so doing the measurements to a very high degree of accuracy. I suspect that, at the end of two years, the density difference will not be appreciable and bound water will be very close to identical.

It cannot be and it is impossible.
Firstly, oil does not evaporate like you said. Maybe that was a typo. At least not like water.
Secondly, I believe you were also saying that it does retain some water (If I'm hearing you right) and I believe you and say the same thing.
But however, that water will never turn into soap it will be just wasted space in your bar. It may or may not weigh the same as one made with less water (not going there but I bet it will weigh less) simply because water and oil cannot occupy the same space. Oil is what turns into soap and soap weighs more then water so therefore a 5 oz soap made with more oils and lye will actually weigh more then a 5 oz bar made with water if weighed a year later. Just impossible that water weighs more then soap. Not going to happen. Water will never turn into soap but yet you say they are the same and they are not.

 

[iwannasoap]

DeeAnna has kindly done the high and low water soaps and compared weights out as they cure. The weights fall together, eventually becoming indistinguishable from each other, after two months or so. This is something I've also noticed with my high and low water soap; they come together.

While not all the water will evaporate--I tend to figure about four percent of oil weight in water will be bound into the soap crystal--the rest does evaporate over time.

Unfortunately, that established fact negates the rest of your argument.

Now if you wish to argue that the density of the low-water soap will eventually end up a bit higher due to the lower amount of water initially bound and the greater oil/lye ratio (which is more dense than water when it reacts) in a given volume...

...maybe. Alterations in measurements are also well-known, particularly for high-water soap. I'd need to sit down and spend two years or so doing the measurements to a very high degree of accuracy. I suspect that, at the end of two years, the density difference will not be appreciable and bound water will be very close to identical.

Of course her measurements fell together. She might have done the same thing many people do. As the lye calculator is changed to a lower water:lye ratio her total quantity was reduced so now it is not exactly the same size as her comparison bar. What I mean is the actual soap (oils) were not increased when she reduced her water. So therefore they will fall at the same rate. I challenge her to do it again and increase her oil values at the same time she is decreasing her water.

One more thing, I believe it is the Deeanna person where I read another response of hers. It was very helpfull and she was very helpful also. I found out something new and I most definitly copied and pasted it to use later. I just expect the same from others to recognize what they really dont know and not be so arrogant about it. I thought soapers liked to learn! I do.

Oh yea, they probably will be identical (at least at losing at the same rate. But which will stop losing weight FIRST and which will actually have more soap to last longer. Thats the real question). The watered down soaps that I made in the past simply do not last as long as the ones that I make now only because I use less water and more oil which turns into soap. And that is the case for all soap! You might produce long lasting soap but are they really as long lasting as they could be simply by reducing water and raising oil and lye?
Like I repeatedly say... Most beginners do not know this and even experianced soapers haven't recognized this by the comments I am getting. But anyway, this was for beginners becasue this was my stumbling block also.

 

[Obsidian]

I think people re understanding what you are getting at, just not the reason why it seems so important to you. You seem really hung up and keeping your batch at exactly 50 oz, in that case you will need to adjust your oils & lye if you adjust your water.

My question as why is keeping the 50 oz so precise, so important? If you keep your oils & lye the same and increase/decrease your water by a oz or two either way, its not going to make a difference in the finished, cured soap.

I have to agree you are really overthinking it. Great if it works for you but its not the normal or easy way of doing it and thats ok. What isn't ok is you acting like we are a bunch of idiots who have been making soap wrong all this time

You need to be respectful of deeanne, not only is she the smartest person on this board but she is our own resident chemist. Getting snarky with her isn't a good way to make friends here.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I've just got back from a party so I'm feeling quite free, I'm just going to put out this out there - you say you struggle with getting return customers, but many of the people who are disagreeing with you get lots of return customers. Maybe your way isn't the best way to get where you're going?

 

[iwannasoap]

I am sorry that you have misunderstood. That was not a *** at you and no where in that sentence did I direct it at you! In fact, you truly understand what I have been saying and I clearly see that. This thread was not meant for you and I believe I state that at the beginning. It was meant for people like me that had this as a stumbling block and I was blinded by what I couldn't see. Soap calcs decieve by not telling you what you just told me! Just go back and re-read the responses I am getting and you will clearly see who I wrote this thread for.
So, again, if you thought for a second I was aiming at you, then I am sorry that you misunderstood.

I seem to recall that you have the same amount of experience that I have. What is your secret.
And to answer your question, that is why I am here so why don't you tell me.

First - Never was I "Snarky" with her! Re read what I said. None of it was directed at her. I point blankly said who I was directing it too and it was not her. She just took it personally and became defensive because she thought I was "Snarky" towards her.
Hmm, You thinking that people understand might be an understatement. Go back and re read the responses carefully. This whole thing started because of what someone said and I have found she is not the only one.
Also, Try more to think about why a person says something. I am not "Stuck" on 50 oz. It was the only way to demonstrate how water effects amounts of oils and lye using a lye calculator.
Threads are created for others to learn, not to criticize or mock, if you do not feel that you learned anything and you know it all then this is not for you. This is for people, beginners, experianced soapers, to realize everything changes more then what the lye calculator tells you. It is to have more control over water and what that does exactly to your recipe. Beginners do not know this and it is an important handle to grab to grasp the whole concept of controlling everything in your recipe.

Sorry, couldn't think of a one liner.
They only show total amounts raising and lowering. They do not show lye values changing with it and so beginners do not realize this and therefore are actually missing out on the complexity until it is too late. It would have sped up my understanding if I knew this sooner then I did.

 

[MorpheusPA]

It cannot be and it is impossible.
Firstly, oil does not evaporate like you said. Maybe that was a typo. At least not like water.
Secondly, I believe you were also saying that it does retain some water (If I'm hearing you right) and I believe you and say the same thing.
But however, that water will never turn into soap it will be just wasted space in your bar. It may or may not weigh the same as one made with less water (not going there but I bet it will weigh less) simply because water and oil cannot occupy the same space. Oil is what turns into soap and soap weighs more then water so therefore a 5 oz soap made with more oils and lye will actually weigh more then a 5 oz bar made with water if weighed a year later. Just impossible that water weighs more then soap. Not going to happen. Water will never turn into soap but yet you say they are the same and they are not.

Enough. I'm so glad that you've found what you think works for you! And a great day to you and good luck in the future. Bye, now.

 

[iwannasoap]

Basically, we each have our own preferred lye concentration. Iwannasoap likes 50%, I like 33-35%, you all might like something different. Iwannasoap has his own way of working out how to fit a batch in a mold, and doesn't like the idea of excess water.

The real difference I see is his soaps won't gel. A high water soaper might choose to prevent gel with the help of a freezer. I like gel, and force it when I have to.

I feel the need to end on a cheesy note: we are all in the same boat, it'll just take some of us a little longer to dry out our shoes

Can you tell me where you get the info of low water will not gel? I would like to read it please. When I add more lye and more oil my loaf will be hotter. Up to 200 degrees. Why would that not gel? So, I really would like to read this and see where I am wrong. Please, don't misread. I'm being serious and not "Snarky" as I am accused by other people.

 

[psfred]

iwannasoap, I think you are misunderstanding the purpose of soap calculators. They exist as a convenient way to calculate lye amounts per oil amount to make a soap of a specified superfat, nothing more. It is not "deceptive" for the initial weight of the batter to vary with changes in water content, it's just the calculation done to produce the correct specified soap. If you change the inputs, the "output" will vary, and as far as I can tell (I'm a professional chemist) all the commonly referenced calculators are quite accurate.

Water evaporates, fatty acid salts and fats/oils do not, so the finished weight of the soap will be the same for any given weight of oil and lye. If you add more water, you get more weight and volume during processing, but the final cured soap weight will be only the weight of the oils used, the glycerine produced by saponification, and the sodium or potassium added as lye plus the water at equilibrium with the environment. All soap recipes contain much more water than ends up in the cured soap, and they all lose weight -- if you add more water when making it, more evaporates during cure. Final water content will be pretty much the same for any reasonable range of initial water amount used to make the soap.

Reducing the oil and lye weight to get some exact initial batch weight (or volume) will result in less soap when it's cured.

More water doesn't produce more soap, it produces the same amount of soap with more water in it, and that water will evaporate during cure.

"Gel" is the condition where a colloidal suspension of soap fatty acids forms in water, much like gelatin forms a colloidal suspension in water to make "Jello". If there is not enough water present for the soap crystals to become suspended in colloidal form, you won't get "gel phase" no matter what the temperature is. The more water present, the lower the temperature at which gel phase occurs, which is why high water recipes gel more easily. Therefore, if you want to avoid partial gel, low water helps.

As far as longevity in use, that depends on state of cure, fatty acid profile, and how dry the soap gets between uses. "New" soap has a lot of excess water and will be softer than fully cured soap, and therefore will be easier to rub into lather. Lots of easily lathered fatty acids (lauric and myristic) will "dissolve" faster too, so lots of coconut oil or palm kernel oil will make soap that is shorter lived in use. And finally, a soap dish that holds water will soften home made soap much faster than commercial triple milled soap, and softer soap doesn't last as long as harder soap.

 

[BattleGnome]

Those soaps, because of the water amount in them, only lasted 3-4 weeks and although they liked them that still gave you and me a bad name just because it did not last and I made them a year ago! So, the amount of water will always effect the soap because More water = Less lye and less oil and that produces soap with less life.

I’ve been reading along without much to say (too many numbers, not a science person) and this right here is throwing a ton of clarification at me on why this discussion matters to you.

Two questions:
What bar size do you usually make?
How long do you expect your soaps to last?

3–4 weeks is my goal with a 3.5/4oz bar size and a damp shower (we’ve got circulation issues in the bathroom). I understand that you e been concerned with water content vs space in the mold for actual soap. My understanding was the fatty acid profile of the oils makes a bigger difference in longevity of soap after a proper cure.

If the discussion was entirely to point out changing ratios in a finite space then I understand the discussion and will reread with an eye towards vocabulary differences based on the writer but I feel that I’m missing a huge chunk of something that makes it more than that.

 

[Millie]

Can you tell me where you get the info of low water will not gel? I would like to read it please. When I add more lye and more oil my loaf will be hotter. Up to 200 degrees. Why would that not gel? So, I really would like to read this and see where I am wrong. Please, don't misread. I'm being serious and not "Snarky" as I am accused by other people.

I understand that you are being sincere, and this has been a long and difficult thread with many misunderstandings. Psfred explained it much better than I ever could. I learned a lot about the effect of water content in soap on Auntie Clara's blog. I'm not sure if you will like that particular entry because she, like many of us, keeps her oil weight constant in her experiments. She has many beautifully written entries though which I think you would like. Her blog is an artful blend of soapy adventure, history, and science. I hope you enjoy:

https://auntieclaras.com/blog/

For me, this thread is closed. All that can be said has been said. The only thing left is understanding, and that cannot be forced.

 

[surf girl]

What psfred said. Exactly that.

And also:

I. just.wasted. 10 minutes. reading. this.

OP has mis-phrased and mis-calculated the chemistry involved in such a simple thing a making soap so as to make it so complicated only a lawyer or the OP can do it correctly.

Some people will remain unteachable no matter what. It is called contempt prior to investigation. There is no cure.

I really appreciate all of the help I got when I got here and that this forum was not full of threads like this one.:headbanging::headbanging::headbanging:

LOL, I feel like I was utterly too polite in my response. Bang on.

Save​

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I seem to recall that you have the same amount of experience that I have. What is your secret.
And to answer your question, that is why I am here so why don't you tell me.

Not sure if that was for me. If you're responding directly, quoting the post or at least putting the user name is in a good way of making sure that someone else doesn't think it's aimed at them when it isn't, especially with lots of posts in a thread.

But, my secret? Balanced recipes of water-filled mushy bars, apparently. My oil weight is fixed and my solution strength is usually the same. As the lye needed for different recipes varies, my total water in relation to my oils will of course be different. I don't mind that, as there is some room for play in my mould. People I give the soap to (I don't sell) consistently ask me when I'm making more. In your case, if repeat customers aren't coming, I would say that bars made trying to optimise the actual soap content of the bar from the start don't seem to have that.

What can you do? Well I don't know if it's your recipe in general, or if these Max-Soap-No-Water bars are good to use. Or maybe it's the customer care aspect.

I can't tell you, because you're too busy fighting a corner for something odd and quite specific to how you soap.

Bringing me back to the point of your thread. YOU had an issue with it. YOU had an issue with some other terminology as well. That does not make it s complete block to new soapers as a rule, just because of how you (mis) understand the terms used. But you're getting a lot of push back here because we were all new soapers once, and now we all make good (or even great) soap (but with repeat customers) and those new members who have issues with water are encouraged on to the more useful solution strength or ratio options and they seem to also make consistently lovely soaps using it.

So I don't think, and I get the feeling that many people don't think, that this information is a)useful, b) needed, and c)helpful in how it is presented generally (examples, topic title and how the original post didn't make the goal clear)