Sorry this has been a stressful situation for you! It does sound like it's regular soybean oil - not hydrogenated - that you want.
Recipe help
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I wanted to share my observation, along with some thoughts on the recipe itself.
From what I understand, there are 3 main soybean products used in soaping (at least those 3 are present in SMF).
The first one is the regular soybean oil, which is high in linoleic acid. If the recipe has this one with that high %, the soap would be very prone to DOS unless you use the right combo of chelator/antioxidant. That % of soybean oil could normally also result in a softer bar of soap, but in this particular case with that % of saturated fats that shouldn't be the case. Overall, it won't be a great recipe by itself, but with the correct additives it could be fine.
The second one is the partially hydrogenated one which is high in oleic acid (I think that is the same as what AliOop refers to as the high oleic soybean oil variety used in high temp cooking, but I may be wrong). If this is the one used in the recipe, I think that would make the most balanced option, closer to the usual soap trinity PO/CO/OO and it will give you both really good soap qualities and enough saturated/unsaturated ratio for the recipe to be easily workable under the right conditions. In theory that should result in a hard bar of soap with good lather, not too harsh on the skin. This would be the best option IMO, if it's present. I think you mentioned you found soybean oil labeled as 'high smoke point' - to make sure it's the right one, check the label ‐ monounsaturated fatty acids should make the majority of its content for it to be the high oleic type, If that's the case - I say go for it, the soap made with it will be (in theory) similar to one made with olive oil).
Now the third one is what is referred to as soy wax and it's fully hydrogenated. It makes a hard soap bar because it has lots of stearic acid in it. If that's what they want used in the recipe (which I doubt, since it would otherwise be listed as soy wax or hydrogenated soybean oil, not as soy oil only ‐ but you also mentioned language barrier here, so I'm not exactly sure what they want in the soap), that would make a really hard bar of soap with plenty of saturated fatty acids (all fats are solid after all), which could be a little tricky to work with since the batter will trace fast. While it would make a fine enough soap, I don't see a reason why you wouldn't put some liquid oil in it, for balance and for convenience. Overall, the second option is the best to me, which is great since you probably have the high oleic liquid type available to you.
HTH and sorry for the long post
From what I understand, there are 3 main soybean products used in soaping (at least those 3 are present in SMF).
The first one is the regular soybean oil, which is high in linoleic acid. If the recipe has this one with that high %, the soap would be very prone to DOS unless you use the right combo of chelator/antioxidant. That % of soybean oil could normally also result in a softer bar of soap, but in this particular case with that % of saturated fats that shouldn't be the case. Overall, it won't be a great recipe by itself, but with the correct additives it could be fine.
The second one is the partially hydrogenated one which is high in oleic acid (I think that is the same as what AliOop refers to as the high oleic soybean oil variety used in high temp cooking, but I may be wrong). If this is the one used in the recipe, I think that would make the most balanced option, closer to the usual soap trinity PO/CO/OO and it will give you both really good soap qualities and enough saturated/unsaturated ratio for the recipe to be easily workable under the right conditions. In theory that should result in a hard bar of soap with good lather, not too harsh on the skin. This would be the best option IMO, if it's present. I think you mentioned you found soybean oil labeled as 'high smoke point' - to make sure it's the right one, check the label ‐ monounsaturated fatty acids should make the majority of its content for it to be the high oleic type, If that's the case - I say go for it, the soap made with it will be (in theory) similar to one made with olive oil).
Now the third one is what is referred to as soy wax and it's fully hydrogenated. It makes a hard soap bar because it has lots of stearic acid in it. If that's what they want used in the recipe (which I doubt, since it would otherwise be listed as soy wax or hydrogenated soybean oil, not as soy oil only ‐ but you also mentioned language barrier here, so I'm not exactly sure what they want in the soap), that would make a really hard bar of soap with plenty of saturated fatty acids (all fats are solid after all), which could be a little tricky to work with since the batter will trace fast. While it would make a fine enough soap, I don't see a reason why you wouldn't put some liquid oil in it, for balance and for convenience. Overall, the second option is the best to me, which is great since you probably have the high oleic liquid type available to you.
HTH and sorry for the long post
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MommaSoaper
Well-Known Member
Thank you so much for the information. The soybean oil (vegetable oil) that I was looking into is at sams club. It looks like their version has a higher polyunsaturated fat (8g) and a lower monounsaturated fat (3.5g). It does say that it has a high smoke point though. Perhaps keep looking? You all are beyond awesome!I wanted to share my observation, along with some thoughts on the recipe itself.
From what I understand, there are 3 main soybean products used in soaping (at least those 3 are present in SMF).
The first one is the regular soybean oil, which is high in linoleic acid. If the recipe has this one with that high %, the soap would be very prone to DOS unless you use the right combo of chelator/antioxidant. That % of soybean oil could normally also result in a softer bar of soap, but in this particular case with that % of saturated fats that shouldn't be the case. Overall, it won't be a great recipe by itself, but with the correct additives it could be fine.
The second one is the partially hydrogenated one which is high in oleic acid (I think that is the same as what AliOop refers to as the high oleic soybean oil variety used in high temp cooking, but I may be wrong). If this is the one used in the recipe, I think that would make the most balanced option, closer to the usual soap trinity PO/CO/OO and it will give you both really good soap qualities and enough saturated/unsaturated ratio for the recipe to be easily workable under the right conditions. In theory that should result in a hard bar of soap with good lather, not too harsh on the skin. This would be the best option IMO, if it's present. I think you mentioned you found soybean oil labeled as 'high smoke point' - to make sure it's the right one, check the label ‐ monounsaturated fatty acids should make the majority of its content for it to be the high oleic type, If that's the case - I say go for it, the soap made with it will be (in theory) similar to one made with olive oil).
Now the third one is what is referred to as soy wax and it's fully hydrogenated. It makes a hard soap bar because it has lots of stearic acid in it. If that's what they want used in the recipe (which I doubt, since it would otherwise be listed as soy wax or hydrogenated soybean oil, not as soy oil only ‐ but you also mentioned language barrier here, so I'm not exactly sure what they want in the soap), that would make a really hard bar of soap with plenty of saturated fatty acids (all fats are solid after all), which could be a little tricky to work with since the batter will trace fast. While it would make a fine enough soap, I don't see a reason why you wouldn't put some liquid oil in it, for balance and for convenience. Overall, the second option is the best to me, which is great since you probably have the high oleic liquid type available to you.
HTH and sorry for the long post
Hmmmm, it seems the one you found is the normal, low oleic type of soybean oil. You can try the recipe that way, but I'm pretty sure the soap will get DOS without the proper additives
Hello @MommaSoaper - don't know if this will be useful or not, but there is an Australian soapmaker (George at Dawn Organics, he has a YouTube channel and also sells on his website) who began using soybean oil in many of his soaps a year or 2 ago and he seems very happy with the results. He buys oil from this Australian company. It doesn't seem to be particularly special (other than non-GMO), but perhaps something on their webpage would help you evaluate what you buy at Sam's.
This is George's review, which you can see at the bottom of the Heirloom Body Care webpage:
"Such a great oil, very glad I bought this to try. Definitely recommend this over rice bran oil as it is just as conditioning as Olive oil
but doesn't accelerate trace like rice bran. Using this at 30% of the oils. Very good!"
Lastly, here is one of George's videos with a recipe in the description box (scroll down to "Recipe Information"); the recipe he used is very similar to the one you asked about originally, except he added very small amounts of olive oil and castor oil:
Dawn Organics video
I think I'd just go for it with the Sam's oil, but I don't have your very particular customer! Good luck!
This is George's review, which you can see at the bottom of the Heirloom Body Care webpage:
"Such a great oil, very glad I bought this to try. Definitely recommend this over rice bran oil as it is just as conditioning as Olive oil
but doesn't accelerate trace like rice bran. Using this at 30% of the oils. Very good!"
Lastly, here is one of George's videos with a recipe in the description box (scroll down to "Recipe Information"); the recipe he used is very similar to the one you asked about originally, except he added very small amounts of olive oil and castor oil:
Dawn Organics video
I think I'd just go for it with the Sam's oil, but I don't have your very particular customer! Good luck!
Let's try this again:
1. Regular soybean oil is indeed high in linoleic acid (2 unsaturated bonds), and also has linolenic acid (3 unsaturated bonds) at 10-20% which makes it a poor choice for soap making.
2. High oleic liquid oils are not hydrogenated. They are derived from plant strains developed through natural breeding or genetic engineering. The high oleic soybean oil @AliOop referenced is very likely from genetically engineered soybeans.
3. Partially hydrogenated soybean oils vary with respect to oleic acid content.
GW 415, is low in oleic fatty acid*:
Fatty acid composition (typical values per 100 g) - from the manufacturer:
- Saturated fat 44 g (palmitic and stearic acid)
- trans fat 39.4 g (possibly elaidic acid)
- Monounsaturated fat 16.6 g (oleic acid)
- Polyunsaturated fat 0 g
But, another type of soy wax sold by Majestic Mountain Sage in the US has this fatty acid profile:
Stearic 39%, Palmitic 10%, Oleic 41%, Linoleic 9.3%, Linolenic 1.3%.
4. Fully hydrogenated soy wax composition probably varies little:
Fully hydrogenated soy wax sold by Majestic Mountain Sage in the US has about 87% stearic and 11% palmitic. Has no linoleic or linolenic.
Another fully hydrogenated wax sold in Europe is called "soybean oil hydrogenated Ph. Eur. 9.0". It's produced in Germany by a company called gustavheess. The fatty acid composition is as follows:
myristic 0.1%
palmitic 10.3%
stearic 88.1%
arachidic acid 0.7
behenic acid 0.4
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Thank you for clarifying this. That was my understanding, as well. And I probably confused the issue by calling them "high oleic" when I think they are just marked as "suitable for high heat" or "high smoke point" or something like that. I just assumed that meant they were high oleic. So sorry if that's not correct.
Oh, too bad... If it's Member's Mark 100% Pure Clear Frying Oil, it's not high oleic. The saturated and monounsaturated fats are only 36% of the total.
