Premade lotion base for lotion bars?

[pjknight]

You're flailing around trying to create a complicated product from vague memories. And you're clearly not getting the results you want. So maybe it's time to stop trying to remember those fancy dance steps and go back to basics.

First thing is set the clay aside for now -- you can always add that in later -- but focus on getting a salve that's the right consistency.

Zing's basic recipe is about 1/3 beeswax, 1/3 solid fat, and 1/3 liquid fat. Try this and see how that works. Then tweak from there to get the consistency just right.

thank you for the advice. I needed that! I will make a small batch- just an ounce. if it turns out to what i am looking for how do I ramp up the recipe to be 453.59 grams?

 

[pjknight]

You're flailing around trying to create a complicated product from vague memories. And you're clearly not getting the results you want. So maybe it's time to stop trying to remember those fancy dance steps and go back to basics.

First thing is set the clay aside for now -- you can always add that in later -- but focus on getting a salve that's the right consistency.

Zing's basic recipe is about 1/3 beeswax, 1/3 solid fat, and 1/3 liquid fat. Try this and see how that works. Then tweak from there to get the consistency just right.

 

[bookworm42]

I work in percentages for just about everything. It's easy to scale that way.

Ex
1oz batch
33%/.33oz beeswax
33%/.33oz mango butter/cocoa butter
33%/.33oz hemp oil or other liquid oil or combo
1%/.01oz vit e

Then when you want to scale up times the amount you want to make (453) by the percentages and you get your ingredient amounts.

Edited for clarification

 

[pjknight]

I work in percentages for just about everything. It's easy to scale that way.

Ex
1oz batch
33%/.33oz beeswax
33%/.33oz mango butter/cocoa butter
33%/.33oz hemp oil or other liquid oil or combo
1%/.01oz vit e

Then when you want to scale up times 453 by the percentages and you get your amounts.

ok so cocoa butter and mango butter would be .33 each or half of .33 for each? and 453 times 16 oz?

 

[bookworm42]

ok so cocoa butter and mango butter would be .33 each or half of .33 for each?

I'd start with one so .33 of CB or MB later you can experiment with combining them.

You said you wanted to scale up to 453g so it would look like below.

453 batch
33%/149g beeswax
33%/149g MB or CB
33%/149g hemp oil or other liquid oil
1%/5g vit e

Basically you take how much you want to make (453) and multiply it by the percentage (.33 or 33%).

100g batch
33%/33g beeswax
33%/33g MB or CB
33%/33g hemp oil or other liquid oil
1%/1g vit e

 

[pjknight]

I'd start with one so .33 of CB or MB later you can experiment with combining them.

You said you wanted to scale up to 453g so it would look like below.

453 batch
33%/149g beeswax
33%/149g MB or CB
33%/149g hemp oil or other liquid oil
1%/5g vit e

Basically you take how much you want to make (453) and multiply it be the percentage (.33 or 33%).

100g batch
33%/33g beeswax
33%/33g MB or CB
33%/33g hemp oil or other liquid oil
1%/1g vit e

I'd start with one so .33 of CB or MB later you can experiment with combining them.

You said you wanted to scale up to 453g so it would look like below.

453 batch
33%/149g beeswax
33%/149g MB or CB
33%/149g hemp oil or other liquid oil
1%/5g vit e

Basically you take how much you want to make (453) and multiply it be the percentage (.33 or 33%).

100g batch
33%/33g beeswax
33%/33g MB or CB
33%/33g hemp oil or other liquid oil
1%/1g vit e

got it! thanks so much! I'm lousy at math, I've got alot of Mango butter to use up so Ill need to incorporate that into the recipe at some poi Because its a butter?, I would imagine I would have to lower the hemp oil to adjust for firmness. Not sure. if I used Almond oil and hemp oil for the liquid oils, would I just cut the amount in half ie: 74.5 g each of almond and 74.5 g Hemp. Is that right? I don't want to mess with the CB because I want a nice firm bar

 

[bookworm42]

Because its a butter?, I would imagine I would have to lower the hemp oil to adjust for firmness. Not sure. if I used Almond oil and hemp oil for the liquid oils, would I just cut the amount in half ie: 74.5 g each of almond and 74.5 g Hemp. Is that right? I don't want to mess with the CB because I want a nice firm bar

The beeswax and butter should provide plenty of firmness so you wouldn't need to adjust. This is what I would do.

Make a 1 oz batch
33%/.33oz beeswax
33%/.33oz mango butter
33%/.33oz hemp oil or almond oil (just do 1 oil on your trial batch)
1%/.01oz vit e
Then see how you like it. Save the bigger batch until you have a recipe you like.

I normally just pour everything into a double boiler and melt it all down. Once all liquid and combined pour into molds and let cool at room temp. Then when the bars are opaque pop them in the fridge for about 10 min to finish firming up. Then pop out of mold. Wait about 5-10 min then test.

Cold bars/sticks do not glide smoothly.

My go to recipe is
34% beeswax
33% mango butter
32% SAO
1% vit e

To me it makes a nice firm bar that isn't too greasy. It also has a nice glide once you get it going.

 

[pjknight]

got it! thanks so much! I'm lousy at math, I've got alot of Mango butter to use up so Ill need to incorporate that into the recipe at some poi Because its a butter?, I would imagine I would have to lower the hemp oil to adjust for firmness. Not sure. if I used Almond oil and hemp oil for the liquid oils, would I just cut the amount in half ie: 74.5 g each of almond and 74.5 g Hemp. Is that right? I don't want to mess with the CB because I want a nice firm bar

The beeswax and butter should provide plenty of firmness so you wouldn't need to adjust. This is what I would do.

Make a 1 oz batch
33%/.33oz beeswax
33%/.33oz mango butter
33%/.33oz hemp oil or almond oil (just do 1 oil on your trial batch)
1%/.01oz vit e
Then see how you like it. Save the bigger batch until you have a recipe you like.

I normally just pour everything into a double boiler and melt it all down. Once all liquid and combined pour into molds and let cool at room temp. Then when the bars are opaque pop them in the fridge for about 10 min to finish firming up. Then pop out of mold. Wait about 5-10 min then test.

Cold bars/sticks do not glide smoothly.

ok Ill try the test batch now and ill get back to you with the results

 

[pjknight]

My go to recipe is
34% beeswax
33% mango butter
32% SAO
1% vit e

To me it makes a nice firm bar that isn't too greasy. It also has a nice glide once you get it going.

First off whats SAO? I just took the bar out of the fridge. Its nice and firm, and it looks great! As long as it stays in a solid state after its out of the fridge, then i feel like I have accomplished something tonight!! Thank you so much for your help. I wouln't have been able to do this without your imput!! I definately will go with 34% beeswax as I like a nice firm bar. I also would like to do two things with the formula- 1. add cocoabutter( which I could go with 17%0 and 17%beewax) equals 34% And 2. Hemp 17% and Mango Butter 16%. which equals 33%. I think that formula will work as its still 34, 33 . and 33 correct? I will also add kaolin clay to "dry" it out a bit. and vit E. let me know what you think! thanks!

 

[bookworm42]

How does the bar feel? Does it glide nicely? Is it too hard? Does it melt too quickly?
All of these things can affect how you want to adjust the recipe.

First off whats SAO?

Sword art online
sweet almond oil

I also would like to do two things with the formula- 1. add cocoabutter( which I could go with 17%0 and 17%beewax) equals 34%

I would sub out the mango butter for cocoa butter. I think that's where you might have went wrong in the beginning beeswax is what gives it its firmness. If you sub out too much it'll be too soft. So try 34% beeswax, 17% cocoa, and 16% mango.

2. Hemp 17% and Mango Butter 16%. which equals 33%

If you want a harder bar then I would take the 1% you gave to beeswax out of the liquid oil instead of the butters. I'd put the hemp at 32%.

I'd stay close to the golden trio provided by Zing and try switching out the butters or try a different oil.

Take it slow. Only change one thing at a time. Otherwise you won't be able to tell what gives you what you want.

 

[A-Polly]

Good luck, sounds like you are getting close! However, I believe you need to substitute like for like (that is, butter for butter, oil for oil, wax for wax), So you can use a mix of cocoa and mango butters for the total butter amount, and a mix of hemp and sweet almond oil for the liquid oil amount, but the beeswax amount should stay as it is, assuming you like the firmness and feel of your sample. What @bookworm42 said above is great advice, especially about taking it slow and changing only one thing at a time (although I can't say it's always easy to rein myself in and experiment calmly and methodically!).

If you'd like a hands-on, trial-and-error way to adjust the feel of your formula, you can use the old Soap Queen trick of putting a regular metal spoon in the freezer for an hour or two, and then using it for a consistency test. Once all your ingredients are nicely melted and mixed together, dip a frozen spoon into and out of the hot mixture. The cold metal will harden the coating on the spoon right away, and you can try that bit on your lips or hands to see if you like how it spreads and feels. If it's too hard, add more oil to the base mixture; if too soft, add more wax (we're talking small amounts here). Of course, you'd want to measure what you add each time so the formula you end up with can be reproduced. This works great for lip balms, so I guess it should work for lotion bars, too!

 

[bookworm42]

(although I can't say it's always easy to rein myself in and experiment calmly and methodically!).

I have this problem with soap! Fortunately for lotion bars I had a recipe that I liked and only needed minor tweaks.

 

[pjknight]

How does the bar feel? Does it glide nicely? Is it too hard? Does it melt too quickly?
All of these things can affect how you want to adjust the recipe.


Sword art online
sweet almond oil


I would sub out the mango butter for cocoa butter. I think that's where you might have went wrong in the beginning beeswax is what gives it its firmness. If you sub out too much it'll be too soft. So try 34% beeswax, 17% cocoa, and 16% mango.


If you want a harder bar then I would take the 1% you gave to beeswax out of the liquid oil instead of the butters. I'd put the hemp at 32%.

I'd stay close to the golden trio provided by Zing and try switching out the butters or try a different oil.

Take it slow. Only change one thing at a time. Otherwise you won't be able to tell what gives you what you want.

this morning the bar survived the night! Its nice and hard. It has nice glide, and I am going to try a few more experiments to drill down to what I want. Its very close!!!! I need it to be a tad harder and IA'm going to subsitute mango for SAO (thanks for telling it what it was!!) I'm also going to using ounces instead of grams even though grams are more precise, I have found it easier to make a mistake sometimes.

First off whats SAO? I just took the bar out of the fridge. Its nice and firm, and it looks great! As long as it stays in a solid state after its out of the fridge, then i feel like I have accomplished something tonight!! Thank you so much for your help. I wouln't have been able to do this without your imput!! I definately will go with 34% beeswax as I like a nice firm bar. I also would like to do two things with the formula- 1. add cocoabutter( which I could go with 17%0 and 17%beewax) equals 34% And 2. Hemp 17% and Mango Butter 16%. which equals 33%. I think that formula will work as its still 34, 33 . and 33 correct? I will also add kaolin clay to "dry" it out a bit. and vit E. let me know what you think! thanks!

 

[pjknight]

How does the bar feel? Does it glide nicely? Is it too hard? Does it melt too quickly?
All of these things can affect how you want to adjust the recipe.


Sword art online
sweet almond oil


I would sub out the mango butter for cocoa butter. I think that's where you might have went wrong in the beginning beeswax is what gives it its firmness. If you sub out too much it'll be too soft. So try 34% beeswax, 17% cocoa, and 16% mango.


If you want a harder bar then I would take the 1% you gave to beeswax out of the liquid oil instead of the butters. I'd put the hemp at 32%.

I'd stay close to the golden trio provided by Zing and try switching out the butters or try a different oil.

Take it slow. Only change one thing at a time. Otherwise you won't be able to tell what gives you what you want.

Here is the recipe I came up with, if you could check the numbers, as I dont want to make another mistake! I did the spoon trick and it turned out really nice. I love the SAO. instead of the mango. 34% beeswax @154.02g, 17% cocoabutter @77.01g, 33% hemp @149.49g, 16% Sweet almond oil @72.48g, 1% vit E. @ 5g.

 

[bookworm42]

Here is the recipe I came up with, if you could check the numbers, as I dont want to make another mistake! I did the spoon trick and it turned out really nice. I love the SAO. instead of the mango. 34% beeswax @154.02g, 17% cocoabutter @77.01g, 33% hemp @149.49g, 16% Sweet almond oil @72.48g, 1% vit E. @ 5g.

You might find this to be too soft.
SAO is a liquid oil.
Instead of replacing mango butter replace some of the hemp oil. Remember sub like for like. I'd try
34% beeswax
33% cocoa butter
16% hemp oil
16% SAO

Make a test batch and see how you like it before going all out. You can even try a half ounce recipe if your scale allows it.

 

[pjknight]

You might find this to be too soft.
SAO is a liquid oil.
Instead of replacing mango butter replace some of the hemp oil. Remember sub like for like. I'd try
34% beeswax
33% cocoa butter
16% hemp oil
16% SAO

Make a test batch and see how you like it before going all out. You can even try a half ounce recipe if your scale allows it.

ok Ill test that! but are the numbers correct?

 

[bookworm42]

Yep your math checks out

 

[pjknight]

Yep your math checks out

awesome! thanks

 

[Hope Elisabeth 68]

I'm on my third try of making a solid balm. my recipe has to be off, but at this point I can't see what is wrong,.. what I am trying to accomplish,is a nice solid bar that glides on the skin with not alot of drag but doesnt completly melt., that can be used in hot weather without it melting in the container, if that makes sense. Here is my recipe. Beeswax 99g cocoa butter, 28 g. mango butter,138g, hemp oil,107g,avocad oil, 28g, jojoba oil, 22 g kaolin clay. I reallly don't want to throw it all away if there is a chance I can save it. I melt the beeswax and cocoabutter, take it off the heat, then add the oils, I use the Humblebee's method to take the product to trace and then pour it in the containers. when it starts to harden, I pop them in the fridge for 24 hours to set up. My first two tries went in the trash.

Can you explain what you mean by Humblebees taking it to trace? I have looked over her stuff a lot and this intrigues me. Thanks!

 

[pjknight]

Can you explain what you mean by Humblebees taking it to trace? I have looked over her stuff a lot and this intrigues me. Thanks!

sorry it took so long to reply. when she makes balms, she takes the mixture to trace just like cp soap. She does this so that down the line the balm does'nt turn grainy. The reason being is that the fatty acids melt at different times and temps, so she stirs the oils until it turn cloudy, then bubbly, then trace. Here is her video: