Second Batch today - Beef tallow with coconut sauce

[Techie Joe]

I don't think its like saying that at all.
To use that analogy its more like saying, "Don't eat from the pot because its not cooked yet".

Fair enough though, I've only ever made one batch of HP soap, so I have virtually no experience to draw from here. But even so I have been put in a position of defending the HP fluid method and why I chose it.

Is there something untrue about what I said before?
Is CP soap not caustic during the first few weeks of curing?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

No, an average batch of cp which isn't forcibly cooled will be safe within 24 hours

 

[earlene]

Is CP soap not caustic during the first few weeks of curing?

Well, no, not all CP soap is caustic in the first few weeks of curing. I don't tend to get a positive zap test with my CP after a day or two of unmolding and cutting. Therefore they no longer caustic. But that depends on if I gel my soap, which I almost always do, or or if I make a lye heavy soap. Only once did I purposefully make a lye heavy soap. Most sites I have found on how long it takes for the saponification process to complete in CP soap say about 24-48 hours. Of course there are variables, but with a reasonably reliable method and formula, I expect that is pretty accurate for gelled soaps. And once saponification is complete, the soap is no longer caustic, right?

Anyway, I really think you should make your soap with the method you chose as safely as your are able, keeping your mind free of any negativity that might interfere with the process. I try not to do anything dangerous when my mind is distracted by negativity, etc.

I think I understand your explanation of why you want to try this method, and that's fine. You sound pretty confident that you can manage it without too much difficulty, and you sound like you have a certain amount of experience doing a lot of different projects, including having active lye solution in a concrete battery somewhere on your property. Since I assume your guests/kids don't get into the battery without you being there to supervise, I expect you will also manage to keep your curing soaps safely as well, caustic or not.

 

[Techie Joe]

Okay, I attempted a fluid batch tonight but it never got up to temperature so I'm posting the attempt here instead of the Fluid method thread, as it technically was just a bad HP.

Where do I begin....
The 300g Coconut oil from Tesco turned out to be only 275g, luckily I had another jar
In a bizarre diversion from the plan I added a few extra grams of Olive oil during heating, to counteract the few extra grams of Coconut oil from the second (cold) jar, and ended up spooning it off the surface during apple sauce hour.
Could not find my infra-red thermometer for 2 hours, thought I would have to abandon the batch for the day, but found it and resumed the cook
Because of the thermometer fiasco I had no idea the cooker temp, I had turned off the slow cooker at 140 c - it would have boiled off the water in minutes had I gone ahead without a thermometer, perhaps even had the oils spitting
Made up the lye solution (76c) and added it to 80c oils, which were cooling fast, the result was 74c oils with slow cooker cooling in the off position (the active temp should have been 83 c)
The batch never got above 76c for the rest of the night even though the rim of the slow cooker was scalding anything that went near it.
There was not even one volcano, except for one part of the blob which strayed out of the cool zone and touched the cooker edge, that was volcanoing fine, but it was also bone dry from the heat.
I decided that I would put whatever I could into moulds or lose the whole batch by dawn
I filled a pringles can 2/3 full of eucalyptus soap
I filled 3 small yogurt pots to test 3 different things; purple food colour, green food colour and wd40 (you knew I wasn't joking)
These will all be cut tomorrow so I will post pictures, but I don't consider them ready until a few weeks cure

Biggest problem -- too difficult to control the temperature of the slow cooker, am buying a pot for the next batch. Honestly its ridiculous, takes an hour to heat up at all, its had its last meal I tell you.
Second biggest problem -- I let the oils get too cool, next time i will add the 76c lye to about 98c oils, hopefully they can meet around 85c

I also changed the recipe from the beef lard to this one....
Olive Oil 51.22 %
Coconut Oil 38.41 %
Castor Oil 6.4 %
Beeswax 3.97 % (31g)

It thickened up as soon as I mixed the lye, very thick and didn't thin out until I got to applesauce, but it never got past that.
It would have made a hard bar of soap, just the way I like, but alas poor Yoric, the slow cooker will be drop-kicked over the nearest hedge in the first light of the morn, and hopefully land in a crock-pile where it belongs.

 

[SaltedFig]

... I'm thinking something like a clothes hanger with a 90 degree bend (or a 7 shape or a small triangle) at the bottom, and hammered flat along that end to scoop the batter (like a mini golf putter). But if the weight is too much off-center it will cause some vibration when you run it, it might be okay as long as it doesn't get worse and start bending all over the place.
If you want to reinforce it you could solder or braze 3 straight hanger pieces together as the shaft, or just get a thicker piece of steel rod or threaded bar from the hardware shop, 4 or 6mm might do.

TJ, You don't want solder or (especially) braze anything that comes into direct contact with your soap or soap batter, as the metal content (especially the copper in the braze) will trigger oxidation in your soap, and you will just about guarantee DOS.

Stainless is better than plain steel or iron for soaping, and just about all the other metals you don't want to use (especially aluminium).

 

[Techie Joe]

TJ, You don't want solder or (especially) braze anything that comes into direct contact with your soap or soap batter, as the metal content (especially the copper in the braze) will trigger oxidation in your soap, and you will just about guarantee DOS.

Stainless is better than plain steel or iron for soaping, and just about all the other metals you don't want to use (especially aluminium).

This is the solution then, a stainless steel skewer with a small loop for a handle, and you use the handle end as the stirrer. It should be stiff enough not to start bending around, just make sure the drill gets a good grip on it, you might have to cut the flat bit off the pointy end. And get one where the shaft is mostly round or triangular instead of square or flat so it fits the drill better.

 

[penelopejane]

Sorry I don’t get it.
What is wrong with using a stick blender?

 

[Techie Joe]

Sorry I don’t get it.
What is wrong with using a stick blender?

There is an open discussion in the thread about using a paint mixer and cordless drill, to mix large batches for more than 30 seconds at a time

 

[earlene]

There are soapers who use paint mixer attachments with their drills for mixing large buckets of soap.

 

[Techie Joe]

Perhaps they make ones that are manageable sizes, the ones I have seen are all 3 feet long

 

[Sandra@SS]

Perhaps they make ones that are manageable sizes, the ones I have seen are all 3 feet long

some (domestic) paint mixers are 12 inches. I have seen the big mother 3ft mixers...too scary for soap.
the smaller ones are really easy to use, and will happily mix 1-4L or more depending on the depth.
Variable speed trigger on the drill helps too, rather than the old on/off trigger

 

[penelopejane]

There is an open discussion in the thread about using a paint mixer and cordless drill, to mix large batches for more than 30 seconds at a time

I’ve never adhered to the instructions to only use a SB for 30 secs at a time. My Braun is about 20 years old and still going strong. Unless you are making 10kg batches I think a SB would be fine.

 

[Techie Joe]

some (domestic) paint mixers are 12 inches. I have seen the big mother 3ft mixers...too scary for soap.
the smaller ones are really easy to use, and will happily mix 1-4L or more depending on the depth.
Variable speed trigger on the drill helps too, rather than the old on/off trigger

Great, that takes care of that. Only problem now is the weight of the drill. I suppose it could be suspended from the rafters on a couple of bungees if you are that way inclined, and pulled down for the blending.

 

[Techie Joe]

This is the batch that went all assways in the slow cooker (description), I think it turned out aright for a second batch ever.
The green and purple seem okay if a bit dark, not much smell from the wd40. If there are any problems after they have cured I will let you know.

 

[Techie Joe]

A normal stick blender will do for CP where you stop blending at trace, but if your going to be stirring more than 1kg of thick batter, a drill would come in very handy

More on blenders
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/stick-blenders.69106/

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Stilton soap!

 

[earlene]

Joe, what did you use for the purple that looks navy blue on my screen? The one on the left in the above photo. Was that the purple food coloring?

 

[cmzaha]

I admit I skimmed over this last page, but my question is why you want the soap to volcano? Volcano's can be dangerous other than just to a floor, since not all volcanoes are just bubbling soap batter. Some will simply refuse to be stirred down, ask my cabinets how I know, they can practically explode on you, your counters, floors and whatever is in their path. Now you are not only dealing with caustic but hot caustic soap batter that will tend to cool like hot glue when it hits the cool skin. Also fluid made hp, no matter your process, will tend to make soaps that warp during cure. Why anyone would want to play with a soap that volcanoes goes beyond me.

As for soap staying caustic, if it is not lye heavy it will only zap up to 72 hrs. I handle zappy soap without gloves when cutting without anything great problems other than drying my hands a little. My theory with children is keep dangerous products and items out of their way if they are children that do not listen to "Do Not Touch", my grandchildren even as toddlers were taught not to touch and never did.

You came here supposedly asking for help and or opinions then apparently did not like our opinions. We also answer like we do so some other newie reading this discussion will know it is not a recommended way to make soap. It may save them or their child, who hopefully is not in the soaping area, from getting hurt. So the answers are not just for you. CP will accomplish your fluid pour although 50% tallow will speed trace a bit.

Your soap does look like Stilton cheese

 

[Techie Joe]

Joe, what did you use for the purple that looks navy blue on my screen? The one on the left in the above photo. Was that the purple food coloring?

Yeah, they both look blue on my screen aswel. I didn't measure either of them, I just dropped a bit into each pot.
The green (round soap) is goodalls food colouring, and the purple is dr oetker's food colouring.

 

[Sandra@SS]

This is the batch that went all assways in the slow cooker (description), I think it turned out aright for a second batch ever.
The green and purple seem okay if a bit dark, not much smell from the wd40. If there are any problems after they have cured I will let you know.

looks like you made cheese! yum!