My soap is turning orange right out of the mold!

[meepocow]

Hi Soapmakers!

I've been really enjoying making my own cold process shampoo bars, and find that they just are wonderful for my hair. My hair felt so light and bouncy after the first wash, I couldn't believe it! I do use a very dilute apple cider vinegar wash, but haven't had to use conditioner in months!

After that test batch, I made a full 12-puck batch so I could share with friends and family. While they firmed up nicely over 2 days, unmolded easily, and still function well as shampoo, sadly many of them developed orange spots/ patches right of the mold! I've never had orange spots on my other (non-shampoo) bars even after weeks of curing, and the usual culprits aren't there for this batch either (I'm using new oils, no exposure to metal, clean setup, not loading it with tons of organic additives, keeping superfat under 5%, etc.). The only thing I can think of is that the recipe I'm following, adapted from Lizard Lady's recipe, uses a high percentage of canola oil (this website suggests to keep oils like canola under 15%) while my other recipes do not use canola oil.

Wondering if anyone has ideas, because I don't think this could be DOS right out of the mold and I've controlled for the other factors. Thus far I haven't been adding any colourants, but would you suggest I just add a touch of pink/ green clay to cover up some of that orange? Thank you for your ideas!!

 

[Obsidian]

Are you adding extra lye to account for the vinegar and citric acid? What color is your mold? Personally, I would swap out the canola with sunflower, I have bad luck with canola and have had DOS start after just a few days. I don't think that is DOS but its worth experimenting.
If swapping oils doesn't help, try omitting the vinegar.

 

[Servant4Christ]

I agree, that doesn't look like DOS, particularly that top one on the right. That said, the only times I ever experienced DOS was in soap made with canola in the recipe.

 

[Kari Howie]

Here are my thoughts after scratching my head:
-Did you use anything other than distilled water for your liquid? For example something that could’ve scorched, e.g. goat milk?
-Also you said you didn’t load it with a ton of organics. Does that mean you did use some? Most organic material turns brown and can leave a discolored halo around it.
-Is it possible one of your oils was old, past it’s prime, or even rancid?
-Finally, I see they are sitting on some kind of paper in what appear to be metal wire baskets. I don’t know how permeable the paper is, but it might not be an adequate barrier.

 

[Misschief]

What kind of molds are you using? My first thought was discolouration from the molds, if your molds are red silicone.

 

[cmzaha]

Hi Soapmakers!

I've been really enjoying making my own cold process shampoo bars, and find that they just are wonderful for my hair. My hair felt so light and bouncy after the first wash, I couldn't believe it! I do use a very dilute apple cider vinegar wash, but haven't had to use conditioner in months!

After that test batch, I made a full 12-puck batch so I could share with friends and family. While they firmed up nicely over 2 days, unmolded easily, and still function well as shampoo, sadly many of them developed orange spots/ patches right of the mold! I've never had orange spots on my other (non-shampoo) bars even after weeks of curing, and the usual culprits aren't there for this batch either (I'm using new oils, no exposure to metal, clean setup, not loading it with tons of organic additives, keeping superfat under 5%, etc.). The only thing I can think of is that the recipe I'm following, adapted from Lizard Lady's recipe, uses a high percentage of canola oil (this website suggests to keep oils like canola under 15%) while my other recipes do not use canola oil.

Wondering if anyone has ideas, because I don't think this could be DOS right out of the mold and I've controlled for the other factors. Thus far I haven't been adding any colourants, but would you suggest I just add a touch of pink/ green clay to cover up some of that orange? Thank you for your ideas!!

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First I will address the use of cider vinegar as a full water replacement, and adding citric with it. Citric acid is not necessary when using vinegar but regardless you much compensate with the extra required NaOh to turn the vinegar into Sodium Acetate otherwise you have just upped your super fat by several percent. Sorry, I do not remember the exact number. The multiplier for configuring the extra lye is simply your total vinegar usage is 0.0357 and I would highly recommend using distilled vinegar, not apple cider vinegar since it is clear. I make all my soaps with vinegar as 50-100% of my water replacement. FYI it does not work the same as a vinegar rinse after using the bar for washing your hair.

Another little tidbit and real red flag of mine, being a retired cosmetologist, I would not give away soap to friends and family for use on hair, as it can destroy hair over time. But your choice. Especially folks with long gorgeous hair, that they do not want to cut off. But that is another whole argument. Shampoo was invented for a reason...

I love Canola oil in soap but would not use regular Canola over 20% otherwise use HO Canola, you are definitely subjecting yourself to DOS with 50% regular Canola.

 

[meepocow]

Here are my thoughts after scratching my head:
-Did you use anything other than distilled water for your liquid? For example something that could’ve scorched, e.g. goat milk?
-Also you said you didn’t load it with a ton of organics. Does that mean you did use some? Most organic material turns brown and can leave a discolored halo around it.
-Is it possible one of your oils was old, past it’s prime, or even rancid?
-Finally, I see they are sitting on some kind of paper in what appear to be metal wire baskets. I don’t know how permeable the paper is, but it might not be an adequate barrier.

I replaced the distilled water with apple cider vinegar. No organics were included, other than the oils for the formula. All of the oils were well within their expiry dates, and have only been stored in cool dark environment. And the paper is parchment paper, over coated wire baskets. I haven't seen any discolouration on any of my other soaps, even white ones, after the cure.

What kind of molds are you using? My first thought was discolouration from the molds, if your molds are red silicone.

This is.. too freaky lol! My molds are indeed red silicone. Would you advise trying in another mold? My other ones are the purple/ pink silicone molds from Amazon, inside the wood support box.

First I will address the use of cider vinegar as a full water replacement, and adding citric with it. Citric acid is not necessary when using vinegar but regardless you much compensate with the extra required NaOh to turn the vinegar into Sodium Acetate otherwise you have just upped your super fat by several percent. Sorry, I do not remember the exact number. The multiplier for configuring the extra lye is simply your total vinegar usage is 0.0357 and I would highly recommend using distilled vinegar, not apple cider vinegar since it is clear. I make all my soaps with vinegar as 50-100% of my water replacement. FYI it does not work the same as a vinegar rinse after using the bar for washing your hair.

Another little tidbit and real red flag of mine, being a retired cosmetologist, I would not give away soap to friends and family for use on hair, as it can destroy hair over time. But your choice. Especially folks with long gorgeous hair, that they do not want to cut off. But that is another whole argument. Shampoo was invented for a reason...

I love Canola oil in soap but would not use regular Canola over 20% otherwise use HO Canola, you are definitely subjecting yourself to DOS with 50% regular Canola.

Thanks for all the tips! I'll have to do a bit more research. I'll have to lower the canola oil, and I think I'll just switch back to using distilled water.

Appreciate your feedback!

 

[Misschief]

This is.. too freaky lol! My molds are indeed red silicone. Would you advise trying in another mold? My other ones are the purple/ pink silicone molds from Amazon, inside the wood support box.

I don't consider it a major issue, more of a cosmetic issue. It is something to be aware of, though.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I don't consider it a major issue, more of a cosmetic issue. It is something to be aware of, though.

I have had this happen with my red silicone mold, but just a specific one - other red molds are fine. However, the discolouration was evenly distributed across the entire surface of the soap, not patchy like yours.

 

[penelopejane]

I replaced the distilled water with apple cider vinegar. No organics were included, other than the oils for the formula. All of the oils were well within their expiry dates, and have only been stored in cool dark environment. And the paper is parchment paper, over coated wire baskets. I haven't seen any discolouration on any of my other soaps, even white ones, after the cure.

Perhaps this isn't DOS in this instance but even if the metal is coated and you use a tea towel over the metal it can still cause DOS in future. It's really annoying but if I were you I would seriously consider a different cure/storage material.