Powdery texture of CP soap

[Baqn]

Hallo. I was searching about solution of a problem I got recently. I am making some recipes for maybe 10 times but this time got new problem. I don't really know how to handle with it. Maybe the best description is DeeAnna's post:

I've noticed a powdery texture on some of my soap loaves in the areas where the soap didn't gel -- around the ends and along the upper long edges. When cut, these areas do tend to crumble. They eventually do firm up and lose that powdery, crumbly feel, but I agree w Misschief -- it takes some weeks of curing to get there.

I saw this again recently when I was making some smaller-than-usual batches. I ended up trying an experiment -- put the loaf back in their mold and warmed it at 170 F (75 C) for an hour or so. The soap didn't fully soften and look like vaseline, like I expect to see when a soap gels. Even so, the soap became its usual firm, waxy texture that I normally expect to see in a gelled soap.

Not sure if this is what you're seeing, but just thought I'd share.

I changed two things in my procedure - I lowered the water I use (to prevent shrinking of the finished soap) from about 35% to 25-28%. The second thing I changed is soaping temperature - previously I had been soaping at about 100 F, last time I did it about 130 F.

I do not intend to put my soaps in the oven because there are essential oils. I did not notice significantly high temperature while the soap was in the mold but I haven't been all the time around the soap. I work with 5-8 % SF. I put all my recipes trough soap calc. My soap actually did not get into gel phase or I can't spot it.

Does anyone has solution or explanation of that problem. I would like to work with less water and I will continue trying to solve the problem. My plan is to soap in lower temperature. I provide pictures later if needed.

Also I would like to ask if you know any relationship between soaping temperature and lye concentration?

 

[DeeAnna]

...I lowered the water I use (to prevent shrinking of the finished soap) from about 35% to 25-28%....

When you say you "lowered the water" and then give percentages, what do you mean? Do you mean you reduced the lye concentration from 35% to 25-28%? If so, you used MORE water, not less in proportion to the fats and NaOH.

Or do you mean you reduced the "water as % of oils"? If so, then we need to have a long discussion about not using "water as % of oils" , because "water as % of oils" is useless unless you're using the exact same blend of fats from one recipe to the next. It will be more helpful to you if you start using lye concentration or water:lye ratio if you are using "water as % of oils."

Did you take my advice to "...put the loaf back in their mold and warmed it at 170 F (75 C) for an hour or so..." If so, did anything change?

Photos would be helpful.

"...relationship between soaping temperature and lye concentration?..."

There can be, but the relationship is also affected by the blend of fats, any additives, the kind of mold, and other factors. I do not think you can look at just temperature and lye concentration and draw any useful conclusions unless you expect to ONLY change those factors when you make soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

Deleted -- weird double post

 

[Baqn]

Hallo DeeAnna,

Sorry for misunderstanding. I lowered the water percentage of oils from 35 to 28. Actually that is a consequence from my intention to work with more concentrated lye solution dew to reworking the recipe. So last time I worked with 33% lye concentration compared to 25% or so previous time

I used just the same mold and recipe and essential oils. I suppose it was because of the short mixing time. I didn't get stable emulsion. Since there is less water in the mixture, there is less media for reactions. So you get less soap for emusifier. I did it again and I think I won't have that problem.

I am afraid to heat it additionally because I have already cutted it. It will lose its shape.

After days of thinking I got the idea that it is not that bad to have powdery texture. It is just not well saponified oils.
You can fix it as you say_with heating.

I will show you later.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...I am afraid to heat it additionally because I have already cutted it. It will lose its shape...."

No, it will not. Really -- it will not melt. Here is how --

Preheat your oven to the lowest temperature possible -- usually somewhere between 145-170 F (62-70 C).

Put the soap back in its mold. It makes no difference if the soap has been cut or not.

If the mold you used is not oven safe, not available, or not convenient to reuse, put the soap on a cookie sheet covered with a silicone baking sheet or parchment paper. Do not put soap directly on a metal surface.

Put the soap into the preheated oven. Let the soap warm for 1 hour or so, and then check the texture and visual appearance. It should look slightly more translucent and should feel firmer.

If you do not think the soap is quite ready, let it warm another 1/2 hour or so. I have not seen any benefits to heating the soap more than 1 to 1 1/2 hours.

The soap will not get soft nor will it look like it is in gel. In my experience, cut bars or rough peaked tops will stay fine.

If you can spare the oven, turn it off at that point and leave the soap in the oven to cool down. Otherwise, take the soap out, cover with a towel and let it cool slowly.​

 

[Cocolive]

I have several times encountered powdery textures and crumbly soap. From what I remembered, it usually because of pouring to the mold at trace which was too thin and also slow saponification process. I thought it was kinda like deep soda ash forming. In addition, I also got DOS when curing on those batches which got powdery and crumbly texture.

 

[Baqn]

Thank you DeeAnna, I will do it next time I got that problem.

 

[Dawni]

I have a soap that was powdery and crumbly when cut.. But a weird kind of powdery. If you're interested in what people's comments were, it's here. Not sure if that's how yours looks but to date it's my weirdest textured CP.