Natural Colorants That Last?

[Jersey Girl]

I saw this on a Facebook group. Took a screenshot. This woman apparently has written a book on natural colorants. Has anyone read it? She has pictured soaps that are over a year old and one 2.5yrs old that still are vibrant. All the experiments I’ve seen here show conflicting results as far as natural colors staying true for long periods. How does she do this?

 

[paradisi]

There's no magic. She keeps them in the dark. Left out on your bathroom counter, they fade just like everyone else's. She's found some pretty colors though even if they are fugitive.

 

[Dawni]

Annatto and indigo do stick for me. I have soaps with both posted around the forum that are going to be a year in November for annatto, and 16 months for two different indigos.

I have a spirulina that has lightened but still noticeably green after about 18 months as well.

That being said. I don't know how hers stay vibrant. Mine stay, but not vibrant. I follow her on Instagram and her article on natural colorants in modern Soapmaking was it (?) was the first I came across when I went looking

 

[GemstonePony]

I'm not saying that it's filtered or photo-shopped slightly, but I'm not seeing any claims that it isn't. To be fair, with most of my traditional art that I scan to make digital, I frequently retouch it so the scan appears the way the picture does, and she may have done something similar.
But also, the reason I have have a growing collection of shiny lab rocks (Mica) is because I'm too lazy to try to get biodegradably-sourced colorants to not bio-degrade. I'm pretty sure to pull that off, you have to have a curing darkroom. Which is possible, but takes dedication.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I'm not saying that it's filtered or photo-shopped slightly, but I'm not seeing any claims that it isn't. To be fair, with most of my traditional art that I scan to make digital, I frequently retouch it so the scan appears the way the picture does, and she may have done something similar.
But also, the reason I have have a growing collection of shiny lab rocks (Mica) is because I'm too lazy to try to get biodegradably-sourced colorants to not bio-degrade. I'm pretty sure to pull that off, you have to have a curing darkroom. Which is possible, but takes dedication.

Lol...I have that same rock collection!

 

[Relle]

Why don't you pm her and ask directly. You need to know how much is added ppo and how it is stored.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

She mentioned that she used zinc oxide. Technically mica colored with oxides can be natural too.

 

[KimW]

I'm wondering if the zinc oxide is lending itself to brighten the soap like it does to some paint pigments? Also agreeing and wondering if there was a bit of "enhancing" of the photo. I do this with pics of what I consider bright objects, like delicious fresh tomatoes, and sometimes those pics look very different on other screens.

hmmmmm - so if you look at her video from a recent trade show, the colors of the soaps on the table are much more muted. You can also see her catalogue towards the end of the video with much more vibrant colors, so it's not the video or lighting quality. I'm not saying she unfairly retouched her photos, but I think some enhancing with light or digital filters was done. Still, her soaps are very pretty for naturally colored soaps!

 

[Jersey Girl]

hmmmmm - so if you look at her video from a recent trade show, the colors of the soaps on the table are much more muted. You can also see her catalogue towards the end of the video with much more vibrant colors, so it's not the video or lighting quality. I'm not saying she unfairly retouched her photos, but I think some enhancing with light or digital filters was done. Still, her soaps are very pretty for naturally colored soaps!

Interesting!

Why don't you pm her and ask directly. You need to know how much is added ppo and how it is stored.

I think we already know the answer to this. I trust this forum and the research and experiments members have done over someone who wants to sell a book. And after seeing that video...nuff said. From what I’ve seen, most natural colorants don’t last very long unless you’re storing them in the bat cave...

 

[sarahmarah]

Oh those are so pretty.
I wish I had the drive to experiment with natural colors. I like indigo and colored clays but that’s sort of where my interest wanes.

 

[AliOop]

I have this e-book, which says outright that the colors will fade with time if not stored away from light. So there is no dishonesty here. FWIW, a lot of YouTube soapers show naturally-colored soaps, and they don't offer any disclaimers about fading.

The book was very, very helpful to me as far as explaining different ways to add the colorants (infusion, at trace, in lye solution). I didn't always get the same results as she did, but then, I didn't use the recipe she provides in the book, either.

Jo is very generous with her knowledge and has always responded to questions from those who buy her book. I believe she is also a member of this forum. She doesn't come across to me as someone who would retouch her photos to make sales based on false pretenses. If that were the case, she would have retouched the soaps in the video, too.

 

[curlycoat2]

I have this e-book, which says outright that the colors will fade with time if not stored away from light. So there is no dishonesty here. FWIW, a lot of YouTube soapers show naturally-colored soaps, and they don't offer any disclaimers about fading.

The book was very, very helpful to me as far as explaining different ways to add the colorants (infusion, at trace, in lye solution). I didn't always get the same results as she did, but then, I didn't use the recipe she provides in the book, either.

Jo is very generous with her knowledge and has always responded to questions from those who buy her book. I believe she is also a member of this forum. She doesn't come across to me as someone who would retouch her photos to make sales based on false pretenses. If that were the case, she would have retouched the soaps in the video, too.

Thank you so much for your support, I am very grateful to you

@Jersey Girl the photos are taken on an iPhone 5 and I dont own any photoshopping programs nor do I even know how to use them. What you see is what you get. The book was printed at a local printer to take to the Lost Trades Artisan fair and the colors are not as the soap is in real life. I am not out to sell my book, if people are interested they are welcome to buy it, if not I have provided plenty of free blog posts on both Modern Soapmaking and Lovinsoap and I was one of the original founders of SNIF on FB where the great majority of my information was shared gladly and for free. I am sure you or anyone else would spend way more than $20 on testing just woad alone so I thought by sharing how I achieved it I would help cut other people's costs and time. The "rock collection" is from the back of my old axylotyl aquarium hahaha

@paradisi, nice to see you after such a long time Judy. I am sure you know that I am not a photoshop person and am as honest as the day is long. You were very generous sharing knowledge with me when we were on the Dish and friends. I hope you are well

@Todd Ziegler I dont use zinc oxide anymore and I haven't used any mica, oxides, clays or ultramarines for over a decade. I ONLY use plants for color in my cold process soap for the record I did use micas when I made mp as Paradisi can vouch

@Relle, thank you I am very happy to answer pm's from people if they have questions

@KimW no enhancement made - I dont know how

All tips and tricks are keep the soap in the dark, with air, start brighter than you want to finish, use the plant in the way it likes to release its color best and use good quailty plants and oils to begin with.

No mystery here, just bloody hard work, lots of money spent and a great deal of time and note taking.

Happy to answer questions and yes I still have my iPhone 5 for my photos

Oh those are so pretty.
I wish I had the drive to experiment with natural colors. I like indigo and colored clays but that’s sort of where my interest wanes.

everyone should make soap how they want to, its what makes soap so interesting and one of a kind and very very beautiful

 

[Hermit]

Yeah, the iphone 5 was one of the first phones that had sensors to detect what type of ambient light is in the room, and multiple flashes that cover different portions of the light spectrum to compensate for the whatever the ambient light is doing to the actual colours in the room.

So the pictures taken with it have very accurate colour and don't need to be corrected.

(The point of photo editing when done properly is to correct the distortion created by the faulty technology.)

 

[curlycoat2]

Yeah, the iphone 5 was one of the first phones that had sensors to detect what type of ambient light is in the room, and multiple flashes that cover different portions of the light spectrum to compensate for the whatever the ambient light is doing to the actual colours in the room.

So the pictures taken with it have very accurate colour and don't need to be corrected.

(The point of photo editing when done properly is to correct the distortion created by the faulty technology.)

Honestly the phone is small and handy to take into the garden with me to take photos of soap and as I dont know how to edit photos it makes this side of making easy for me. I also didn't know that it had the sensors so thanks for letting me know how it actually works

much appreciated

 

[Vicki C]

Thank you so much for your support, I am very grateful to you

@Jersey Girl the photos are taken on an iPhone 5 and I dont own any photoshopping programs nor do I even know how to use them. What you see is what you get. The book was printed at a local printer to take to the Lost Trades Artisan fair and the colors are not as the soap is in real life. I am not out to sell my book, if people are interested they are welcome to buy it, if not I have provided plenty of free blog posts on both Modern Soapmaking and Lovinsoap and I was one of the original founders of SNIF on FB where the great majority of my information was shared gladly and for free. I am sure you or anyone else would spend way more than $20 on testing just woad alone so I thought by sharing how I achieved it I would help cut other people's costs and time. The "rock collection" is from the back of my old axylotyl aquarium hahaha

@paradisi, nice to see you after such a long time Judy. I am sure you know that I am not a photoshop person and am as honest as the day is long. You were very generous sharing knowledge with me when we were on the Dish and friends. I hope you are well

@Todd Ziegler I dont use zinc oxide anymore and I haven't used any mica, oxides, clays or ultramarines for over a decade. I ONLY use plants for color in my cold process soap for the record I did use micas when I made mp as Paradisi can vouch

@Relle, thank you I am very happy to answer pm's from people if they have questions

@KimW no enhancement made - I dont know how

All tips and tricks are keep the soap in the dark, with air, start brighter than you want to finish, use the plant in the way it likes to release its color best and use good quailty plants and oils to begin with.

No mystery here, just bloody hard work, lots of money spent and a great deal of time and note taking.

Happy to answer questions and yes I still have my iPhone 5 for my photos


everyone should make soap how they want to, its what makes soap so interesting and one of a kind and very very beautiful

Thanks for all that Jo! I’ve been having great fun with infusions lately. Others will not agree but I find them MORE predictable than micas. “Plant Magic” is fabulous.
I found a book about food colorants - has some good info on pigments - called “Handbook on Natural Pigments in Food and Beverages” - hard copies are $$$ but I was able to download it for free somehow, hopefully didn’t sell my soul to the devil in the process.

 

[HandmadeinFlorida]

Thank you so much for your support, I am very grateful to you

@Jersey Girl the photos are taken on an iPhone 5 and I dont own any photoshopping programs nor do I even know how to use them. What you see is what you get. The book was printed at a local printer to take to the Lost Trades Artisan fair and the colors are not as the soap is in real life. I am not out to sell my book, if people are interested they are welcome to buy it, if not I have provided plenty of free blog posts on both Modern Soapmaking and Lovinsoap and I was one of the original founders of SNIF on FB where the great majority of my information was shared gladly and for free. I am sure you or anyone else would spend way more than $20 on testing just woad alone so I thought by sharing how I achieved it I would help cut other people's costs and time. The "rock collection" is from the back of my old axylotyl aquarium hahaha

@paradisi, nice to see you after such a long time Judy. I am sure you know that I am not a photoshop person and am as honest as the day is long. You were very generous sharing knowledge with me when we were on the Dish and friends. I hope you are well

@Todd Ziegler I dont use zinc oxide anymore and I haven't used any mica, oxides, clays or ultramarines for over a decade. I ONLY use plants for color in my cold process soap for the record I did use micas when I made mp as Paradisi can vouch

@Relle, thank you I am very happy to answer pm's from people if they have questions

@KimW no enhancement made - I dont know how

All tips and tricks are keep the soap in the dark, with air, start brighter than you want to finish, use the plant in the way it likes to release its color best and use good quailty plants and oils to begin with.

No mystery here, just bloody hard work, lots of money spent and a great deal of time and note taking.

Happy to answer questions and yes I still have my iPhone 5 for my photos


everyone should make soap how they want to, its what makes soap so interesting and one of a kind and very very beautiful

Jo, you’re a Saint on so many levels. First for sharing your knowledge w us countless times, and secondly, for entertaining all this…unbelievable. I don’t know how you keep your cool.

You have a background in chemistry, studied plants for decades, compiled a ton of data, given it away countless times in blog posts, conferences, magazines, and two books, yet are still managing to remain calm and justify your work.

I’ve known you for years, and unlike many in this business, you are nothing but kind and honest.

For those who want to hyperanalyze whether or not an iphone 5 does the magic, photoshop, or plants, why not shell out the $20 or just do some random testing yourself (it will cost a lot more than $20 for sure).

Jo, no need to justify anything. Those who know you, KNOW.

 

[LisaBoBisa]

Thank you so much for your support, I am very grateful to you

@Jersey Girl the photos are taken on an iPhone 5 and I dont own any photoshopping programs nor do I even know how to use them. What you see is what you get. The book was printed at a local printer to take to the Lost Trades Artisan fair and the colors are not as the soap is in real life. I am not out to sell my book, if people are interested they are welcome to buy it, if not I have provided plenty of free blog posts on both Modern Soapmaking and Lovinsoap and I was one of the original founders of SNIF on FB where the great majority of my information was shared gladly and for free. I am sure you or anyone else would spend way more than $20 on testing just woad alone so I thought by sharing how I achieved it I would help cut other people's costs and time. The "rock collection" is from the back of my old axylotyl aquarium hahaha

@paradisi, nice to see you after such a long time Judy. I am sure you know that I am not a photoshop person and am as honest as the day is long. You were very generous sharing knowledge with me when we were on the Dish and friends. I hope you are well

@Todd Ziegler I dont use zinc oxide anymore and I haven't used any mica, oxides, clays or ultramarines for over a decade. I ONLY use plants for color in my cold process soap for the record I did use micas when I made mp as Paradisi can vouch

@Relle, thank you I am very happy to answer pm's from people if they have questions

@KimW no enhancement made - I dont know how

All tips and tricks are keep the soap in the dark, with air, start brighter than you want to finish, use the plant in the way it likes to release its color best and use good quailty plants and oils to begin with.

No mystery here, just bloody hard work, lots of money spent and a great deal of time and note taking.

Happy to answer questions and yes I still have my iPhone 5 for my photos


everyone should make soap how they want to, its what makes soap so interesting and one of a kind and very very beautiful

Thanks for being so gracious - book really does look helpful. You have at least one new customer out of this thread!

 

[curlycoat2]

Thanks for all that Jo! I’ve been having great fun with infusions lately. Others will not agree but I find them MORE predictable than micas. “Plant Magic” is fabulous.
I found a book about food colorants - has some good info on pigments - called “Handbook on Natural Pigments in Food and Beverages” - hard copies are $$$ but I was able to download it for free somehow, hopefully didn’t sell my soul to the devil in the process.

Awesome you have found more on using natural pigments! The more the merrier and we will give those mica a run for their money!

Jo, you’re a Saint on so many levels. First for sharing your knowledge w us countless times, and secondly, for entertaining all this…unbelievable. I don’t know how you keep your cool.

You have a background in chemistry, studied plants for decades, compiled a ton of data, given it away countless times in blog posts, conferences, magazines, and two books, yet are still managing to remain calm and justify your work.

I’ve known you for years, and unlike many in this business, you are nothing but kind and honest.

For those who want to hyperanalyze whether or not an iphone 5 does the magic, photoshop, or plants, why not shell out the $20 or just do some random testing yourself (it will cost a lot more than $20 for sure).

Jo, no need to justify anything. Those who know you, KNOW.

OMG I adore you, absolutely adore you xx

Thanks for being so gracious - book really does look helpful. You have at least one new customer out of this thread!

Thank you but the intention was not to have new customers it was to set the record straight with people that have judged and decided that I edit my photos when in fact I am nothing but honest and make a point to be so. Fading with plant colorants is the compromise for knowing that you are using a natural product. If it doesnt fade eventually even with keeping it in the dark and all I mentioned above then the plant has been adulterated in some way .