I. just.wasted. 10 minutes. reading. this.
OP has mis-phrased and mis-calculated the chemistry involved in such a simple thing a making soap so as to make it so complicated only a lawyer or the OP can do it correctly.
Some people will remain unteachable no matter what. It is called contempt prior to investigation. There is no cure.
I really appreciate all of the help I got when I got here and that this forum was not full of threads like this one.:headbanging::headbanging::headbanging:
If your referring to my lye amounts given, your exactly right. I was calculating at 2% and I forgot to mention that, or change that value on my spreadsheet.
And, as referring to unteachable that could go either way there and I really don't understand where you think I am wrong. Enlighten me?
The point of all that in short was that a lye calc will only increase or decrease your total amount and not bother with keeping your original oil amount request (to fill your 50 oz mold) and adjust your oil and lye to fit your new water value. It is because of that oversight that people do not realize by changing one value they change all values.
Let me out it one more way. Because of this, those 5 oz bars will now only be 4 1/4 oz because it did not adjust with all of your values.
For instance, if I wanted a 60/40 lye ratio and hit the print button and now I change my mind and want a 55/45 ratio I hit the button again. From what I see nothing changes between the two and I don't learn anything. But if I break out a calculator, that total amount that I wanted has now decreased and I never realize that adjusting the water actually changes water and lye values to keep the same amount that I wanted originally. Is that where you don't understand? The importance to making long lasting soap is to understand that concept. This is the reason for this thread. I can see even you are stumped?
I haven't seen that from anybody with even minor experience--lye+oil will always be the same if the super fat is not changing. The amount of water won't influence the amount of lye one jot. (I'm including all associated lye-influencing materials in your "oil" amount, including citric acid, milk, and so on).
Changing the water does change the total recipe, of course, and it does alter the initial characteristics of the soap (long-term characteristics are, from what I've ever noted, essentially unaltered regardless of water amount).
It mostly makes a difference in initial trace speed and tendency to gel. As roundly noted, full water recipes gel pretty easily. Discounted water recipes don't, but can be forced using towels or CPOP or suppressed by putting them in the fridge or freezer.
The jab at DeeAnna wasn't a good idea; most of us learn (and have learned) a great deal from her and she most definitely isn't wrong here. The two of you aren't quite using the same vocabulary, but if you read over what I wrote, I said exactly the same thing DeeAnna did, just using different terminology and a different method of explaining it.
SoapCalc (and other calculators, including the one I whipped up for home use) aren't wrong. They're merely placing the emphasis, by default, on different constraints that you do.
That's hardly an issue, and like me, you wrote your own calculator that works better with your particular style. In fact, I may sit down and calculate and then program a batch constraint calculator. It's rare that I do so--a little overflow just goes into a guest soap mold--but it might be helpful.
If I remember right, this Deeanna person was rude to me first. I have already been told I was ignorant and didn't know anything too many times on this sight just because I am introducing something new that you might not have thought of before. Isn't that what threads are for?
Also, I couldn't exactly think of a one liner that would announce that soap calc's leave detail out. They are not wrong in the amount they tell you.
What they are wrong about is that you cannot learn that by adjusting water you are actually adjusting lye and oil (If your requirement is only X oz's).
That is an important concept to understand otherwise your just a steering wheel holder and not an actual driver. (not aimed at you personally).
Like I was trying to emphasize at the beginning of my post. This is for people learning.
One more thing. Maybe you should create something. You might see for yourself how it all works together. Yours will show the same as mine and is not directed at any particular style. It is the way it works
I think...maybe...that what you're saying is that you're constraining the batch size to 16 and allowing all the constituent amounts to change?
Whereas most of us constrain the oil weight and let everything else, change. Including the total batch weight.
In the case of most of us, with the oil weight stable (and the recipe the same), our lye weight will not change unless we change the super fat. Water, however, can go from a severe water discount all the way to full water.
In your case, with oil weights changing, the amount of lye is absolutely going to change. And with oil weights changing and lye weight changing, water weight is also going to change to make up the rest of the batch.
The consequences in both cases are normal and expected, and the most-of-us crew will produce a differing number of bars depending on our water weight. You'll produce the same, but the total composition will differ.
Neither is in error, it's merely a matter of perspective and what you constrain on your batches.
I glad you understand but many do not. You should read all the comments I am getting. Even experienced soapers apparently. This thread was for those learning and to understand that concept. Until this is understood completely and fully then your just a steering wheel holder instead of a driver! Do you know what I mean?
DeeAnna has kindly done the high and low water soaps and compared weights out as they cure. The weights fall together, eventually becoming indistinguishable from each other, after two months or so. This is something I've also noticed with my high and low water soap; they come together.
While not all the water will evaporate--I tend to figure about four percent of oil weight in water will be bound into the soap crystal--the rest does evaporate over time.
Unfortunately, that established fact negates the rest of your argument.
Now if you wish to argue that the density of the low-water soap will eventually end up a bit higher due to the lower amount of water initially bound and the greater oil/lye ratio (which is more dense than water when it reacts) in a given volume...
...maybe. Alterations in measurements are also well-known, particularly for high-water soap. I'd need to sit down and spend two years or so doing the measurements to a very high degree of accuracy. I suspect that, at the end of two years, the density difference will not be appreciable and bound water will be very close to identical.
It cannot be and it is impossible.
Firstly, oil does not evaporate like you said. Maybe that was a typo. At least not like water.
Secondly, I believe you were also saying that it does retain some water (If I'm hearing you right) and I believe you and say the same thing.
But however, that water will never turn into soap it will be just wasted space in your bar. It may or may not weigh the same as one made with less water (not going there but I bet it will weigh less) simply because water and oil cannot occupy the same space. Oil is what turns into soap and soap weighs more then water so therefore a 5 oz soap made with more oils and lye will actually weigh more then a 5 oz bar made with water if weighed a year later. Just impossible that water weighs more then soap. Not going to happen. Water will never turn into soap but yet you say they are the same and they are not.
