Palm oil grainy even when fully melted and mixed?

[user 46585]

So I don't know if I'm crazy or what but I've melted this new gallon of palm oil I got much hotter than melting point and mixed the heck out of it and it's still as if there is sand all in it. Yes, it's palm oil and not palm kernel oil. Yes, I melted it hot enough and mixed it enough. The grittiness is really rough on the skin and it's also visible when you look at the bar. The only time it didn't leave a soap grainy in my tests is with the batch I gelled. I normally don't prefer to gel my soaps but now I have this palm oil sitting there that's just not working out. Why won't the grittiness go away? The only thing I can think of is to attempt straining it with a cheese cloth.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Where did you get it from? Possibly you got a bad batch that was poured from the bottom of the barrel “so to speak.” Just speculating as I know unless you buy the no stir palm (which I love btw) it should be melted and stirred before using as it can separate out. Would just make sense that a supplier would have to do the same when portioning out for sale. I’m sure someone with more experience will chime in.

 

[penelopejane]

Can you post a photo?
It might be stearic spots???

 

[user 46585]

Where did you get it from? Possibly you got a bad batch that was poured from the bottom of the barrel “so to speak.” Just speculating as I know unless you buy the no stir palm (which I love btw) it should be melted and stirred before using as it can separate out. Would just make sense that a supplier would have to do the same when portioning out for sale. I’m sure someone with more experience will chime in.

I got it from Natures Garden which is normally great. Which supplier do you get your no-stir from?

Can you post a photo?
It might be stearic spots???

Natures Garden is where I got it from. I can just tilt the bar to hit the light right and see all of the grit but it's really hard to capture it on my phone camera. I tried. The more you rub on it in the water the more grittiness you find.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I got it from Natures Garden which is normally great. Which supplier do you get your no-stir from?

I bought it from Candles and Supplies. They are in Quakertown, PA Which is a little over an hour from me so I picked it up and saved on shipping. I got a 50lb Bag in a box for $54 which I thought was a pretty good price relatively. Shipping is what kills you with oils. I have been very happy with it and love that you don’t have to bother with melting and stirring. Maybe you could call them and describe what you experienced.

 

[user 46585]

I bought it from Candles and Supplies. They are in Quakertown, PA Which is a little over an hour from me so I picked it up and saved on shipping. I got a 50lb Bag in a box for $54 which I thought was a pretty good price relatively. Shipping is what kills you with oils. I have been very happy with it and love that you don’t have to bother with melting and stirring. Maybe you could call them and describe what you experienced.

Ah man, that sounds great. Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it.

 

[TheGecko]

So I don't know if I'm crazy or what but I've melted this new gallon of palm oil I got much hotter than melting point and mixed the heck out of it and it's still as if there is sand all in it.

I've had this happen. I used to purchase my Palm Oil from Brambleberry in 7lbs bags; given a 20% usage rate and that I only made one and two-pound batches once a week, a bag would last me approximately two months. Towards the end of my second bag, I noticed that the Palm Oil seemed a bit grainy so I went online and discovered that overheating (which I did because I was in a hurry) and repeated heating breaks down the oil; it causes it to undergo a series of chemical reactions like oxidation, hydrolysis and polymerization. My next bag of oil I tried to just heat it until it was like a thick slurry and then I would shake up the bag really good...or so I thought, I started having problems with steric spots. The bag after that, I got a bit smarter...I melted the bag in hot water in the sink and then poured it off into four containers.

This last time I thought I was really smart...I bought a 35 lb bucket of Palm Oil. It took me two hours to melt it down, then allow to start to cool down to a thin slurry, then fill one-gallon ziplock bags about three-quarters and then put back into the bucket after I cleaned it out. And then another hour to clean my kitchen. Never. Ever. Again. I'm already on the hunt for a 'no-stir' Palm Oil and alternatives to Palm Oil.

FYI - I used the grainy Palm Oil in an exfoliating soap.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I've had this happen. I used to purchase my Palm Oil from Brambleberry in 7lbs bags; given a 20% usage rate and that I only made one and two-pound batches once a week, a bag would last me approximately two months. Towards the end of my second bag, I noticed that the Palm Oil seemed a bit grainy so I went online and discovered that overheating (which I did because I was in a hurry) and repeated heating breaks down the oil; it causes it to undergo a series of chemical reactions like oxidation, hydrolysis and polymerization. My next bag of oil I tried to just heat it until it was like a thick slurry and then I would shake up the bag really good...or so I thought, I started having problems with steric spots. The bag after that, I got a bit smarter...I melted the bag in hot water in the sink and then poured it off into four containers.

This last time I thought I was really smart...I bought a 35 lb bucket of Palm Oil. It took me two hours to melt it down, then allow to start to cool down to a thin slurry, then fill one-gallon ziplock bags about three-quarters and then put back into the bucket after I cleaned it out. And then another hour to clean my kitchen. Never. Ever. Again. I'm already on the hunt for a 'no-stir' Palm Oil and alternatives to Palm Oil.

FYI - I used the grainy Palm Oil in an exfoliating soap.

This is why I love this forum. This is why I right off the bat bought the no stir Palm. I read about everyones experiences and decided I wanted a large quantity and thought no way I am melting that stuff down and stirring each time I use it! I use it in some percentage in most of my soap. I’ve gone through about half in the 5 months since I bought it. I highly recommend it!

 

[linne1gi]

I've had this happen. I used to purchase my Palm Oil from Brambleberry in 7lbs bags; given a 20% usage rate and that I only made one and two-pound batches once a week, a bag would last me approximately two months. Towards the end of my second bag, I noticed that the Palm Oil seemed a bit grainy so I went online and discovered that overheating (which I did because I was in a hurry) and repeated heating breaks down the oil; it causes it to undergo a series of chemical reactions like oxidation, hydrolysis and polymerization. My next bag of oil I tried to just heat it until it was like a thick slurry and then I would shake up the bag really good...or so I thought, I started having problems with steric spots. The bag after that, I got a bit smarter...I melted the bag in hot water in the sink and then poured it off into four containers.

This last time I thought I was really smart...I bought a 35 lb bucket of Palm Oil. It took me two hours to melt it down, then allow to start to cool down to a thin slurry, then fill one-gallon ziplock bags about three-quarters and then put back into the bucket after I cleaned it out. And then another hour to clean my kitchen. Never. Ever. Again. I'm already on the hunt for a 'no-stir' Palm Oil and alternatives to Palm Oil.

FYI - I used the grainy Palm Oil in an exfoliating soap.

I buy my RSPO palm oil at WSP - Wholesale Supplies Plus.

 

[TheGecko]

This is why I love this forum. This is why I right off the bat bought the no stir Palm. I read about everyones experiences and decided I wanted a large quantity and thought no way I am melting that stuff down and stirring each time I use it! I use it in some percentage in most of my soap. I’ve gone through about half in the 5 months since I bought it. I highly recommend it!

Didn't know about this place until I fried my GMS and it came up in a Google search. And it wasn't until I had been soaping for 6 months that I ran across a soaper on YouTube who mentioned 'no-stir' PO, but I don't like just ordering one ingredient from a supplier unless it's an emergency.

 

[sarahmarah]

Is palm an oil that benefits from tempering? Maybe try that? Just spitballing here as I don’t know how palm behaves.

 

[cmzaha]

When I ordered 5-gallon buckets of palm oil I never melted it down. I would scoop from different areas of the bucket when measuring for my soap batch. I only melted my palm when ready to soap and never had a problem with my palm using it this way. I switched to Palm Shortening when I found it at Smart & Final in 50lb cubes for $38 approx. It is the no-stir type palm. Some restaurant supply stores carry palm shortening.

 

[user 46585]

I've had this happen. I used to purchase my Palm Oil from Brambleberry in 7lbs bags; given a 20% usage rate and that I only made one and two-pound batches once a week, a bag would last me approximately two months. Towards the end of my second bag, I noticed that the Palm Oil seemed a bit grainy so I went online and discovered that overheating (which I did because I was in a hurry) and repeated heating breaks down the oil; it causes it to undergo a series of chemical reactions like oxidation, hydrolysis and polymerization. My next bag of oil I tried to just heat it until it was like a thick slurry and then I would shake up the bag really good...or so I thought, I started having problems with steric spots. The bag after that, I got a bit smarter...I melted the bag in hot water in the sink and then poured it off into four containers.

This last time I thought I was really smart...I bought a 35 lb bucket of Palm Oil. It took me two hours to melt it down, then allow to start to cool down to a thin slurry, then fill one-gallon ziplock bags about three-quarters and then put back into the bucket after I cleaned it out. And then another hour to clean my kitchen. Never. Ever. Again. I'm already on the hunt for a 'no-stir' Palm Oil and alternatives to Palm Oil.

FYI - I used the grainy Palm Oil in an exfoliating soap.

Wow, that sure sounds like a journey lol. I totally didn't even consider the fact that I could be messing things up with repetitive heating but it totally makes sense for it to mess the oil up to a degree. Using the grainy palm oil in an exfoliating soap definitely seems like a nice idea to use up what I have left.

Is palm an oil that benefits from tempering? Maybe try that? Just spitballing here as I don’t know how palm behaves.

That's a good question, actually. I'll have to look into that as I've never heard of tempering palm oil before and I wonder if there would be an improvement.

When I ordered 5-gallon buckets of palm oil I never melted it down. I would scoop from different areas of the bucket when measuring for my soap batch. I only melted my palm when ready to soap and never had a problem with my palm using it this way. I switched to Palm Shortening when I found it at Smart & Final in 50lb cubes for $38 approx. It is the no-stir type palm. Some restaurant supply stores carry palm shortening.

Oh nice, 50lbs for $38. I'm definitely going to look into getting some no-stir palm.

 

[shunt2011]

Palm oil doesn't need tempering. I've used regular palm and now use no stir palm. Like cmzaha, I never melted the entire bucket, just went from different spots and went as deep as I could. The only time I had to melt it was getting it in 1lb bottles which was the dumbest thing ever to package it in .

 

[Jersey Girl]

When I ordered 5-gallon buckets of palm oil I never melted it down. I would scoop from different areas of the bucket when measuring for my soap batch. I only melted my palm when ready to soap and never had a problem with my palm using it this way. I switched to Palm Shortening when I found it at Smart & Final in 50lb cubes for $38 approx. It is the no-stir type palm. Some restaurant supply stores carry palm shortening.

I wish we had a Smart and Final around here. That’s a terrific price!

 

[Jersey Girl]

Didn't know about this place until I fried my GMS and it came up in a Google search. And it wasn't until I had been soaping for 6 months that I ran across a soaper on YouTube who mentioned 'no-stir' PO, but I don't like just ordering one ingredient from a supplier unless it's an emergency.

Their prices are pretty good for some things but not so great for other things. I guess like all the other suppliers. There are no reviews on their website for FO and no data on testing or usage rate that I could see on their site, but I did like that I could sniff the samples in the store when I was there. I’ve only gotten a few from them when I first started out and they turned out well and still have scent after 5 months. Unfortunately Their website isn’t great. They have more in the store than is listed on the site. Its just nice to have a place relatively close by that I can physically go to once in a while. I much prefer buying things in person if possible.

 

[MGM]

I don't have access to no-stir and I don't work in such big quantities, but I have twice done a pail of 7lb. It fits easily in the oven, set to low, and in an hour, it's ready for a stir and decanting into mason jars. If I were buying in 50lb quantities though, I might be more drawn to no-stir ;-)

 

[TheGecko]

Their prices are pretty good for some things but not so great for other things. I guess like all the other suppliers. There are no reviews on their website for FO and no data on testing or usage rate that I could see on their site, but I did like that I could sniff the samples in the store when I was there. I’ve only gotten a few from them when I first started out and they turned out well and still have scent after 5 months. Unfortunately Their website isn’t great. They have more in the store than is listed on the site. Its just nice to have a place relatively close by that I can physically go to once in a while. I much prefer buying things in person if possible.

I recently located a somewhat local vendor and it's the same. They too have a storefront and 'will call'...which is great, but their hours leave a lot to be desired...basically the same as my work hours and they aren't open on Saturday. I get paid next Monday and was planning on putting in a large order and then taking off work a half hour early and picking it up, but then I saw at the bottom of their website that "all sales are final" so instead, I will take off an hour so I can go into the shop and take a look before I buy; I am buying in bulk I don't want to get stuck with product I don't like and then have to order from someone with shipping.

I also decided to go ahead last night and put in a 5lb order for the 'no-stir' PO at Elements Bath & Body. Their shipping isn't too bad and I found a few other things I could use, some on sale. A couple of square cavity molds, some scoops, 2oz of a FO that sounds nice and some clays. I like using clays and oxides when I want some special effects...like I made some soap with an Apple Cinnamon FO and I added a bit of Brown Oxide in dry...so it would speckle just a bit.

It's the shipping that kills me. I wanted to buy a single, 16oz bottle of Dragon's Blood FO from Wellington Fragrance. $23.25 for the FO, $13.95 for USPS Priority Mail AND $5.00 Service Charge for my order being less than $50.00. I dislike Service Charges, but it would cost me more in the long to try and save $5.00. And while WF does sell high quality FOs, there is no middle ground with them. You can purchase a 1/2 oz trial size...which is great, but then the next size is 8 oz!

 

[cmzaha]

Unless your palm is packaged in a container you cannot scoop from I do not understand melting down the entire container. If it comes on one of the spouted plastic bags such as BB uses just cut the bag and scoop the palm out. You do not need to meltdown palm in order to use it. If you see some stearic on top which can happen if palm melts on its own in the summer you can scoop off some while scooping out your palm for your batch, or if your palm is soft enough just mix it up the best you can. It will show up as a white layer, almost powdery looking if your palm has melted and solidified due to hot weather. I have used palm oil since I started making soap always doing it this way without effecting my soap.
I never had the time, space for storage nor the patience to melt down, pour off, and package 5 gallons of palm oil. It also sounds like melting and remelting palm oil does more damage to the oil. My soap has never had that type of graininess and I use up to 40% palm. I may get a few stearic specks at times, not always, and simply do not worry about them since they are not grainy. For some reason, it took me several years to realize Palm shortening was the no-stir version. Duh...

 

[user 46585]

Unless your palm is packaged in a container you cannot scoop from I do not understand melting down the entire container. If it comes on one of the spouted plastic bags such as BB uses just cut the bag and scoop the palm out. You do not need to meltdown palm in order to use it. If you see some stearic on top which can happen if palm melts on its own in the summer you can scoop off some while scooping out your palm for your batch, or if your palm is soft enough just mix it up the best you can. It will show up as a white layer, almost powdery looking if your palm has melted and solidified due to hot weather. I have used palm oil since I started making soap always doing it this way without effecting my soap.
I never had the time, space for storage nor the patience to melt down, pour off, and package 5 gallons of palm oil. It also sounds like melting and remelting palm oil does more damage to the oil. My soap has never had that type of graininess and I use up to 40% palm. I may get a few stearic specks at times, not always, and simply do not worry about them since they are not grainy. For some reason, it took me several years to realize Palm shortening was the no-stir version. Duh...

The container is the kind that can't be scooped but only poured from, unfortunately. The only way to get it out is to melt it. I really have no idea why it's so grainy. Imagine taking oil and then throwing sand into it and that's exactly what it looks and feels like. It happens in all recipes I've tried with it including unscented and uncolored soap with just olive oil, coconut oil, and palm oil. As soon as I remove the palm oil from a recipe the sandiness is gone. If it's not a stearic acid problem what would you think it is?