shea & mango superfatting

[Dixie]

Hi guys! Does anyone use shea and/or mango at trace (cp) to superfat?
I'm wondering aprx. how much to use?

 

[Bunny]

I'll quote carebear because she said it best:

for CP soaping, it's been shown that it doesn't matter if you add them at the beginning (my recommendation) with all the other oils, or at trace. The vast majority of the saponification happens in the mold. PLUS, soap is not static - the fatty acids swap themselves in and out of the "salts" (the saponified fatty acids are then salts, go figure). so don't complicate things by adding oils at the end - you are more likely to forget them.

second, both shea and jojoba have a high level of unsaponifiables - so it REALLY wouldn't matter for them

so pour all your oils together and add your lye...

 

[carebear]

well thank you Bunny!

 

[rubato456]

great advice....i'm real strong in the 'forgetting them' department

 

[honor435]

i add 2oz to a 32 oz batch, after the cook(hp) makes the soap easier to work with and very nice on the skin.

 

[Dixie]

Thank you bunny and carebear but I disagree.

Honor than you for your reply and I would like to hear from anyone else who superfats at trace with butter.

Thanks

 

[Val]

Hi Dixie,

I am a newbie but have been reading reading reading here.

From what I have read most SF at 1 T ppo . Not sure how much that would raise the SF count. Meaning I don't know if 1T ppo is like one point on the SF scale or not. I Have not actually seen any using butters yet for this but I guess it would be the same.

As far as the saponification getting it ......well there are disagreements on that but from a few posts I read ..... the soap is like 80 - 90% saponified at trace so I would have no doubt that a little of the butter would get saponified with that remaining 20% left. Maybe less if was at a thicker trace.

Not sure if this is helpful or not but I wanted to try.

Val

 

[Dixie]

Ah thanks val. Yes some of it get eat up but not all of it and I want to pick which oils are the most superfated (so to speak).
I've never used butters at trace and was wondering about them, hoping to hear from someone who does.

 

[Val]

Thanks Dixie,

Off hand do you know about how much on the SF scale it raises it? This is something I am looking to find out as I want to know how much to use to raise a 5% up to like 8% by SF'ing select oils. And since some have less saponifiables in them how would those be treated..... like how much less would one use.

Val

 

[LJA]

Thank you bunny and carebear but I disagree.

Honor than you for your reply and I would like to hear from anyone else who superfats at trace with butter.

Thanks

I always do, but then I've always done it that way. I haven't tried throwing it all in at once. When I learned to soap I learned to add the butters at trace. Maybe I'll try it the other way and see if I see any difference.

 

[Dixie]

lol VAl, your asking someone who is not very 'scientific'. Maybe somone else can help us out.
I think it depends a lot on what oil you use of course. One that is high in unsapafinables you would get a higher percent of superfat at the end. But keeping in mind that you superfat in soapcal and we don't know which oils exactly make up the highest percentage of sf there. That's why superfatting at the end gives you a little more control of what superfatting oil is highest in your soap. Each has it's own properties. One thing that helps is to know your oils. TAke jojoba oil for example, it is actually a liquid wax. It is said to be closely related to human sebum and this makes it very compatible with our skin, easily absorbed. It is said to help in fighting Acne and Pimples and is wonderful for dry and damaged skin. It can also be used as a fixative for scents in soap. If I'm making a bar for someone with exema or acne I would want this to be my most suspended (most sf) oil in the soap.
Adding at trace the lye process has slowed down a bit and the oil added then will be the oil that is more suspended in the soap.
Just my opinion.
Hopefully we will hear from others

 

[Dixie]

Val, another way to do it is add all your oils into the calculator but then hold out some of the oils you want to be most suspended in your soap and add them at trace.

 

[carebear]

Thank you bunny and carebear but I disagree.

feel free

but still I'd recommend about 5%.

 

[Val]

ok so what your saying is ....... put all oils in the soap calc and set it to say 8 SF if that is what I want and use the ones I want most SF from at trace. Makes sense to me LOL

Reason I am asking is I have really dry skin and so does my mom. I used a soap at 5% and it is ok but make me feel dry and tight skinned. Not as bad as store bought soap but not really conditioning like I want so I figured I needed an 8% SF to get what I liked.


Val

 

[Dixie]

I always SF at 8% plus add oils at trace, I just don't go crazy. I stick with the average recommendations. TLC sundries is a great site with lots of info that I think you would enjoy taking a look at: http://www.tlcsoaps.com/soapmaking.htm

 

[Milla]

Awhile ago I had downloaded a soap recipe excel template from Miller' Soap page.

http://www.millersoap.com/worksheet.html

It has a column for your regular oils and for superfatting oils. It also list the Lye Discount and Total Effective Lye discount after adding the superfatting oils.

If you have 32 oz. of oil at 5% and then added an ounce of mango butter at trace you will have a total effective lye discount of 8.1%

Now using soapcalc I put that one ounce in the main batch category and adjusted the superfat % so that I would have the same lye amount. I got around 8% superfat.

Which means, math-wise it doesn't matter whether you add it before or after trace as long as you want 8% superfat.

Edit...But what do I know, I'm a total Newbie!!

 

[Val]

Thank You for the link Dixie! Looks like a great site.

Val

 

[Dixie]

Milla I agree with you, math wise it doesn't matter, but what I want to control is "which" oil is the most suspended (sf) in the soap. Millers is a great site too!

 

[Milla]

Ah....I see what you mean Dixie. Not sure if that would be possible with CP and be totally sure.

I would say it would work with HP like honor does because if you superfat after saponification you would then be choosing "which" oil.

 

[topcat]

I totally agree with Milla there. HP, after the cook, is like CP after the gel phase. Superfatting at trace with CP which is then gelled gives no different feeling in the soap when being used - I have tried it with my recipe both ways and no one who has used both samples can feel any difference at all. Perhaps it is more effective in an ungelled soap? That way most saponification really has taken place during trace.....just a thought.

Tanya